IHSAA One-Time Transfer Rule Bill To Be Filed At Indiana Legislative Session

[CoachMack219]

38 minutes ago, Sparty said:

Don’t forget loyalty.  God forbid kids learn that.  

100%

Oh yeah. CAN'T forget about LOYALTY! Nothing like coming in as a Freshman ready to play for one of the best coaches in the state and then heading into your Junior year, that coach leaves for a better job opportunity (sick loyalty there coach). The school/ program is now headed in the wrong direction and you're a potential college recruit. The new coach is notorious for doing a porous job at helping kids with the recruiting process (A LOT more coaches than we may want to admit are HORRENDOUS at this). So due to "loyalty," that kid and his parents should HAVE TO stick with a bad situation? Seems a little ridiculous to me. 

[CoachMack219]

2 hours ago, Shoot_The_Hands said:

I coached at a high school where we had a student-athlete transferring because his sister was going to be a freshman at our school rather than the school he was at due to the talk of it closing in two years, which is a very good reason to transfer so you can have both kids at one school together. Instead, the IHSAA didn't sign off and denied the appeal stating it was for athletic reasons. 

This is some of these peoples' preference. Just STAY LOYAL AND WORK HARD NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES. School closing? Don't matter, can't transfer. STAY LOYAL AND WORK HARD! Adults at the school commit IHSAA violations resulting in a Postseason ban for a school? Don't matter, can't transfer. STAY LOYAL AND WORK HARD! I can come up with examples all day. The thought process on this topic by some people is astonishing to me. 

[tango]

Well said @CoachMack219  !!

[Sparty]

8 minutes ago, CoachMack219 said:

Oh yeah. CAN'T forget about LOYALTY! Nothing like coming in as a Freshman ready to play for one of the best coaches in the state and then heading into your Junior year, that coach leaves for a better job opportunity (sick loyalty there coach). The school/ program is now headed in the wrong direction and you're a potential college recruit. The new coach is notorious for doing a porous job at helping kids with the recruiting process (A LOT more coaches than we may want to admit are HORRENDOUS at this). So due to "loyalty," that kid and his parents should HAVE TO stick with a bad situation? Seems a little ridiculous to me. 

Give me a break.  It’s HS FB. You people make it into so much that’s not needed.  Kids game. 

[CoachMack219]

13 minutes ago, Sparty said:

Give me a break.  It’s HS FB. You people make it into so much that’s not needed.  Kids game. 

Yup, kid's game. And for some kid's playing the game there are scholarships ($$$) involved. College is expensive and the cost isn't getting any cheaper (unless someone has data to prove me wrong) so if a family wants to make a choice that results in dollars for THEIR CHILD's education and THEIR FAMILY's pocket then WHO THE HELL are we (CoachMack219, Tango, Jets, Sparty, or the IHSAA) to tell them, "NOPE, YOU CAN'T DO THAT?!" 

There is A LOT more to transferring schools than simply loyalty, hard work, dedication, and running away from coaching. That's my point. 

 

[Sparty]

1 hour ago, CoachMack219 said:

Yup, kid's game. And for some kid's playing the game there are scholarships ($$$) involved. College is expensive and the cost isn't getting any cheaper (unless someone has data to prove me wrong) so if a family wants to make a choice that results in dollars for THEIR CHILD's education and THEIR FAMILY's pocket then WHO THE HELL are we (CoachMack219, Tango, Jets, Sparty, or the IHSAA) to tell them, "NOPE, YOU CAN'T DO THAT?!" 

There is A LOT more to transferring schools than simply loyalty, hard work, dedication, and running away from coaching. That's my point. 

 

SOME.  Usually less than 1%.  Anyone can get that money for the most part.  If you are good enough, they will find you.  

1 hour ago, CoachMack219 said:

Yup, kid's game. And for some kid's playing the game there are scholarships ($$$) involved. College is expensive and the cost isn't getting any cheaper (unless someone has data to prove me wrong) so if a family wants to make a choice that results in dollars for THEIR CHILD's education and THEIR FAMILY's pocket then WHO THE HELL are we (CoachMack219, Tango, Jets, Sparty, or the IHSAA) to tell them, "NOPE, YOU CAN'T DO THAT?!" 

There is A LOT more to transferring schools than simply loyalty, hard work, dedication, and running away from coaching. That's my point. 

 

Are you ok with the voucher program here in Indiana?

1 hour ago, CoachMack219 said:

Yup, kid's game. And for some kid's playing the game there are scholarships ($$$) involved. College is expensive and the cost isn't getting any cheaper (unless someone has data to prove me wrong) so if a family wants to make a choice that results in dollars for THEIR CHILD's education and THEIR FAMILY's pocket then WHO THE HELL are we (CoachMack219, Tango, Jets, Sparty, or the IHSAA) to tell them, "NOPE, YOU CAN'T DO THAT?!" 

There is A LOT more to transferring schools than simply loyalty, hard work, dedication, and running away from coaching. That's my point. 

 

I am not in 100% disagreement.  The examples you provided are the most common reasons they leave.  

[CoachMack219]

24 minutes ago, Sparty said:

SOME.  Usually less than 1%.  Anyone can get that money for the most part.  If you are good enough, they will find you.  

Are you ok with the voucher program here in Indiana?

I am not in 100% disagreement.  The examples you provided are the most common reasons they leave.  

The National average is actually 7%, 3% if we're talking Division 1 only. Still a small number but more kids are impacted than we may believe. As far as the voucher program is concerned, while I may not agree with every aspect/ every piece of language in it, the idea of giving parents from lower income households the opportunity to provide a better educational/ athletic experience for their child is their prerogative. Similar to transferring. I appreciate the discussion back and forth with ya Sparty. 

[jets]

2 hours ago, CoachMack219 said:

1. Not EVERY SINGLE TRANSFER has to do with a kid not wanting to deal with adversity/ becoming "tougher" (mentally or physically or because they were "challenged by a coach". You'll see a common theme here, IF THEY'RE LEAVING IT AIN'T YOUR BUSINESS WHY. Sign off and move on. 

2. How have we gone to far the other way? By allowing young adults (more often than not their parents who are *checks notes* adults) to make the same choice that the adults who coach them can make whenever they want? A better choice for themselves/ families and we all say, "NOPE not around these parts!" Again, IF THEY'RE LEAVING IT AIN'T YOUR BUSINESS WHY. Sign off and move on. 

3. I'll hammer the USA to win WW3 at -1000 odds if we ever unfortunately see that day. 

1. And the IHSAA has a transfer process to figure out the reasoning. It is my understanding that 99% of transfers get approved no problem. You are having no empathy at all for programs whose players are routinely RECRUITED (oh no, there is that word) and poached. Yes, it happens...

2. I stated in my previous email - that no coach/parent/school should want a kid to be miserable or ruin their playing experience. At the end of the day, if the situation is toxic, then yes, get out. BUT - I think, as a society as a whole - we've kowtowed to the AAU/travel ball culture and generally just held kids by the hand a little bit. 

 

[Shoot_The_Hands]

2 minutes ago, jets said:

1. And the IHSAA has a transfer process to figure out the reasoning. It is my understanding that 99% of transfers get approved no problem. You are having no empathy at all for programs whose players are routinely RECRUITED (oh no, there is that word) and poached. Yes, it happens...

2. I stated in my previous email - that no coach/parent/school should want a kid to be miserable or ruin their playing experience. At the end of the day, if the situation is toxic, then yes, get out. BUT - I think, as a society as a whole - we've kowtowed to the AAU/travel ball culture and generally just held kids by the hand a little bit. 

 

Again if you think the athlete is getting "recruited" then the school he is leaving does not have to sign off on them. They simply could just refuse to and use this as there reasoning. The whole "being recruited" to me is just an excuse for kids wanting to go somewhere that they have a better chance of succeeding. 

 

Again if the school doesn't like that then they should not sign off on letting them transfer and make them play JV for a whole season. But again, schools don't want to open up a can of worms with appeals and media. 

[BlackSwarm6407]

Any rule change to allow transfers for athletic reason will make it like the wild west in Urban/major city areas but not as much in rural ones. Just look at the transfer portal pre allowing NIL deals. Kids talk all the time and will go where they want/feel best chance to win. A coach could go from graduating 8 Seniors that started to losing 16-20 varsity players because kids want to go down the street to have another chance to win a title. You will start seeing yo yo seasons in just a matter of few years going 8-4 to 4-8 to 12-3 to 3-12 constantly I believe. 

[Shoot_The_Hands]

7 minutes ago, BlackSwarm6407 said:

Any rule change to allow transfers for athletic reason will make it like the wild west in Urban/major city areas but not as much in rural ones. Just look at the transfer portal pre allowing NIL deals. Kids talk all the time and will go where they want/feel best chance to win. A coach could go from graduating 8 Seniors that started to losing 16-20 varsity players because kids want to go down the street to have another chance to win a title. You will start seeing yo yo seasons in just a matter of few years going 8-4 to 4-8 to 12-3 to 3-12 constantly I believe. 

I see it more as Jr's/SR's being the ones to transfer maybe a few sophomores. But again, a school could not agree to sign off making said transfer ineligible for varsity play for one year if they don't like them transferring then the student has to make a decision, transfer and lose a year of varsity football or stay put. 

 

This is one thing that they technically have in college but causes a stir when used. 

[Sparty]

1 hour ago, CoachMack219 said:

The National average is actually 7%, 3% if we're talking Division 1 only. Still a small number but more kids are impacted than we may believe. As far as the voucher program is concerned, while I may not agree with every aspect/ every piece of language in it, the idea of giving parents from lower income households the opportunity to provide a better educational/ athletic experience for their child is their prerogative. Similar to transferring. I appreciate the discussion back and forth with ya Sparty. 

Same here.  
Why can’t people who aren’t in the lower income household use their tax dollars (voucher system) to send their child to the school of their choice?   Just thinking out loud.  You can answer if you want, but that may be a topic for a different time.  

[tango]

13 minutes ago, Sparty said:

Same here.  
Why can’t people who aren’t in the lower income household use their tax dollars (voucher system) to send their child to the school of their choice?   Just thinking out loud.  You can answer if you want, but that may be a topic for a different time.  

They can. The program has been expanded pretty significantly in recent years. A family of 4 with income less than $230,880 is eligible. My fellow p/p supporters may not agree, but I personally think that is too high. 

If you follow this sort of thing, there is a whale of a fight about vouchers going on in TN as we speak. 

[Sparty]

16 minutes ago, tango said:

They can. The program has been expanded pretty significantly in recent years. A family of 4 with income less than $230,880 is eligible. My fellow p/p supporters may not agree, but I personally think that is too high. 

If you follow this sort of thing, there is a whale of a fight about vouchers going on in TN as we speak. 

That’s wonderful news Tango. Thank you.  Don’t know why there’d be a fight in Tennessee, besides the teachers union fear mongering.  The voucher money is YOUR tax money. Use it as you see fit.  
 

Now, with that said, P/Ps receiving this money need to start all the SPED programs.  Or stop receiving tax money.  Which they won’t.  

[Titan32]

1 hour ago, Sparty said:

That’s wonderful news Tango. Thank you.  Don’t know why there’d be a fight in Tennessee, besides the teachers union fear mongering.  The voucher money is YOUR tax money. Use it as you see fit.  
 

Now, with that said, P/Ps receiving this money need to start all the SPED programs.  Or stop receiving tax money.  Which they won’t.  

I would rather see folks who send their kids to a P/P get some sort of reduction in property tax.  Voucher is just a French word the big wigs in Indy use to reduce their bill at (insert private school name here).  Careful what you wish for....what "Charter School" will launch a business plan to accept kids from the only place where public schools are an issue (inner cities).  School choice is smoke and mirrors.  Here is what they will do:  Once the inner city public kids have their school shut down but have these nice shiny vouchers in their hands...the Privates within driving distance will jack up the price enough that those vouchers won't cut it.  Then golfing buddy of Senator "X" steps in with an inner city Charter School plan (A business) that will gladly accept those dollars and provide an even more crapy experience than they received at the public school.  And it's funny how it's never mentioned that around the state of Indiana the rural publics are in the top 25% in the state....if what they are looking for is achievement why would they punish those who get it.  The amount of funding publics are eligible for with regard to bonds for projects was cut yet again recently...rural schools use these bonds all the time to make their schools more "competitive and attractive".  I am a Republican town councilman and I can tell you right now the Republicans in Indianapolis are going to ruin education in our state.  Seems like a one size fits all narrative.

[Sparty]

39 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I would rather see folks who send their kids to a P/P get some sort of reduction in property tax.  Voucher is just a French word the big wigs in Indy use to reduce their bill at (insert private school name here).  Careful what you wish for....what "Charter School" will launch a business plan to accept kids from the only place where public schools are an issue (inner cities).  School choice is smoke and mirrors.  Here is what they will do:  Once the inner city public kids have their school shut down but have these nice shiny vouchers in their hands...the Privates within driving distance will jack up the price enough that those vouchers won't cut it.  Then golfing buddy of Senator "X" steps in with an inner city Charter School plan (A business) that will gladly accept those dollars and provide an even more crapy experience than they received at the public school.  And it's funny how it's never mentioned that around the state of Indiana the rural publics are in the top 25% in the state....if what they are looking for is achievement why would they punish those who get it.  The amount of funding publics are eligible for with regard to bonds for projects was cut yet again recently...rural schools use these bonds all the time to make their schools more "competitive and attractive".  I am a Republican town councilman and I can tell you right now the Republicans in Indianapolis are going to ruin education in our state.  Seems like a one size fits all narrative.

Kind of “blow it up” if you will (in regards to education)?

41 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I would rather see folks who send their kids to a P/P get some sort of reduction in property tax.  Voucher is just a French word the big wigs in Indy use to reduce their bill at (insert private school name here).  Careful what you wish for....what "Charter School" will launch a business plan to accept kids from the only place where public schools are an issue (inner cities).  School choice is smoke and mirrors.  Here is what they will do:  Once the inner city public kids have their school shut down but have these nice shiny vouchers in their hands...the Privates within driving distance will jack up the price enough that those vouchers won't cut it.  Then golfing buddy of Senator "X" steps in with an inner city Charter School plan (A business) that will gladly accept those dollars and provide an even more crapy experience than they received at the public school.  And it's funny how it's never mentioned that around the state of Indiana the rural publics are in the top 25% in the state....if what they are looking for is achievement why would they punish those who get it.  The amount of funding publics are eligible for with regard to bonds for projects was cut yet again recently...rural schools use these bonds all the time to make their schools more "competitive and attractive".  I am a Republican town councilman and I can tell you right now the Republicans in Indianapolis are going to ruin education in our state.  Seems like a one size fits all narrative.

You have some real good ideas.  Don’t get me started on property taxes. Lol

[CoachMack219]

17 hours ago, jets said:

1. And the IHSAA has a transfer process to figure out the reasoning. It is my understanding that 99% of transfers get approved no problem. You are having no empathy at all for programs whose players are routinely RECRUITED (oh no, there is that word) and poached. Yes, it happens...

2. I stated in my previous email - that no coach/parent/school should want a kid to be miserable or ruin their playing experience. At the end of the day, if the situation is toxic, then yes, get out. BUT - I think, as a society as a whole - we've kowtowed to the AAU/travel ball culture and generally just held kids by the hand a little bit. 

1. Yes, the IHSAA does have a process, but it could be better. I googled, but cannot confirm with assured accuracy, and found that the number of approved transfers by the IHSAA is 93%, not too shabby. It does bother me that 7 out of 100 kids will be denied full eligibility because I don't know their stories and honestly (despite that AWESOME transfer form lol) the IHSAA doesn't know their full stories either which is where I have an issue with denying someone something without all of the necessary information. I know some of these things go to hearings or through multiple legal steps, but that's a little excessive to me for a family trying to better their child's/ their situation. It's not that I don't have empathy for them, I have been them albeit not in a rural setting, but losing players is losing players whether you're in 1A or 6A. Any lack of empathy from me comes from a question I like to ask myself when I/ a program I am a part of loses a player... "What did we do as program, staff, school, and community to make them WANT to leave?" This self reflection exercise has helped me many times understand the family/ player's WHY for leaving and allowed myself and our staff address anything that we feel may have "pushed a kid out the door." People don't leave places where they feel valued, respected, loved, coached, supported, etc. but when they aren't getting those things they do want to leave AND THEY SHOULD. I won't deny that I have coached people who have transferred for selfish/ entitled reasons. But more often than not, I find it is a little deeper than that.

2. I agree with you, jets. No coach/ parent/ school should want for/ make a kid miserable and/or ruin their playing experience. Unfortunately though, that does happen here and around the country and sometimes those that try to "get out" are held back by the IHSAA's, or other governing bodies, policies thus doing EXACTLY what we don't want and making the kid miserable. I don't disagree with you about kowtowing to the transfer/ hand holding culture because whether we have a one time transfer rule, the "wild wild west" (a portal), or our current structure THOSE types of people and transfers will still exist. However, in my experiences, more often than not the people who are willing to transfer/ transfer their kids when they don't get their way, those kids often can't/ won't play no matter where they go because that mindset is taught in the home. Whether coaching, teaching, or managing kids at a job overcoming their household teachings is a TALL TASK because we don't spend the time as teachers or coaches with them that they get at home which makes the entitlement battle tough for coaches/ teachers. 

Bonus Reply: I find it interesting that according to a January 14th article in Indy Star, only 30% of State AD's are in favor of a one-time transfer as a Freshman/Sophomore and 13% in favor of any time, one-time transfer regardless of grade. Why do we think the AD's feel this way? My theory is ego, selfishness, power, and control over the kids/ families in their district. It's a "if you don't play for us, you can't play for anyone" mentality and I think that is an absolutely awful way to treat people in your community that you allege to care about WHEN IT IS CONVENIENT FOR YOU (talking @ the AD's here not you, jets lol).

[CoachMack219]

17 hours ago, tango said:

They can. The program has been expanded pretty significantly in recent years. A family of 4 with income less than $230,880 is eligible. My fellow p/p supporters may not agree, but I personally think that is too high. 

$230,880 is a pretty high number/ bar to set for the voucher program. Christ if my fiancé and I made that much combined, even with paying $8.29 for 18 eggs last Saturday, I could afford to send my son to a P/P without a voucher. 🤣 

[Sparty]

5 minutes ago, CoachMack219 said:

$230,880 is a pretty high number/ bar to set for the voucher program. Christ if my fiancé and I made that much combined, even with paying $8.29 for 18 eggs last Saturday, I could afford to send my son to a P/P without a voucher. 🤣 

It’s your tax dollars, you still can.  

[CoachMack219]

15 hours ago, Titan32 said:

I would rather see folks who send their kids to a P/P get some sort of reduction in property tax.  Voucher is just a French word the big wigs in Indy use to reduce their bill at (insert private school name here).  Careful what you wish for....what "Charter School" will launch a business plan to accept kids from the only place where public schools are an issue (inner cities).  School choice is smoke and mirrors.  Here is what they will do:  Once the inner city public kids have their school shut down but have these nice shiny vouchers in their hands...the Privates within driving distance will jack up the price enough that those vouchers won't cut it.  Then golfing buddy of Senator "X" steps in with an inner city Charter School plan (A business) that will gladly accept those dollars and provide an even more crapy experience than they received at the public school.  And it's funny how it's never mentioned that around the state of Indiana the rural publics are in the top 25% in the state....if what they are looking for is achievement why would they punish those who get it.  The amount of funding publics are eligible for with regard to bonds for projects was cut yet again recently...rural schools use these bonds all the time to make their schools more "competitive and attractive".  I am a Republican town councilman and I can tell you right now the Republicans in Indianapolis are going to ruin education in our state.  Seems like a one size fits all narrative.

I couldn't like/ heart/ love this post enough so I had to reply to also say how much I appreciate this post. Really good stuff here. A damn shame what is going on with the Republicans in Indianapolis and their education agenda. In my personal opinion, there is nothing more American than being willing to look at a political situation like an intelligent human being instead of being part of a party. Ya made me proud to be an American today @Titan32, thanks for that! 

[CoachMack219]

Just now, Sparty said:

It’s your tax dollars, you still can.  

For sure. I was a Catholic school boy K-8 and a public school boy 9-12. From my own experiences I gathered that education is an extension of the home and regardless of my son's school setting, if I show him that education is important/ valuable, he'll believe it's important/ valuable. He's a Freshman now and based on his performances, I have been proven right.

I don't hate or dislike private/ parochial education, I just thoroughly enjoyed my public school experience to my private/ parochial one so that's the setting I put my son in. But you are correct, I sure can if I want.  

[Sparty]

8 minutes ago, CoachMack219 said:

For sure. I was a Catholic school boy K-8 and a public school boy 9-12. From my own experiences I gathered that education is an extension of the home and regardless of my son's school setting, if I show him that education is important/ valuable, he'll believe it's important/ valuable. He's a Freshman now and based on his performances, I have been proven right.

I don't hate or dislike private/ parochial education, I just thoroughly enjoyed my public school experience to my private/ parochial one so that's the setting I put my son in. But you are correct, I sure can if I want.  

Excellent post

[tango]

1 hour ago, CoachMack219 said:

$230,880 is a pretty high number/ bar to set for the voucher program. Christ if my fiancé and I made that much combined, even with paying $8.29 for 18 eggs last Saturday, I could afford to send my son to a P/P without a voucher. 🤣 

Yeah, I agree. The GOP in Indiana is stretching it too far IMO. Should only be for people with limited means.  

[Southside]

18 hours ago, tango said:

They can. The program has been expanded pretty significantly in recent years. A family of 4 with income less than $230,880 is eligible. My fellow p/p supporters may not agree, but I personally think that is too high. 

If you follow this sort of thing, there is a whale of a fight about vouchers going on in TN as we speak. 

Gov Braun's proposed budget includes removing the income restrictions on the School Choice Voucher program.

Braun's education proposals

Braun proposes increasing K-12 spending by 2% in each year of the budget, which translates to an increase of $546 million over the biennium.

That's in addition to the yet-undisclosed cost of expanding the school choice voucher program to be universal, regardless of income ― though this won't take much, since the program is nearly universal already. Families of four with an annual income of $220,000 currently qualify.

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2025/01/16/gov-mike-brauns-first-state-budget-proposal-school-choice-tax-relief/77745661007/

 

[tango]

Yep, our esteemed Governor's proposal is absolutely insane to me.