Should Notre Dame Join a Conference?

[Bobref]

This is going to be a very long post. The question has been debated here, and elsewhere, and the issues are as complex as the fans are passionate. While I’ll try to keep this more in the realm of fact, as opposed to opinion, all should understand from the outset I am not unbiased when it comes to Notre Dame.

My credentials as a Notre Dame supporter are probably as good as those of anyone likely to read this. I love Notre Dame. My 4 years there were among the best of my life. My ND degree set me up for success in life, and it is one of my proudest accomplishments. Moreover, I wore the blue and gold in intercollegiate athletic competition, and always took my responsibility as a representative of Our Lady’s University very, very seriously.

All that being said, the most valuable skill I learned at ND was how to think critically. So, I have attempted to apply those critical thinking skills to this issue in as unbiased an analysis as I can manage. So, here goes.

How did Notre Dame develop its tradition of independence in football?

To decide whether conference affiliation is in the best interests of the program, you first need to understand how the policy of independence came about. ND’s status as an independent was originally adopted in the 1920s, when the Irish first rose to national prominence. In 1924, Knute Rockne put the team on a train and headed west to California. The only bowl game played that year was the Rose Bowl, and the Four Horsemen rode roughshod over Stanford, as the Irish capped their first national championship season. The idea of taking a team across country to play a game was new, and it captured the interest of the fans. The tradition of playing USC was born the following season. Notre was actually known as the “Ramblers” in those days, because of their willingness to travel to find opponents. 

Rock created the national brand that was Notre Dame football out of necessity. Notre Dame had no built-in local base of fans and recruits like the big state schools. Because it was a faith-based institution, its pool of potential recruits was necessarily limited, first by religion, and ultimately by academic demands that exceeded those of most other football-playing schools. Similarly, its relatively small size was a handicap in building a fan base without many thousands of alumni to rely on. For example, Notre Dame has about 150,000 living alumni. Ohio State has over 4 times that number. So, they needed to appeal to a national audience of fans and potential recruits. Catholicism was the only natural attractant, and Catholics provided the national fan and recruiting base for ND in the early years. 

At the same time, Rock was establishing an identity for the team on the gridiron. Because he wanted to appeal to a national fan base, and to recruit nationally, ND felt it could not be affiliated with a conference, because all conferences were regional at that time. The Irish adopted a scheduling philosophy that required them to show the flag all over the country, something that just wasn’t done if you were a conference member.

Since ND was not affiliated with a conference, the only goal of this national program was, logically, a national championship. That was the reason why, after that Rose Bowl win against Stanford, the Irish adopted a policy of not playing in bowl games. In those days, the final polls declaring a national champion came out at the end of the regular season. Since the bowls had no impact on a national championship, and they were typically played during final exams, ND did not play in another bowl game until 1969. This policy served them well, as they rose to national prominence, winning 7 national championships between 1925 and 1969. The AP changed its polling process in 1968 to issue its final poll after the bowls were completed. Since ND’s program goal was a natty, they changed their bowl participation philosophy at that time, and began the new era of ND football with a Cotton Bowl appearance against Texas on Jan. 1, 1970. They changed their strategy to keep it well-aligned with the goal of winning national championships.

Competing for a national championship, reinforcing the national brand in terms of both fan base and recruiting, and adhering to high academic standards, remain the goals of the program.

Are the reasons initially justifying independent status still in existence?

Understanding how and why Notre Dame’s policy of football independence originated is key to the issue of whether that philosophy should change or not. Is it possible to maintain a national fan base and a national recruiting presence, and compete for a national championship, all while becoming affiliated with a conference?

The “national brand” limitations once imposed by conference affiliation have been significantly reduced due to a number of factors, principally the rise of the internet, social media, and streaming services, and the expansion of existing conferences outside their traditional regional envelopes. As late as 1992, the reach of the Big 10, for example, stretched only from Columbus to Iowa City, not even 550 mi. Today the Big 10 goes from coast to coast and is physically present from sea to shining sea. Today a Big 10 team might play in the New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Seattle markets in a single season. ACC teams go all the way to Texas and California.The SEC includes Oklahoma & Texas. Regional conferences are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. The world has gotten a lot smaller. The college football world is no exception. It is now a lot easier to recruit in Texas, Florida, California, or anywhere else without having an actual physical presence close by. NIL and the transfer portal have revolutionized recruiting, and the old methods don’t work well any more.

Conference affiliation, as recent events have revealed, is no barrier to competing for a national championship. In fact, independent status has likely become more of an obstacle, given scheduling issues. The P4 conferences have all gone to 9 game in-conference schedules. This has significantly reduced ND’s scheduling opportunities, outside of the first couple of weeks of the season traditionally reserved for non-conference games. With SOS and SOR becoming more important with the advent of a playoff system, the ability to generate a quality schedule has become a problem for ND. [Please don’t bring up Navy. That’s been addressed elsewhere. Getting Navy off the schedule is a non-starter. End of discussion.] And now, in addition to logistics issues, there is the prospect of a scheduling “backlash” against ND. It’s unclear how real that threat is, as ND is a significant draw, putting butts in the seats and eyeballs on the screen.

Of course, conference affiliation does not guarantee a high quality schedule every season. Just look at the 2025 ACC for proof of that. But it does remove the perception that ND manages its schedule in a way conference affiliated teams cannot, hence the threatened “backlash.” Would the Irish have fared differently with the CFP Committee if their schedule contained Rutgers, Maryland, UCLA , and Michigan State, as opposed to Syracuse, Stanford, Arkansas and NC State? No one knows, but at least with a conference affiliation, the argument that ND plays a manufactured schedule when no one else can is eliminated, together with the negative connotations that go along with it.

So, there are some sound reasons why an independent schedule no longer serves the goals of the program as it once did. But no discussion of program goals and philosophies is complete without addressing the elephant in the room: $$$.

What would be the economic effect of conference affiliation?

We cannot pretend that economic issues do not enter into the discussion. Notre Dame keeps significantly more revenue than many conference members, allowing them to retain substantial funds from CFP appearances and other sources. This financial strength allows for greater investment in both athletic programs and broader university goals. Unlike many schools, ND’s football revenue does not all stay with the program, or even with the Athletic Department, although it does fund football operations and non-revenue sports. The NBC deal has resulted in over $100 million in financial aid to non student athletes over the years. This is a vital part of the University’s overall goals. Any significant reduction in revenue resulting from conference affiliation is a non-starter. How would a conference affiliation affect revenue?

Would conference affiliation result in a significant reduction in football revenue?

Currently, ND’s contract with NBC/Peacock which runs through the 2029 season generates about $50 million/yr. The broadcast rights payouts to conference affiliated programs are, in some cases significantly more, than that. Under the current deal, B1G schools receive about $63 million. The Big 12 is only about $40 million; the ACC about $45 million. The SEC is about $52 million last year, but just signed a new deal which will put that figure somewhere in the $60+ million range starting next season.

ESPN/ABC have locked up all of college football except the B1G and Notre Dame. Fox is heavily invested in the B1G. NBC owns Notre Dame. I don’t view any of this as a significant barrier to conference affiliation. ND’s Athletic Director, Pete Bevacqua, was the Chairman and President of NBC Sports as recently as 2023. If ND wanted to join a conference, I’m confident they could work out a deal with NBC.

The big (potential) money difference is playoff compensation. For their run to the national championship game in 2024, ND received a $20 million payout, which they didn’t have to share with anyone. The conferences all have distribution formulas which provide that all members share in the payouts to conference teams in the CFP, most according to a formula which provides a bigger share to the teams actually making the playoffs. B1G schools received about $2.5 million each from the playoff pools last year. Of course, ND received $0 in 2025. Thus, conference affiliation provides greater certainty of revenue, while independent status provides a chance for a bigger payday. I would think that if ND is considering a conference affiliation, they would gravitate towards conferences that allow actual playoff teams to keep a larger portion of the revenue generated, with smaller shares going to non-playoff teams.

In summary, there does not appear to be any financial impediment to conference affiliation. Rather, it is likely to present an opportunity to increase broadcast rights revenue.

Have additional reasons developed, pro or con, regarding independent status?

The world has changed dramatically from the days when Notre Dame’s policy of independence, driven by recruiting and fan base considerations, was a necessity. The college football of today would be unrecognizable to a fan in the 1970s. The internet, the rise of social media, and the increase in $$ dictate changes in both strategies and policies. Add to that the pressures of NIL, the portal, and a playoff format. There have been sufficient changes in the college football landscape to mandate a fresh look at whether the now century old policy of independence continues to be the best way to achieve the program’s goals.

The rise of the “super conferences” has resulted in unprecedented difficulties in building a quality independent schedule. This results in two consequences, both negative:

1. A “weak” schedule that is perceived to be under ND’s control is seen as an unfair advantage, while a similar schedule strength is not held against a conference-affiliated team, since they don’t have the same kind of “freedom” of scheduling.

2. Playing a weaker schedule is not necessarily the best preparation for a playoff run. “Iron sharpens iron.” Playing a more competitive schedule, over time, will result in a better product on the field.

In short, college football has changed drastically since Notre Dame developed its policy of independence in football. Those changes significantly mitigate, and in some cases eliminate, the drivers of that policy. All that remains, then, is to see how modern conference affiliation squares with the historical goals of the program.

How does potential conference affiliation promote the historical goals of Notre Dame football?

Competing for a national championship, reinforcing the national brand in terms of both fan base and recruiting, and adhering to high academic standards, remain the goals of the program. To this we can add “generating sufficient revenue to continue to fund the program, support non-revenue sports, and contribute significantly to the University’s general fund.” How does conference affiliation promote these goals?

Competing for a national championship.

What did we learn from the playoff snub debacle of 2025? We learned that you can improve your CFP ranking by playing in a conference championship game, even if you get stoned. We learned that there are a lot of people (committee members?) who hold Notre Dame’s independent status against them. The notorious MOU which supposedly assures ND of a playoff position if it finishes in the top 12 provides little comfort when we see what the committee did this year by moving Alabama ahead of ND.

To be honest, if the CFP goes to 16 teams, ND should be in every year, especially if they do away with or limit automatic qualifiers. But we have seen very small distinctions have very large consequences. And if the goal is a national championship, the strategy should be to follow the path with the fewest obstacles to getting there, without compromising other program values. So, removing negative perceptions about scheduling, and striving for superior seeding and byes should be goals as well. Resolving the scheduling issues as suggested above provides not the only, but the clearest, path to a national championship.

Reinforcing the national brand.

Notre Dame’s national brand is already well-established. Arguably, it is the only program that can legitimately claim “national” status. The geographic and numerical expansion of the major conferences, and the availability of multiple broadcast platforms, means that it is now quite feasible to both belong to a conference and play a quality schedule that is national in scope, thus continuing to reinforce the brand.

Adhering to high academic standards.

ND’s academic standards are a strictly internal matter. Conference affiliation is irrelevant to this goal. ND’s GPA and academic progress benchmarks already meet or exceed those of any conference, as evidenced by the Irish’s perennial top national ranking in Graduation Success Rate.

Generating sufficient revenue.

As shown above, joining either the SEC or the B1G will likely result in an increase in broadcast rights revenue on the order of 20-25% in the short term, and more than that down the road. While there may be some decrease in post-season compensation, there’s a floor that prevents conference members from being shut out of playoff $$, as the Irish were this year. Consistent revenue streams become increasingly important in the NIL/portal world.

Conclusion: The Time is Right for Notre Dame to Join a Conference.

Joining a conference — provided it’s the right conference — is consistent with the long standing goals of the program. Notre Dame’s policy of independence was the right thing to do at the time it was adopted. In 1968, when the process for determining national champs changed, ND changed their philosophy on bowl game participation to realign it with their goal of a national championship. Since then, college football has changed dramatically in a number of ways. It’s time to, once again, change policy to realign it with the goal of winning a national championship.

Which conference is right for Notre Dame?

That’s probably the easiest question of all to answer. It’s the B1G by a landslide. For those who still think it’s important, the geographic fit is perfect. On the field, the B1G is ascending. Its revenue distribution is a significant upgrade on ND’s current broadcast deal. It’s in every major market. A 9 game conference schedule plus Navy still gives ND the opportunity to find a couple of games in the Deep South and/or Southwest. Historical rivalries like Michigan and USC will be preserved, and new ones will develop, such as Ohio State and, dare I say it, Indiana. It’s a no-brainer.

So, that’s my take on the issue. Surprised?

Edited January 6 by Bobref

[Komets2727]

15 minutes ago, Bobref said:

This is going to be a very long post. The question has been debated here, and elsewhere, and the issues are as complex as the fans are passionate. While I’ll try to keep this more in the realm of fact, as opposed to opinion, all should understand from the outset I am not unbiased when it comes to Notre Dame.

My credentials as a Notre Dame supporter are probably as good as those of anyone likely to read this. I love Notre Dame. My 4 years there were among the best of my life. My ND degree set me up for success in life, and it is one of my proudest accomplishments. Moreover, I wore the blue and gold in intercollegiate athletic competition, and always took my responsibility as a representative of Our Lady’s University very, very seriously.

All that being said, the most valuable skill I learned at ND was how to think critically. So, I have attempted to apply those critical thinking skills to this issue in as unbiased an analysis as I can manage. So, here goes.

How did Notre Dame develop its tradition of independence in football?

To decide whether conference affiliation is in the best interests of the program, you first need to understand how the policy of independence came about. ND’s status as an independent was originally adopted in the 1920s, when the Irish first rose to national prominence. In 1924, Knute Rockne put the team on a train and headed west to California. The only bowl game played that year was the Rose Bowl, and the Four Horsemen rode roughshod over Stanford, as the Irish capped their first national championship season. The idea of taking a team across country to play a game was new, and it captured the interest of the fans. The tradition of playing USC was born the following season. Notre was actually known as the “Ramblers” in those days, because of their willingness to travel to find opponents. 

Rock created the national brand that was Notre Dame football out of necessity. Notre Dame had no built-in local base of fans and recruits like the big state schools. Because it was a faith-based institution, its pool of potential recruits was necessarily limited, first by religion, and ultimately by academic demands that exceeded those of most other football-playing schools. Similarly, its relatively small size was a handicap in building a fan base without many thousands of alumni to rely on. For example, Notre Dame has about 150,000 living alumni. Ohio State has over 4 times that number. So, they needed to appeal to a national audience of fans and potential recruits. Catholicism was the only natural attractant, and Catholics provided the national fan and recruiting base for ND in the early years. 

At the same time, Rock was establishing an identity for the team on the gridiron. Because he wanted to appeal to a national fan base, and to recruit nationally, ND felt it could not be affiliated with a conference, because all conferences were regional at that time. The Irish adopted a scheduling philosophy that required them to show the flag all over the country, something that just wasn’t done if you were a conference member.

Since ND was not affiliated with a conference, the only goal of this national program was, logically, a national championship. That was the reason why, after that Rose Bowl win against Stanford, the Irish adopted a policy of not playing in bowl games. In those days, the final polls declaring a national champion came out at the end of the regular season. Since the bowls had no impact on a national championship, and they were typically played during final exams, ND did not play in another bowl game until 1969. This policy served them well, as they rose to national prominence, winning 7 national championships between 1925 and 1969. The AP changed its polling process in 1968 to issue its final poll after the bowls were completed. Since ND’s program goal was a natty, they changed their bowl participation philosophy at that time, and began the new era of ND football with a Cotton Bowl appearance against Texas on Jan. 1, 1970. They changed their strategy to keep it well-aligned with the goal of winning national championships.

Competing for a national championship, reinforcing the national brand in terms of both fan base and recruiting, and adhering to high academic standards, remain the goals of the program.

Are the reasons initially justifying independent status still in existence?

Understanding how and why Notre Dame’s policy of football independence originated is key to the issue of whether that philosophy should change or not. Is it possible to maintain a national fan base and a national recruiting presence, and compete for a national championship, all while becoming affiliated with a conference?

The “national brand” limitations once imposed by conference affiliation have been significantly reduced due to a number of factors, principally the rise of the internet, social media, and streaming services, and the expansion of existing conferences outside their traditional regional envelopes. As late as 1992, the reach of the Big 10, for example, stretched only from Columbus to Iowa City, not even 550 mi. Today the Big 10 goes from coast to coast and is physically present from sea to shining sea. Today a Big 10 team might play in the New York, Chicago, Los Angeles and Seattle markets in a single season. ACC teams go all the way to Texas and California.The SEC includes Oklahoma & Texas. Regional conferences are rapidly becoming a thing of the past. The world has gotten a lot smaller. The college football world is no exception. It is now a lot easier to recruit in Texas, Florida, California, or anywhere else without having an actual physical presence close by. NIL and the transfer portal have revolutionized recruiting, and the old methods don’t work well any more.

Conference affiliation, as recent events have revealed, is no barrier to competing for a national championship. In fact, independent status has likely become more of an obstacle, given scheduling issues. The P4 conferences have all gone to 9 game in-conference schedules. This has significantly reduced ND’s scheduling opportunities, outside of the first couple of weeks of the season traditionally reserved for non-conference games. With SOS and SOR becoming more important with the advent of a playoff system, the ability to generate a quality schedule has become a problem for ND. [Please don’t bring up Navy. That’s been addressed elsewhere. Getting Navy off the schedule is a non-starter. End of discussion.] And now, in addition to logistics issues, there is the prospect of a scheduling “backlash” against ND. It’s unclear how real that threat is, as ND is a significant draw, putting butts in the seats and eyeballs on the screen.

Of course, conference affiliation does not guarantee a high quality schedule every season. Just look at the 2025 ACC for proof of that. But it does remove the perception that ND manages its schedule in a way conference affiliated teams cannot, hence the threatened “backlash.” Would the Irish have fared differently with the CFP Committee if their schedule contained Rutgers, Maryland, UCLA , and Michigan State, as opposed to Syracuse, Stanford, Arkansas and NC State? No one knows, but at least with a conference affiliation, the argument that ND plays a manufactured schedule when no one else can is eliminated, together with the negative connotations that go along with it.

So, there are some sound reasons why an independent schedule no longer serves the goals of the program as it once did. But no discussion of program goals and philosophies is complete without addressing the elephant in the room: $$$.

What would be the economic effect of conference affiliation?

We cannot pretend that economic issues do not enter into the discussion. Notre Dame keeps significantly more revenue than many conference members, allowing them to retain substantial funds from CFP appearances and other sources. This financial strength allows for greater investment in both athletic programs and broader university goals. Unlike many schools, ND’s football revenue does not all stay with the program, or even with the Athletic Department, although it does fund football operations and non-revenue sports. The NBC deal has resulted in over $100 million in financial aid to non student athletes over the years. This is a vital part of the University’s overall goals. Any significant reduction in revenue resulting from conference affiliation is a non-starter. How would a conference affiliation affect revenue?

Would conference affiliation result in a significant reduction in football revenue?

Currently, ND’s contract with NBC/Peacock which runs through the 2029 season generates about $50 million/yr. The broadcast rights payouts to conference affiliated programs are, in some cases significantly more, than that. Under the current deal, B1G schools receive about $63 million. The Big 12 is only about $40 million; the ACC about $45 million. The SEC is about $52 million last year, but just signed a new deal which will put that figure somewhere in the $60+ million range starting next season.

ESPN/ABC have locked up all of college football except the B1G and Notre Dame. Fox is heavily invested in the B1G. NBC owns Notre Dame. I don’t view any of this as a significant barrier to conference affiliation. ND’s Athletic Director, Pete Bevacqua, was the Chairman and President of NBC Sports as recently as 2023. If ND wanted to join a conference, I’m confident they could work out a deal with NBC.

The big (potential) money difference is playoff compensation. For their run to the national championship game in 2024, ND received a $20 million payout, which they didn’t have to share with anyone. The conferences all have distribution formulas which provide that all members share in the payouts to conference teams in the CFP, most according to a formula which provides a bigger share to the teams actually making the playoffs. B1G schools received about $2.5 million each from the playoff pools last year. Of course, ND received $0 in 2025. Thus, conference affiliation provides greater certainty of revenue, while independent status provides a chance for a bigger payday. I would think that if ND is considering a conference affiliation, they would gravitate towards conferences that allow actual playoff teams to keep a larger portion of the revenue generated, with smaller shares going to non-playoff teams.

In summary, there does not appear to be any financial impediment to conference affiliation. Rather, it is likely to present an opportunity to increase broadcast rights revenue.

Have additional reasons developed, pro or con, regarding independent status?

The world has changed dramatically from the days when Notre Dame’s policy of independence, driven by recruiting and fan base considerations, was a necessity. The college football of today would be unrecognizable to a fan in the 1970s. The internet, the rise of social media, and the increase in $$ dictate changes in both strategies and policies. Add to that the pressures of NIL, the portal, and a playoff format. There have been sufficient changes in the college football landscape to mandate a fresh look at whether the now century old policy of independence continues to be the best way to achieve the program’s goals.

The rise of the “super conferences” has resulted in unprecedented difficulties in building a quality independent schedule. This results in two consequences, both negative:

1. A “weak” schedule that is perceived to be under ND’s control is seen as an unfair advantage, while a similar schedule strength is not held against a conference-affiliated team, since they don’t have the same kind of “freedom” of scheduling.

2. Playing a weaker schedule is not necessarily the best preparation for a playoff run. “Iron sharpens iron.” Playing a more competitive schedule, over time, will result in a better product on the field.

In short, college football has changed drastically since Notre Dame developed its policy of independence in football. Those changes significantly mitigate, and in some cases eliminate, the drivers of that policy. All that remains, then, is to see how modern conference affiliation squares with the historical goals of the program.

How does potential conference affiliation promote the historical goals of Notre Dame football?

Competing for a national championship, reinforcing the national brand in terms of both fan base and recruiting, and adhering to high academic standards, remain the goals of the program. To this we can add “generating sufficient revenue to continue to fund the program, support non-revenue sports, and contribute significantly to the University’s general fund.” How does conference affiliation promote these goals?

Competing for a national championship.

What did we learn from the playoff snub debacle of 2025? We learned that you can improve your CFP ranking by playing in a conference championship game, even if you get stoned. We learned that there are a lot of people (committee members?) who hold Notre Dame’s independent status against them. The notorious MOU which supposedly assures ND of a playoff position if it finishes in the top 12 provides little comfort when we see what the committee did this year by moving Alabama ahead of ND.

To be honest, if the CFP goes to 16 teams, ND should be in every year, especially if they do away with or limit automatic qualifiers. But we have seen very small distinctions have very large consequences. And if the goal is a national championship, the strategy should be to follow the path with the fewest obstacles to getting there, without compromising other program values. So, removing negative perceptions about scheduling, and striving for superior seeding and byes should be goals as well. Resolving the scheduling issues as suggested above provides not the only, but the clearest, path to a national championship.

Reinforcing the national brand.

Notre Dame’s national brand is already well-established. Arguably, it is the only program that can legitimately claim “national” status. The geographic and numerical expansion of the major conferences, and the availability of multiple broadcast platforms, means that it is now quite feasible to both belong to a conference and play a quality schedule that is national in scope, thus continuing to reinforce the brand.

Adhering to high academic standards.

ND’s academic standards are a strictly internal matter. Conference affiliation is irrelevant to this goal. ND’s GPA and academic progress benchmarks already meet or exceed those of any conference, as evidenced by the Irish’s perennial top national ranking in Graduation Success Rate.

Generating sufficient revenue.

As shown above, joining either the SEC or the B1G will likely result in an increase in broadcast rights revenue on the order of 20-25% in the short term, and more than that down the road. While there may be some decrease in post-season compensation, there’s a floor that prevents conference members from being shut out of playoff $$, as the Irish were this year. Consistent revenue streams become increasingly important in the NIL/portal world.

Conclusion: The Time is Right for Notre Dame to Join a Conference.

Joining a conference — provided it’s the right conference — is consistent with the long standing goals of the program. Notre Dame’s policy of independence was the right thing to do at the time it was adopted. In 1968, when the process for determining national champs changed, ND changed their philosophy on bowl game participation to realign it with their goal of a national championship. Since then, college football has changed dramatically in a number of ways. It’s time to, once again, change policy to realign it with the goal of winning a national championship.

Which conference is right for Notre Dame?

That’s probably the easiest question of all to answer. It’s the B1G by a landslide. For those who still think it’s important, the geographic fit is perfect. On the field, the B1G is ascending. Its revenue distribution is a significant upgrade on ND’s current broadcast deal. It’s in every major market. A 9 game conference schedule plus Navy still gives ND the opportunity to find a couple of games in the Deep South and/or Southwest. Historical rivalries like Michigan and USC will be preserved, and new ones will develop, such as Ohio State and, dare I say it, Indiana. It’s a no-brainer.

So, that’s my take on the issue. Surprised?

Very well thought out post. Lots of information and substance to back it up. I 100% agree with you and I am not a Notre Dame fan. Big 10, by far, is the best fit, both by competition and geography. Excellent rivalries with Michigan, Ohio State, USC, and Indiana along with Penn State. 10-2, maybe even 9-3 when the CFP field expands to 16 soon, will get the Irish in. 

[Coach Nowlin]

21 minutes ago, Bobref said:

 

Conclusion: The Time is Right for Notre Dame to Join a Conference.

Joining a conference — provided it’s the right conference — is consistent with the long standing goals of the program. Notre Dame’s policy of independence was the right thing to do at the time it was adopted. In 1968, when the process for determining national champs changed, ND changed their philosophy on bowl game participation to realign it with their goal of a national championship. Since then, college football has changed dramatically in a number of ways. It’s time to, once again, change policy to realign it with the goal of winning a national championship.

Which conference is right for Notre Dame?

That’s probably the easiest question of all to answer. It’s the B1G by a landslide. For those who still think it’s important, the geographic fit is perfect. On the field, the B1G is ascending. Its revenue distribution is a significant upgrade on ND’s current broadcast deal. It’s in every major market. A 9 game conference schedule plus Navy still gives ND the opportunity to find a couple of games in the Deep South and/or Southwest. Historical rivalries like Michigan and USC will be preserved, and new ones will develop, such as Ohio State and, dare I say it, Indiana. It’s a no-brainer.

So, that’s my take on the issue. Surprised?

Concur on your assessment and presentation 

HOWEVER

Sub out Conference, for Corporation   😀

I think we are still not done with the reshaping of what we have known to love as collegiate athletics.   

I expect a full breakaway from NCAA by the Big 4 Corporations within the next 5-10 years, if not sooner, depending on Feds and what they do on the settlement.   

[23andCounting]

Good read @Bobref. Thanks for that. 

I'm a traditionalist, so as long as Notre Dame opts to keep their independence, I stand by them 100%. If they decide to join a conference, I trust that the administrators did their due diligence, therefore I'd stand by their decision in doing so. 

[Komets2727]

7 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Good read @Bobref. Thanks for that. 

I'm a traditionalist, so as long as Notre Dame opts to keep their independence, I stand by them 100%. If they decide to join a conference, I trust that the administrators did their due diligence, therefore I'd stand by their decision in doing so. 

Way to straddle the fence 23. The best move for ND is to join the Big 10. SOS will be strong, they can still schedule Navy, and if they can go 10-2 or better, guaranteed they will be in the CFP. Win win all the way around 

[23andCounting]

2 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Way to straddle the fence 23. The best move for ND is to join the Big 10. SOS will be strong, they can still schedule Navy, and if they can go 10-2 or better, guaranteed they will be in the CFP. Win win all the way around 

I'm just a fan, what I think doesn't matter. I love Notre Dame and what the University stand for. I trust the administrators to make the right decision. It's my hope that the Irish remain independent. I've always had a soft spot for the outliers, and in this case, it's my favorite team. So yeah, I kind of enjoy "us against the world" and all the bitching toward us that comes with it. 

[Komets2727]

2 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

I'm just a fan, what I think doesn't matter. I love Notre Dame and what the University stand for. I trust the administrators to make the right decision. It's my hope that the Irish remain independent. I've always had a soft spot for the outliers, and in this case, it's my favorite team. So yeah, I kind of enjoy "us against the world" and all the bitching toward us that comes with it. 

We are all just fans, frankly, the whining came from Irish fans such as yourself when you didn’t make the CFP. See the writing on the wall. 

[23andCounting]

1 minute ago, Komets2727 said:

We are all just fans, frankly, the whining came from Irish fans such as yourself when you didn’t make the CFP. See the writing on the wall. 

The whining was justified. Not so sure your Hoosiers would have beaten them last weekend. 

[Komets2727]

6 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

The whining was justified. Not so sure your Hoosiers would have beaten them last weekend. 

Based on what? Certainly not results on the field where they failed going 0-2 vs. top 10 teams and CFP teams. I got Indiana at minimum a 7-8 point favorite vs. Notre Dame this year based on results. There isn’t any team in the country with a better resume than the Hoosiers. There is zero dispute in that. 

[23andCounting]

7 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Based on what? Certainly not results on the field where they failed going 0-2 vs. top 10 teams and CFP teams. I got Indiana at minimum a 7-8 point favorite vs. Notre Dame this year based on results. There isn’t any team in the country with a better resume than the Hoosiers. There is zero dispute in that. 

Not going to debate that with you. IU's resume is good. Just saying Notre Dame would have had a chance, just as Penn State, Iowa, and Ohio State did. 

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, 23andCounting said:

Not going to debate that with you. IU's resume is good. Just saying Notre Dame would have had a chance, just as Penn State, Iowa, and Ohio State did. 

Indiana is not unbeatable, but it is going to take a special effort to beat the Hoosiers this year. Penn State was a good team with lots of 4-5 star players. Once they got the ship righted after a rocky period, they were playing very good football. Iowa was an underrated team that would have been a top 3 team in the SEC. Ohio State is Ohio State. 

[PHJIrish]

2 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Based on what? Certainly not results on the field where they failed going 0-2 vs. top 10 teams and CFP teams. I got Indiana at minimum a 7-8 point favorite vs. Notre Dame this year based on results. There isn’t any team in the country with a better resume than the Hoosiers. There is zero dispute in that. 

The Irish should at least had the opportunity to play IU or whoever in the "CFP."  If that's whining, I admit to whining!  

[Sparty]

Yes.  The Sun Belt.  

[Bobref]

10 hours ago, Sparty said:

Yes.  The Sun Belt.  

Thanks for that valuable contribution to the dialogue.

[Sparty]

You’re welcome.  

[CoachGallogly]

I don’t get the sense that conference arrangement has stabilized. While it’s beneficial to have the conversation at the university level, I don’t think the time has come to finalize any decisions. It would seem ND has great leverage and joining a league only to see it carved up by others then joining another hurts that leverage greatly. 
 

When the dust settles on major college football I wouldn’t be shocked to see just two conferences (leagues) remain. Looking more like the NFL model with a clear playoff pipeline.  At that point it’ll be time. 

[Bobref]

4 minutes ago, CoachGallogly said:

It would seem ND has great leverage

This is an important point. But I believe ND overestimates the leverage it has. I also believe they will have less leverage, not more, going forward.

[Bash Riprock]

52 minutes ago, Bobref said:

This is an important point. But I believe ND overestimates the leverage it has. I also believe they will have less leverage, not more, going forward.

First, great initial write-up.  Your spelling was impeccable!!

I agree with your comment above.  I think with the BIG and SEC specifically going to 9 conference games, will get tougher for them to want to schedule ND.  ND's recent TV ratings performance isn't helping either.  (see below)

The world continues to change with the college football landscape.  I remember the days of a number of CFB independents; ND, Penn State, Miami, Pitt, Florida State, West Virginia, BYU, Syracuse, Virgina Tech, Boston College, Army, Navy, etc.  Now there are 2 schools independent...ND and UConn.....with the latter not a major program.  ND used to have rivalries with a number of other independents....now, not so much.  

I agree with you...ND can't ignore this changing landscape, and they haven't for all other varsity sports.  I believe a major reason ND was left out this year, is that they had no one fighting for them.  The ACC certainly wasn't going to argue for ND, and they couldn't and shouldn't.  

https://frontofficesports.com/notre-dames-tv-ratings-dont-match-its-reputation/

Notre Dame carries itself like an irreplaceable television attraction, when in reality, it has become more of a middle-of-the-road TV draw. The hard truth for Subway Alumni is this: When it comes to national TV appeal, the Irish are now more Indianapolis Colts than Dallas Cowboys. Consider:

• The 10–2 Irish didn’t rank among the top 10 most-watched college football teams this year, according to Nielsen. In fact, their average viewing audience of 3,925,000 viewers ranked them No. 15, behind Florida, Ole Miss, South Carolina, and Florida State. And ahead of Vanderbilt, Missouri, Penn State, and Miami.
• The most-watched team was Alabama, averaging more than double Notre Dame’s viewers at 8,493,000, followed by Texas, Georgia, Ohio State, and Oklahoma. Overall, SEC teams accounted for 4 of the 5 most-watched schools—and 8 of the top 10.
• According to Nielsen, Notre Dame played in only one of the top 20 most-watched college football games this year. It drew a season-high 10.8 million viewers vs. Miami for its season opener on Aug. 31. Ironically, the committee pointed to that 27–24 road loss to the Hurricanes as the reason the Irish didn’t make the playoff cut. Even Notre Dame’s 34–23 victory over rival USC on Oct. 18 didn’t pop a big number. NBC’s broadcast averaged 2,998,000 viewers, trailing three SEC matchups on ABC: 6,046,000 for Mississippi-Georgia; 4,913,000 for Alabama-Tennessee; and 3,875,000 for LSU-Vanderbilt.

[Coach Nowlin]

1 hour ago, CoachGallogly said:

 When the dust settles on major college football I wouldn’t be shocked to see just two conferences (leagues) remain. Looking more like the NFL model with a clear playoff pipeline.  At that point it’ll be time. 

Perhaps with Divisions of 4/6 teams in these 2 corporations set up:  You know, perhaps like NFC or AFC. 🙂

 

[23andCounting]

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

This is an important point. But I believe ND overestimates the leverage it has. I also believe they will have less leverage, not more, going forward.

They may have less leverage in 2028 than they did in 2023, but a large piece of the pie will still be willing to schedule the Irish. They may miss out on an Alabama, and LSU, or a USC, but that's just a small piece of the pie. Cignetti has balls that most programs don't possess. I doubt he'd turn down Notre Dame if they came calling. I don't see any teams in the ACC or Big 12 saying "no." Those programs need a team like Notre Dame to boost their resume. 

[Rodney]

21 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Indiana is not unbeatable, but it is going to take a special effort to beat the Hoosiers this year. Penn State was a good team with lots of 4-5 star players. Once they got the ship righted after a rocky period, they were playing very good football. Iowa was an underrated team that would have been a top 3 team in the SEC. Ohio State is Ohio State. 

Iowa massively underrated

[23andCounting]

I wouldn't necessarily call for the death of Notre Dame viewership. In 2022 and 2023 they had the #5 most viewed games. Didn't make the top ten in 2024, but came in at #8 in 2025. So let's not pretend Notre Dame doesn't garner national interest. Strength of schedule hasn't done the Irish any favors in the department as of late. At the end of the day, programs like Ohio State, Alabama, and Georgia have more marquee games than ND does through the course of the season. 

 

[Irishman]

8 hours ago, CoachGallogly said:

When the dust settles on major college football I wouldn’t be shocked to see just two conferences (leagues) remain. Looking more like the NFL model with a clear playoff pipeline.  At that point it’ll be time. 

It will be interesting to see who continues to play the NIL game as it stands now with no regulation. Cuban won't say how much he gave to IU, but it's a significant amount. Michigan State has a war chest of $400 Million. Texas Tech has the oil man who pumped major cash into the program. Oregon has Nike on board, There are several other examples as well. And if your program has not invested significantly yet, or your roster has been decimated by the transfer portal, it's too late. For programs like Iowa State and Oklahoma State, they will have to spend as much as those other programs just to field a full roster. If they want to even consider being in the playoff picture, they will have to spend twice as much to reach that level. Looking at the power 4 conferences, there are a number of programs within each that are not spending at that level. The conferences as we know them may look significantly different in just a matter of a couple of years. 

[Bobref]

11 hours ago, Irishman said:

It will be interesting to see who continues to play the NIL game as it stands now with no regulation. Cuban won't say how much he gave to IU, but it's a significant amount. Michigan State has a war chest of $400 Million. Texas Tech has the oil man who pumped major cash into the program. Oregon has Nike on board, There are several other examples as well. And if your program has not invested significantly yet, or your roster has been decimated by the transfer portal, it's too late. For programs like Iowa State and Oklahoma State, they will have to spend as much as those other programs just to field a full roster. If they want to even consider being in the playoff picture, they will have to spend twice as much to reach that level. Looking at the power 4 conferences, there are a number of programs within each that are not spending at that level. The conferences as we know them may look significantly different in just a matter of a couple of years. 

The college football world is finding out what the pros discovered long ago. If you’re going to pay players, you need a salary structure, or at least an overall cap, or the thing just descends into chaos. I remember back before the NCAA limited teams to 85 scholarships, teams like Alabama would just stockpile players to keep them off competitors’ rosters. The limit on scholarships was intended to promote parity. They will have to do the same with NIL.

[Bash Riprock]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

The college football world is finding out what the pros discovered long ago. If you’re going to pay players, you need a salary structure, or at least an overall cap, or the thing just descends into chaos. I remember back before the NCAA limited teams to 85 scholarships, teams like Alabama would just stockpile players to keep them off competitors’ rosters. The limit on scholarships was intended to promote parity. They will have to do the same with NIL.

Agree....I just wonder "who is they"?  NCAA doesn't seem to care or have the power.  As Coach N has predicted, does the P4 plus ND pull away and establish their own governance??