Hypothetical - What happens if the NCC breaks apart?

[Obi-Wan]

47 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I see your point.  But I don't think even a re-tooled NCC as described here would help the likes of a Western or WL in a tournament run, not unless the overall strength of the NCC programs improve.

 

The retooled NCC that is being described in here would not help those programs. There are certain pieces that can get them their, but not with the likes of Logansport ( and that's no shot a Johnson).

[Guest DT]

50 minutes ago, Obi-Wan said:

The retooled NCC that is being described in here would not help those programs. There are certain pieces that can get them their, but not with the likes of Logansport ( and that's no shot a Johnson).

Seems like the focus and priority in the east is basketball and in the west is football.

There is a logical and philosophical break for this conference.  They should just do the logical thing and split into two 5 school conferences, and let each decide if they want to expand further.  I like the western football core of Jeff, Harrison, Mac, Logan and Kokomo.  

[Lysander]

On 2/7/2021 at 11:09 PM, BigBH said:

the 1980's want to know does anybody really care?

Heh.....more like “the 1970’s want to know.....”

Edited February 9, 2021 by Lysander

[Gipper]

1 hour ago, DE said:

Huh?  I am pretty sure that Sectional the last few years, regardless if they played in their conference or the SEC, would've made that much of a difference.

Perhaps, but with WL making the jump to 4A, they will need tougher regular season competition.   I believe they were beaten by Guerin the first round back in November.

[Lysander]

1 hour ago, Gipper said:

Perhaps, but with WL making the jump to 4A, they will need tougher regular season competition.   I believe they were beaten by Guerin the first round back in November.

Is WL 4A this next cycle? 

[Gipper]

1 minute ago, Lysander said:

Is WL 4A this next cycle? 

I saw they’re up there 

[Bears62]

I think if Jeff, Harrison and Mcc are not able to join a more premier, already structured  conference, which is already pretty unlikely, the ideal conference setup would be: Jeff, Harrison, Mccutcheon, West Lafayette, Kokomo, Lebanon, Western and Logansport. I would bet Kokomo becomes a solid team within a couple of years, they are only a few years removed from a 5a state title game appearance. Western has been fairly solid for a while now and Lebanon has been at least somewhat decent recently. Not exactly a power conference, but it would give each schools 2 out of conference games and the Lafayette trio gets to dump cupcake games against Anderson, Muncie Central and Richmond. Travel would also be slightly better. Heck Logansport even won their sectional this year, they seem to be trending upwards as well

[Muda69]

6 minutes ago, Bears62 said:

I think if Jeff, Harrison and Mcc are not able to join a more premier, already structured  conference, which is already pretty unlikely, the ideal conference setup would be: Jeff, Harrison, Mccutcheon, West Lafayette, Kokomo, Lebanon, Western and Logansport. I would bet Kokomo becomes a solid team within a couple of years, they are only a few years removed from a 5a state title game appearance. Western has been fairly solid for a while now and Lebanon has been at least somewhat decent recently. Not exactly a power conference, but it would give each schools 2 out of conference games and the Lafayette trio gets to dump cupcake games against Anderson, Muncie Central and Richmond. Travel would also be slightly better. Heck Logansport even won their sectional this year, they seem to be trending upwards as well

Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Gipper]

19 minutes ago, Bears62 said:

I think if Jeff, Harrison and Mcc are not able to join a more premier, already structured  conference, which is already pretty unlikely, the ideal conference setup would be: Jeff, Harrison, Mccutcheon, West Lafayette, Kokomo, Lebanon, Western and Logansport. I would bet Kokomo becomes a solid team within a couple of years, they are only a few years removed from a 5a state title game appearance. Western has been fairly solid for a while now and Lebanon has been at least somewhat decent recently. Not exactly a power conference, but it would give each schools 2 out of conference games and the Lafayette trio gets to dump cupcake games against Anderson, Muncie Central and Richmond. Travel would also be slightly better. Heck Logansport even won their sectional this year, they seem to be trending upwards as well

Good point.  We saw what happened when Tippecanoe County tried to rub elbows with the Hoosier Crossroads Conference and I do think Kokomo, Lebanon, and Logansport have more in common with Lafayette than Fishers and Westfield do. 

[Obi-Wan]

59 minutes ago, Bears62 said:

I think if Jeff, Harrison and Mcc are not able to join a more premier, already structured  conference, which is already pretty unlikely, the ideal conference setup would be: Jeff, Harrison, Mccutcheon, West Lafayette, Kokomo, Lebanon, Western and Logansport. I would bet Kokomo becomes a solid team within a couple of years, they are only a few years removed from a 5a state title game appearance. Western has been fairly solid for a while now and Lebanon has been at least somewhat decent recently. Not exactly a power conference, but it would give each schools 2 out of conference games and the Lafayette trio gets to dump cupcake games against Anderson, Muncie Central and Richmond. Travel would also be slightly better. Heck Logansport even won their sectional this year, they seem to be trending upwards as well

Ding Ding Ding, although I feel like this is rehashing what most have been saying in this thread. This version has rivalries and leaves two weeks open for great opponents. And they could keep the NCC name because they are truly North Central of Central Indiana now.  

 

 

[GFND74]

6 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

Didn't the NCC pretty much purge New Castle or am I not remembering that correctly?

If I remember correctly, I think so. Or atleast New Castle felt that way. I'm pretty sure it was split and a couple of the schools really fought to keep New Castle, but weren't able to. As a Marion fan, I definitely miss New Castle more basketball wise than football wise(although they've had some decent teams down there lately).

 

As for football and the conference, ugh. It needs something for sure. Its clearly Jeff, a decent sized gap, then Harrison. The Giants have been good, but they aren't as good as Jeff and beating up on everyone else doesn't help when you play teams like Hobart in the tournament. 

[GFND74]

On 2/6/2021 at 8:33 PM, Gipper said:

Anderson, Marion, Muncie Central, Richmond, and Tech comprising the east.  Expansion will be needed.  Lebanon, Western, and West Lafayette to the west, and I guess the eastern division can poach whomever they want: maybe Yorktown, Delta, and Jay County.

I could see Mississinewa being more willing than Delta. They're almost as big as Marion now, they've been even with the Giants(who i don't think has given up points to Anderson, Central, and Richmond in a couple seasons), and they maybe would enjoy being in a conference they can win without hoping Eastbrook has a bad day.

[HoopsCoach]

4 hours ago, Gipper said:

Perhaps, but with WL making the jump to 4A, they will need tougher regular season competition.   I believe they were beaten by Guerin the first round back in November.

I don’t think West Lafayette will be in 4A.  Based on the enrollment data from September, here is what the bottom of 4A and top of 3A could be.

4A (bottom 9 including success factor)

South Bend Saint Joseph	831
Norwell	829
Western	824
Brebeuf	816
Angola	814
Delta	806
South Bend Washington	805
Indianapolis Bishop Chatard	673
Evansville Memorial	559

3A (top 9)

Indianapolis Washington	789
Yorktown	782
Madison	776
Scottsburg	767
Hamilton Heights	763
Edgewood	763
Mississinewa	761
Hanover Central	748
West Lafayette	743

[Guest DT]

3 hours ago, Bears62 said:

I think if Jeff, Harrison and Mcc are not able to join a more premier, already structured  conference, which is already pretty unlikely, the ideal conference setup would be: Jeff, Harrison, Mccutcheon, West Lafayette, Kokomo, Lebanon, Western and Logansport. I would bet Kokomo becomes a solid team within a couple of years, they are only a few years removed from a 5a state title game appearance. Western has been fairly solid for a while now and Lebanon has been at least somewhat decent recently. Not exactly a power conference, but it would give each schools 2 out of conference games and the Lafayette trio gets to dump cupcake games against Anderson, Muncie Central and Richmond. Travel would also be slightly better. Heck Logansport even won their sectional this year, they seem to be trending upwards as well

How long will it take before Jeff starts getting criticized for playing in a small school conference?

About one season

This set up does nothing more  to prep them for Center Grove and Carmel than does their current NCC schedule.  And Harrison is closing the gap on Jeff.  They will be subject to the same criticisms once they beat LJ 3 times straight and become conference kingpin.

[Gipper]

28 minutes ago, HoopsCoach said:

I don’t think West Lafayette will be in 4A.  Based on the enrollment data from September, here is what the bottom of 4A and top of 3A could be.

4A (bottom 9 including success factor)

South Bend Saint Joseph	831
Norwell	829
Western	824
Brebeuf	816
Angola	814
Delta	806
South Bend Washington	805
Indianapolis Bishop Chatard	673
Evansville Memorial	559

3A (top 9)

Indianapolis Washington	789
Yorktown	782
Madison	776
Scottsburg	767
Hamilton Heights	763
Edgewood	763
Mississinewa	761
Hanover Central	748
West Lafayette	743

Thanks for the clarification.

[BigBH]

5 hours ago, Lysander said:

Heh.....more like “the 1970’s want to know.....”

yes...I was debating that in my smart ass mind

[Bears62]

2 hours ago, DT said:

How long will it take before Jeff starts getting criticized for playing in a small school conference?

About one season

This set up does nothing more  to prep them for Center Grove and Carmel than does their current NCC schedule.  And Harrison is closing the gap on Jeff.  They will be subject to the same criticisms once they beat LJ 3 times straight and become conference kingpin.

Fair, but if we’re being real about it, Jeff or Harrison will most likely never be able to field teams to beat a Carmel or CG type of football team. Jeff is at the bottom of 6a and Harrison is at the top of 5a in terms of students, it would take a special group of players to take down one of the big Indy dogs. And that’s no knock on them, they hover right around 2000-2100 students which is significantly less than the contenders in 6a every year. And I disagree  that Harrison is closing the gap on Jeff. They’ve had close games with them the past 3 years or so, but just because they are growing in students doesn’t mean anything when it comes to on-field performance. Jeff is more than likely going to continue to have better athletes than Harrison. If Coach Shanley were to leave, then I could easily see Harrison overtaking them, they have a great program. The best thing that could happen for the Lafayette schools would be that the MIC and HCC see massive realignment between their schools that leaves the HCC with spots to fill.

[Gipper]

1 hour ago, Bears62 said:

Fair, but if we’re being real about it, Jeff or Harrison will most likely never be able to field teams to beat a Carmel or CG type of football team. Jeff is at the bottom of 6a and Harrison is at the top of 5a in terms of students, it would take a special group of players to take down one of the big Indy dogs. And that’s no knock on them, they hover right around 2000-2100 students which is significantly less than the contenders in 6a every year. And I disagree  that Harrison is closing the gap on Jeff. They’ve had close games with them the past 3 years or so, but just because they are growing in students doesn’t mean anything when it comes to on-field performance. Jeff is more than likely going to continue to have better athletes than Harrison. If Coach Shanley were to leave, then I could easily see Harrison overtaking them, they have a great program. The best thing that could happen for the Lafayette schools would be that the MIC and HCC see massive realignment between their schools that leaves the HCC with spots to fill.

I agree with your assessment.  It has always seemed that Jeff was a basketball first school.  I believe they and McCutcheon (not Harrison this time) are leading the NCC in hoops.

[Bears62]

18 minutes ago, Gipper said:

I agree with your assessment.  It has always seemed that Jeff was a basketball first school.  I believe they and McCutcheon (not Harrison this time) are leading the NCC in hoops.

Yes, all 3 have had their moments in recent times. I believe Harrison has consistently won the NCC award for overall performance across all sports for both boys and girls each year so it’s not like these 3 schools wouldn’t add depth to other conferences if they were to join. An unlucky location really holds them back

[Muda69]

15 hours ago, DT said:

How long will it take before Jeff starts getting criticized for playing in a small school conference?

 

Calling this newly proposed NCC a 'small school' conference is a fairly relative label, is it not?  If for some strange reason Lafayette Jefferson moves to the Hoosier Heartland conference then yes, IMHO the 'small school' label would apply.

 

12 hours ago, Bears62 said:

Jeff is more than likely going to continue to have better athletes than Harrison. 

Why?  Is this the old 'city speed' argument again?

 

[Indiana Fan]

13 hours ago, Bears62 said:

Fair, but if we’re being real about it, Jeff or Harrison will most likely never be able to field teams to beat a Carmel or CG type of football team. Jeff is at the bottom of 6a and Harrison is at the top of 5a in terms of students, it would take a special group of players to take down one of the big Indy dogs. And that’s no knock on them, they hover right around 2000-2100 students which is significantly less than the contenders in 6a every year. And I disagree  that Harrison is closing the gap on Jeff. They’ve had close games with them the past 3 years or so, but just because they are growing in students doesn’t mean anything when it comes to on-field performance. Jeff is more than likely going to continue to have better athletes than Harrison. If Coach Shanley were to leave, then I could easily see Harrison overtaking them, they have a great program. The best thing that could happen for the Lafayette schools would be that the MIC and HCC see massive realignment between their schools that leaves the HCC with spots to fill.

Harrison is on the border for 6A next year. They will either be the smallest 6A or one of the largest 5A.

[Guest DT]

21 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Calling this newly proposed NCC a 'small school' conference is a fairly relative label, is it not?  If for some strange reason Lafayette Jefferson moves to the Hoosier Heartland conference then yes, IMHO the 'small school' label would apply.

 

Why?  Is this the old 'city speed' argument again?

 

The proposed new conference includes 3a and 4a schools.  (Logan, Lebanon, Mac, Western, WLF).  The 6A schools will receive criticism for playing in a conference that is weighted down competitively by these smaller schools

The DAC, NLC, SIAC, MIC, HCC . MSC, etc do not have this problem.  

25 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Calling this newly proposed NCC a 'small school' conference is a fairly relative label, is it not?  If for some strange reason Lafayette Jefferson moves to the Hoosier Heartland conference then yes, IMHO the 'small school' label would apply.

 

Why?  Is this the old 'city speed' argument again?

 

"Relative?".   I don't think that is the term you were looking to use

 

[Muda69]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

"Relative?".   I don't think that is the term you were looking to use

 

Yes, it was.  What do you consider to be a "small" school?  A "large" school?  Does the IHSAA have a hard and fast boundary regarding such labels?

 

[Guest DT]

3 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes, it was.  What do you consider to be a "small" school?  A "large" school?  Does the IHSAA have a hard and fast boundary regarding such labels?

 

If I'm a 6a school, anything less that 5a is considered "small"

 JMO

[Muda69]

1 minute ago, DT said:

If I'm a 6a school, anything less that 5a is considered "small"

 JMO

IMO any grade 9-12 school with over 1000 students is considers "large".