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Looks like Penn-Mishawaka is back starting in 2023.  Good to see. https://twitter.com/cavemensports/status/1351938511440654343?s=20

If I'm the NLC, I'm not interested in expanding further.  8 is about a perfect number (for football) in my opinion because it allows you to play every conference opponent yet retain the flexibility to

I agree. However, keep in mind Penn has played DAC schools in basketball on school nights for years, and Elkhart plays Valpo and Chesterton this year. The travel would be tougher in football, but you

On 1/5/2021 at 10:52 AM, DT said:

The best way to eliminate the longest potential road trips in the expanded DAC would be for Penn, Elkhart, Lake Central and Crown Point to play their games on saturdays at Ames Field in Michigan City.  A Saturday afternoon DAC Double Header at Ames would be a good drwa for the local community.

Saturdays belong to college football, particularly in this area of the state.  Don't think there would be too much interest in the local community if it's competing against a Notre Dame game.  Friday night?  Completely different story.  

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On 1/5/2021 at 11:21 AM, DT said:

Football conference only

How many of these exist?  I wouldn't think there is much value to be in a conference for just football.  If you want to do that, just go independent and schedule who you want in football.

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43 minutes ago, XStar said:

Saturdays belong to college football, particularly in this area of the state.  Don't think there would be too much interest in the local community if it's competing against a Notre Dame game.  Friday night?  Completely different story.  

Disagree. You’d have people from all over the Region coming to those games. I’d even go as far as saying they’d probably be sold out almost every year. Many people in the area couldn’t care less about Notre Dame or even college football in general. A Saturday double header at Ames would be a huge draw. 

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I don't think Saturday football for high school is the way to go, especially up north. There have been DAC games over the years played on Saturday due to weather, and I have yet to see one of those games have large crowds. What you end up with are a crowd full of parents. Saturday high school football has too much competition with a lot of things beyond the fact, what coaches want to be at school another afternoon or evening in the Fall if they don't have too. Come in maybe for film or JV game and you are done by 1 on Saturday to be with family and friends. On occasion, for a special event, Saturday's yes, but for regular conference games, too much else happening. 

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My intent was not to talk about Elkhart and Penn (which had it's own thread) but my first two points and new conference possibility for the other schools besides Elkhart and Penn.  

Does this indicate that other schools aren't relevant, the NIC (the oldest conference in Indiana), or St. Joe Valley high school football?

If that is the case...it's a sad day.

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On 1/5/2021 at 11:21 AM, DT said:

Football conference only

Maybe it’s time people look at this idea more seriously.  Not to change the focus of the thread but the North isn’t the only place where it night be beneficial for some realignment solely for football.  That said, I do agree that it would be most beneficial in the North as regards their 5A and (especially) 6A teams.

Still, as an example, East Central (with the exception of Lawrenceburg) generally only finds its best competition in its non-conference schedule versus Indy area teams and (nearby) Cincy teams.

Same could be said of Columbus East in the Hoosier Hills as regards football (although I sense they may be contact with it....and it certainly hasn’t hurt them post-season).

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13 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Maybe it’s time people look at this idea more seriously.  Not to change the focus of the thread but the North isn’t the only place where it night be beneficial for some realignment solely for football.  That said, I do agree that it would be most beneficial in the North as regards their 5A and (especially) 6A teams.

Still, as an example, East Central (with the exception of Lawrenceburg) generally only finds its best competition in its non-conference schedule versus Indy area teams and (nearby) Cincy teams.

Same could be said of Columbus East in the Hoosier Hills as regards football (although I sense they may be contact with it....and it certainly hasn’t hurt them post-season).

 

14 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Maybe it’s time people look at this idea more seriously.  Not to change the focus of the thread but the North isn’t the only place where it night be beneficial for some realignment solely for football.  That said, I do agree that it would be most beneficial in the North as regards their 5A and (especially) 6A teams.

Still, as an example, East Central (with the exception of Lawrenceburg) generally only finds its best competition in its non-conference schedule versus Indy area teams and (nearby) Cincy teams.

Same could be said of Columbus East in the Hoosier Hills as regards football (although I sense they may be contact with it....and it certainly hasn’t hurt them post-season).

Penn is a very diferent animal.  A case could be made for Penn to join the DAC for football and baseball, and  stay in The NIC for boys and girls basketball and go independent in all other sports.  Individual sports like golf, track, cross country, swimming, tennis do not need a conference connection.  Penn excels in many of these sports and already travels extensively to Ft Wayne, NWI and Indianapolis to find strong competition.  

 

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56 minutes ago, DT said:

Penn is a very diferent animal.  A case could be made for Penn to join the DAC for football and baseball, and  stay in The NIC for boys and girls basketball and go independent in all other sports.  Individual sports like golf, track, cross country, swimming, tennis do not need a conference connection.  Penn excels in many of these sports and already travels extensively to Ft Wayne, NWI and Indianapolis to find strong competition.

The thing is that Penn could move to the DAC in all sports and still play games against some programs in the NIC to fill out the schedule. So many schedules feature numerous DAC programs while Penn participates in the NIC. It would not require major reshuffling. Not to say that your solution wouldn't work, of course, just that it's probably not necessary. 

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30 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

The thing is that Penn could move to the DAC in all sports and still play games against some programs in the NIC to fill out the schedule. So many schedules feature numerous DAC programs while Penn participates in the NIC. It would not require major reshuffling. Not to say that your solution wouldn't work, of course, just that it's probably not necessary. 

I do think that freshman and jayvee games, as well as non revenue sports create travel and time management problems for Penn should they go all in with the DAC.   Friday night football is fairly easy to manage.  Tuesday nigfht JV volleyball and track are totally different issues.

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18 minutes ago, DT said:

I do think that freshman and jayvee games, as well as non revenue sports create travel and time management problems for Penn should they go all in with the DAC.   Friday night football is fairly easy to manage.  Tuesday nigfht JV volleyball and track are totally different issues.

I agree that there are some more complex travel issues. In my mind, it's just as important for football that freshman and JV teams are playing the conference opponents. I'd be fine with a football only arrangement, just, again, not sure it's totally necessary.

If the DAC and Penn wanted it, I'm sure scheduling could get creative enough to get the long trips onto weekend/friday nights for most sports while trips to LaPorte, Michigan City, Valpo and Chesterton could be played at any time. I just remember how easily things fell apart over travel, and I just don't think it needs to be that way. I also think Mishawaka backing out of going to the DAC was more important than travel for Penn back then. 

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16 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

I agree that there are some more complex travel issues. In my mind, it's just as important for football that freshman and JV teams are playing the conference opponents. I'd be fine with a football only arrangement, just, again, not sure it's totally necessary.

If the DAC and Penn wanted it, I'm sure scheduling could get creative enough to get the long trips onto weekend/friday nights for most sports while trips to LaPorte, Michigan City, Valpo and Chesterton could be played at any time. I just remember how easily things fell apart over travel, and I just don't think it needs to be that way. I also think Mishawaka backing out of going to the DAC was more important than travel for Penn back then. 

Mishawaka is really too small for the DAC.  They made a great move to The NLC and will be there for a very long time.  

I mentioned it previously, but it would be fun to see the too furthest road trips (Elkhart and Penn to Crown Point and Lake Central) eliminated by nuetral site games in Michigan City   That is a fantastic facility and would be a good draw with all the Lakefront activities and the casino.  

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18 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Does this indicate that other schools aren't relevant, the NIC (the oldest conference in Indiana), or St. Joe Valley high school football?

If that is the case...it's a sad day.

Trying to get back on track with you, I don't know what this really means for the other schools, at least in football.

Marian is relevant for now and maybe into the future. I think the parochial schools in this area have proven to be more boom and bust than the traditional parochial powers in the state, but that's no reason to believe they can't sustain success. Mishawaka leaving for the NLC was a damaging event for the NIC. The South Bend schools are a non-factor in football. Even Washington's mini-renaissance from 2008-2011 feels like a lifetime ago - and those were some very good teams! 

The NIC, having grown into this twelve school amalgam split into two divisions, feels like a conference without an identity. 

I think that it's in the conference's best interest for Penn and, probably, Elkhart to move along. I don't know if that power vacuum would positively affect the NIC, but I don't think it would be a negative for the remaining members. 

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6 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

Trying to get back on track with you, I don't know what this really means for the other schools, at least in football.

Marian is relevant for now and maybe into the future. I think the parochial schools in this area have proven to be more boom and bust than the traditional parochial powers in the state, but that's no reason to believe they can't sustain success. Mishawaka leaving for the NLC was a damaging event for the NIC. The South Bend schools are a non-factor in football. Even Washington's mini-renaissance from 2008-2011 feels like a lifetime ago - and those were some very good teams! 

The NIC, having grown into this twelve school amalgam split into two divisions, feels like a conference without an identity. 

I think that it's in the conference's best interest for Penn and, probably, Elkhart to move along. I don't know if that power vacuum would positively affect the NIC, but I don't think it would be a negative for the remaining members. 

In my view, the problem resides primarily with the SB Athletic Department.  They are letting the conference down by allowing their football programs to decline so much.  They have the control to get creative and do what is necessary to make their programs more competitive.  They should drop football at at least one, and maybe two of the schools.  The NIC becomes a very balanced conference minus Penn and Elkhart and minus at least one SBC  school program.

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1 minute ago, DT said:

Mishawaka is really too small for the DAC

It's possible, but Mishawaka always had the toughest players. I think that Coach Aldrich's teams finished strong and Coach Curtis had success against us and teams in the DAC. I think their profile would have kept them competitive, but probably a higher degree of difficulty for them in the DAC based on size for football. 

 

6 minutes ago, DT said:

it would be fun to see the too furthest road trips (Elkhart and Penn to Crown Point and Lake Central) eliminated by nuetral site games in Michigan City   That is a fantastic facility and would be a good draw with all the Lakefront activities and the casino.

I don't hate the idea, although I loved going to Lake Central every time we had a game there. It just felt mean over there. 

Ames is awesome, and that could be good. Maybe even a way to handle freshman and JV games if schools don't want to relinquish a Friday night at home.

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3 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

It's possible, but Mishawaka always had the toughest players. I think that Coach Aldrich's teams finished strong and Coach Curtis had success against us and teams in the DAC. I think their profile would have kept them competitive, but probably a higher degree of difficulty for them in the DAC based on size for football. 

 

I don't hate the idea, although I loved going to Lake Central every time we had a game there. It just felt mean over there. 

Ames is awesome, and that could be good. Maybe even a way to handle freshman and JV games if schools don't want to relinquish a Friday night at home.

The NLC will soften up Mishawaka over  time.  Its a country club conference where the outdoor lake life takes precedence over high school sports.

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5 minutes ago, DT said:

Its a country club conference where the outdoor lake life takes precedence over high school sports.

Agree. To some extent at least.

5 minutes ago, DT said:

The NLC will soften up Mishawaka over  time.

Disagree. Impossible. Mishawaka's toughness is immutable. 

12 minutes ago, DT said:

In my view, the problem resides primarily with the SB Athletic Department.

I'd be curious to hear from @LaSalle Lions 1976 on this. The disfunction, at least from the outside, has always seemed to be at a corporation level on top of any disfunction within the athletic department at the corporation level. Not sure how the interplay between the corporation's department and the schools' departments works out.

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2 hours ago, MICFan34 said:

How do the three small schools (Bremen, John Glenn, and Jimtown) compete in other sports besides football? 

In Basketball this year, Glenn is second and New Prairie is third the conference.  In Boys swimming, Riley and Penn dominate.  In Softball, Bremen is the reigning state champ.

As of now for the all sports championship...the South Bend boys are the bottom four and the South Bend girls are in the bottom five.

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Just now, PDB26 said:

Agree. To some extent at least.

Disagree. Impossible. Mishawaka's toughness is immutable. 

I'd be curious to hear from @LaSalle Lions 1976 on this. The disfunction, at least from the outside, has always seemed to be at a corporation level on top of any disfunction within the athletic department at the corporation level. Not sure how the interplay between the corporation's department and the schools' departments works out.

Yes, the issue is more on the top than be bottom.  Like other big town schools, most of the best athletes are either not interested or not eligible.  I would also say that about one third of all high school students attend all four high school by the end of their high school years.

Back to this issue at the top...they have had a lot of turnover with the corporation AD...this is his first year and doesn't seem to have a plan to improve athletics.

South Bend usually has a couple of good basketball teams, Riley in boys swimming, and cross country.

In football, there are some big problems...most school don't have the depth of talent at the coaching level, especially in the junior high.  There is no direct feeder from any junior high to high school.  There is no formal little league program.  So most kid don't even start formal tackle football until 6th grade.

That is a thumbnail of the issues.  It will be a long climb back for all school.  Until then, there will be the occasional great team, but not much more.

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16 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Yes, the issue is more on the top than be bottom.  Like other big town schools, most of the best athletes are either not interested or not eligible.  I would also say that about one third of all high school students attend all four high school by the end of their high school years.

Back to this issue at the top...they have had a lot of turnover with the corporation AD...this is his first year and doesn't seem to have a plan to improve athletics.

South Bend usually has a couple of good basketball teams, Riley in boys swimming, and cross country.

In football, there are some big problems...most school don't have the depth of talent at the coaching level, especially in the junior high.  There is no direct feeder from any junior high to high school.  There is no formal little league program.  So most kid don't even start formal tackle football until 6th grade.

That is a thumbnail of the issues.  It will be a long climb back for all school.  Until then, there will be the occasional great team, but not much more.

Consolidation is a shortcut to success

Elkhart and Hammond have chosen this route.

No reason SB cant do the same. Too many fiefdoms and no leadership  They need someone to Unite the Clans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2oJhWi5SQ4

 

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17 minutes ago, DT said:

Consolidation is a shortcut to success

Elkhart and Hammond have chosen this route.

No reason SB cant do the same. Too many fiefdoms and no leadership  They need someone to Unite the Clans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2oJhWi5SQ4

 

South Bend had a review of their facilities and were told they should cut down by 5 to 8 school buildings.  They will begin discussions on what to do with that recommendation.

Right now, no one knows what buildings will be on the chopping block.  My high school recommendation is listed earlier in the blog.

South Bend should cut to three high school...all about 1600 students.

Our superintendent is a rising star in education.  Hard to see him doing something safe about this.

The school board is pretty much a rubber stamp for his ideas.

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3 hours ago, MICFan34 said:

How do the three small schools (Bremen, John Glenn, and Jimtown) compete in other sports besides football? 

A bit of a specific example, but Bremen just beat Penn Tuesday night in basketball. It's the first time the Lions have beaten the Kingsman since joining the NIC. The previous 5 games were blowouts with Penn having a 31 point average margin of victory.

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8 hours ago, MICFan34 said:

How do the three small schools (Bremen, John Glenn, and Jimtown) compete in other sports besides football? 

I don’t think the 3 smaller schools embarrass themselves. They all have sports they are strong in, they all have sports they are weak in. The NIC is a step up from the old NSC days, but as a whole they hold their own.

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