Things that can improve the tournament

[Titan32]

Fix the P/P problem with a system similar to Iowa.

 

2023-24-Football-Classifications-8.9.23.pdf

[PHJIrish]

Deja vu all over again.  The annual P/P debate.

And I was not calling for WNDY to televise the semi-state and the finals.  It's sad that there isn't enough civic pride for someone to step up and present IHSAA state finals to the entire state.  

[Daniel_Bragg]

4 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

Deja vu all over again.  The annual P/P debate.

And I was not calling for WNDY to televise the semi-state and the finals.  It's sad that there isn't enough civic pride for someone to step up and present IHSAA state finals to the entire state.  

Again, none of this happens for free.  As it is, streaming is the best way to get it to the entire state.  I don't believe any network in Indiana actually covers the ENTIRE state.  If so, they'd have to be something like FOX59 or WTHR.  To ask them to broadcast the high school semi-state and state finals would mean having them ignore their network commitments, as FOX and NBC affiliates.  That's just not a realistic ask.

[BDGiant93]

14 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

Deja vu all over again.  The annual P/P debate.

And I was not calling for WNDY to televise the semi-state and the finals.  It's sad that there isn't enough civic pride for someone to step up and present IHSAA state finals to the entire state.  

DuJuan McCoy (WNDY owner and Ben Davis alum) has been great for high school sports through his stations, but he has to have dance partners willing to carry the game in all of the state's TV markets. He doesn't own stations all over the state. You're not dealing with mom & pop organizations like you did a long time ago. You're dealing with major corporations who have no civic pride because they are based in other states. DuJuan is a unicorn for local ownership of TV stations now. Radio is a bit different, but that's changing too.

[tango]

10 hours ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

Again, none of this happens for free.  As it is, streaming is the best way to get it to the entire state.  I don't believe any network in Indiana actually covers the ENTIRE state.  If so, they'd have to be something like FOX59 or WTHR.  To ask them to broadcast the high school semi-state and state finals would mean having them ignore their network commitments, as FOX and NBC affiliates.  That's just not a realistic ask.

Streaming is clearly the most effective way to reach not only the entire state, but all across the US for fans and relatives who don't live in Indiana. And frankly, even paying a $15-$20 charge is much cheaper than attending in person, especially if a group is watching together.  

[PHJIrish]

24 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

DuJuan McCoy (WNDY owner and Ben Davis alum) has been great for high school sports through his stations, but he has to have dance partners willing to carry the game in all of the state's TV markets. He doesn't own stations all over the state. You're not dealing with mom & pop organizations like you did a long time ago. You're dealing with major corporations who have no civic pride because they are based in other states. DuJuan is a unicorn for local ownership of TV stations now. Radio is a bit different, but that's changing too.

Oh, I totally agree!  Civic pride seems to have moved on.  We are now a money driven society.

10 hours ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

Again, none of this happens for free.  As it is, streaming is the best way to get it to the entire state.  I don't believe any network in Indiana actually covers the ENTIRE state.  If so, they'd have to be something like FOX59 or WTHR.  To ask them to broadcast the high school semi-state and state finals would mean having them ignore their network commitments, as FOX and NBC affiliates.  That's just not a realistic ask.

Your post has proven my point.  

[Hudson]

Sectional travel is fine. There are a few long distances, but it's a blind draw so live with it early in the tournament. In regionals and semi-state however, neutral sites should be used if distance is over a certain amount. 2.5-3 hours for a 7:00 game is simply undoable for lots of people who would like to attend. If it requires early dismissal to get to a game site with adequate time to dress, warm up, etc. then it should be neutral at an agreed upon site. 

 

[Daniel_Bragg]

2 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

Oh, I totally agree!  Civic pride seems to have moved on.  We are now a money driven society.

Your post has proven my point.  

My point is that to ask a television station to have civic pride when broadcasting costs hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars is an unrealistic ask.  Meanwhile, I can stream games to the whole world for a few hundred dollars, maybe.  My streams are free for the reason you cite: civic pride.  However, I don't have towers to pay for, crews to pay full-time salaries to, benefits, etc.  Believe me, I wish a station would carry the State Final games for free to view, but it's just not the world we live in anymore.

[crimsonace1]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

My point is that to ask a television station to have civic pride when broadcasting costs hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars is an unrealistic ask.  Meanwhile, I can stream games to the whole world for a few hundred dollars, maybe.  My streams are free for the reason you cite: civic pride.  However, I don't have towers to pay for, crews to pay full-time salaries to, benefits, etc.  Believe me, I wish a station would carry the State Final games for free to view, but it's just not the world we live in anymore.

There are channels available (WNDY & the digital subchannels) who don't have network commitments, *but* the way things work these days is a little different than in the past. 

In the 1980s, there were true independent stations, like WTTV, who had a lot of time and there was a major sponsor in Farm Bureau who would pay for it. Back then, the station paid the IHSAA for the rights, produced the broadcasts and kept the advertising revenue. The basketball tournament was so popular and drew such large ratings into the 1980s, it was lucrative. By the 1990s, interest in basketball began to fall off. In football, only the large-school game was televised. 

Even then, the only things that were televised statewide on the network were the boys & girls basketball State Finals, the large-school football title game (only the largest class was televised for many, many years) and, sometimes, the baseball championship game. WTTV would independently produce the Hinkle sectional and regional title games, and then broadcast the Hinkle semistate. But again, that was an era before the NCAA Tournament sucked all the air out of the room and the IHSAA basketball tournament was a *big* ratings driver and moneymaker for stations. 

Today, such deals are typically time-buys. The producer or the league (in this case, the IHSAA) buys the airtime and then sells all of the advertising. That protects the TV station from risk, but buying airtime on *multiple* stations for six games on Thanksgiving weekend is extremely expensive. Obviously, you limit your reach - studies show that about 10% of the people who want to watch will actually buy a PPV - but even with that 10%, it raises revenue, and probably more revenue than one can make selling advertising and buying airtime. 

Whenever we get to the semistate round where the video broadcasts are 100% PPV, our radio audience at NewPalRadio.com (which is usually very large as it is) skyrockets. 

[Muda69]

22 hours ago, Titan32 said:

Fix the P/P problem with a system similar to Iowa.

 

2023-24-Football-Classifications-8.9.23.pdf 140.41 kB · 3 downloads

Using Iowa's formula Frankfort High School's, with a 74.2% FRL rate,  enrollment classification for football would go from 895 students to 631 students.  This should put it firmly in the current 3A classification, down from 4A.   

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

My point is that to ask a television station to have civic pride when broadcasting costs hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars is an unrealistic ask.  Meanwhile, I can stream games to the whole world for a few hundred dollars, maybe.  My streams are free for the reason you cite: civic pride.  However, I don't have towers to pay for, crews to pay full-time salaries to, benefits, etc.  Believe me, I wish a station would carry the State Final games for free to view, but it's just not the world we live in anymore.

And yet, you can hop across the river, and watch the Illinois State Finals on network tv all across their state.

[PHJIrish]

6 hours ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

My point is that to ask a television station to have civic pride when broadcasting costs hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars is an unrealistic ask.  Meanwhile, I can stream games to the whole world for a few hundred dollars, maybe.  My streams are free for the reason you cite: civic pride.  However, I don't have towers to pay for, crews to pay full-time salaries to, benefits, etc.  Believe me, I wish a station would carry the State Final games for free to view, but it's just not the world we live in anymore.

Thanks for further proving my point.  It is all about the money.

[Daniel_Bragg]

3 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

Thanks for further proving my point.  It is all about the money.

OF COURSE IT IS!!!  People don't get into television to lose money.  You are asking television owners to do just that.  Again, it costs a lot of money for these games to be broadcast on a TV broadcast "level".  Are you proposing that those people work for free?

[PHJIrish]

Just now, Daniel_Bragg said:

OF COURSE IT IS!!!  People don't get into television to lose money.  You are asking television owners to do just that.  Again, it costs a lot of money for these games to be broadcast on a TV broadcast "level".  Are you proposing that those people work for free?

You win!  It's your world now.

[Trojanmp52]

Ok change 5 lol

I would have a one time school transfer rule so a kids could transfer after his  freshman year. With that being said if the kid wanted to transfer a second time would have  to be done the way it is now.

The state of Indiana is an open enrollment state so  you enroll any where you want for the most part.

[PHJIrish]

3 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Ok change 5 lol

I would have a one time school transfer rule so a kids could transfer after his  freshman year. With that being said if the kid wanted to transfer a second time would have  to be done the way it is now.

The state of Indiana is an open enrollment state so  you enroll any where you want for the most part.

Maybe for most schools!  Cathedral being the on the outside of that.