Proposal to Make Enrollment based Adjustments to Class 5A and 6A

[psaboy]

All this really does is give the smaller 6A schools a chance to go and win a state title at 5A, does noting to strengthen 6A, which I doubt is possible. 

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, Grover said:

CG does pretty good in other sports too.  We haven't won as many titles as Carmel but I don't want to re-write the rules to make it so we can.  

CG does very well in all sports, but when you start whining about your enrollment disparity with Carmel, no one is listening.  Carmel doesnt have 200 guys on its varsity roster.  They have about the same as the other Big 4 schools.  Indiana has a real opportunity to showcase its 6A elite class of football programs.  I can guarantee you there are not 32 of them.  Motre and more Indy area 5A schools will grow and continue to push northern schools out of 6A.  Whiteland is just around the corner.  

2 minutes ago, psaboy said:

All this really does is give the smaller 6A schools a chance to go and win a state title at 5A, does noting to strengthen 6A, which I doubt is possible. 

6A does not need any strengthening.  5A does.  

[Guest DT]

6a becomes more "elite" as a 24 school class than a 32 school class.  

[psaboy]

1 minute ago, DT said:

6a becomes more "elite" as a 24 school class than a 32 school class.  

Same handful of Indy teams will win it 9 out of 10 years, or maybe 19 out of 20. 

[BTF]

7 minutes ago, Grover said:

CG does pretty good in other sports too.  We haven't won as many titles as Carmel but I don't want to re-write the rules to make it so we can.  

You'll exhaust yourself if you do. At CG's enrollment level, there isn't even an iota of a chance that they'll be in anything but the largest school division. And CG will never catch up with Carmel as the Greyhounds success goes back five decades. Center Grove's success is more recent with the hiring of Eric Moore. 

[Grover]

6 minutes ago, DT said:

CG does very well in all sports, but when you start whining about your enrollment disparity with Carmel, no one is listening.  Carmel doesnt have 200 guys on its varsity roster.  They have about the same as the other Big 4 schools.  Indiana has a real opportunity to showcase its 6A elite class of football programs.  I can guarantee you there are not 32 of them.  Motre and more Indy area 5A schools will grow and continue to push northern schools out of 6A.  Whiteland is just around the corner.  

6A does not need any strengthening.  5A does.  

Where was I whining about our enrollment disparity?  I pointed out that we have the disparity and overcame it.  

[Grover]

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

You'll exhaust yourself if you do. At CG's enrollment level, there isn't even an iota of a chance that they'll be in anything but the largest school division. And CG will never catch up with Carmel as the Greyhounds success goes back five decades. Center Grove's success is more recent with the hiring of Eric Moore. 

Thanks for the history lesson on CG.  I don't care even a little if we catch Carmel in state titles.  You are the second person to bring this up and it makes zero sense.  I am more proud of our accomplishments because of the disparity.  Moving the bigger schools out of the way and beating whoever is left would be a hollow victory.

[Guest DT]

7 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Same handful of Indy teams will win it 9 out of 10 years, or maybe 19 out of 20. 

As temptation has pointed out ad nauseum, demographic , socio economic and population shifts are in favor of the HCC.  Several of those schools are capable of winning a state title today, moreso than they were 5 years ago.  I also like what I see out of the north.  Elkhart is a player,  Homestead and Carroll will continue to improve.  They are the Avon and Brownsburg of The SAC.  Crown Point just hired a Hall of Fame coach with the express expectation to compete for a state championship.  Penn is suddenly the sleeper.  

Edited August 12, 2021 by DT

[Guest DT]

3 minutes ago, Grover said:

Thanks for the history lesson on CG.  I don't care even a little if we catch Carmel in state titles.  You are the second person to bring this up and it makes zero sense.  I am more proud of our accomplishments because of the disparity.  Moving the bigger schools out of the way and beating whoever is left would be a hollow victory.

All of the schools that move out of 6A and into 5A are SMALLER than CG.  By quite a bit

[Grover]

1 minute ago, DT said:

All of the schools that move out of 6A and into 5A are SMALLER than CG.  By quite a bit

You are missing my context again.

[BTF]

9 minutes ago, Grover said:

Thanks for the history lesson on CG.  I don't care even a little if we catch Carmel in state titles.  You are the second person to bring this up and it makes zero sense.  I am more proud of our accomplishments because of the disparity.  Moving the bigger schools out of the way and beating whoever is left would be a hollow victory.

New Pal and Snider could say the same thing. There's nothing wrong with fighting for what is right on behalf of the masses. 

[psaboy]

11 minutes ago, DT said:

As temptation has pointed out ad nauseum, demographic , socio economic and population shifts are in favor of the HCC.  Several of those schools are capable of winning a state title today, moreso than they were 5 years ago.  I also like what I see out of the north.  Elkhart is a player,  Homestead and Carroll will continue to improve.  They are the Avon and Brownsburg of The SAC.  Crown Point just hired a Hall of Fame coach with the express expectation to compete for a state championship.  Penn is suddenly the sleeper.  

Yeah, maybe I should have said Indy area teams. Sooner or later 6A will be mostly Indy area teams, other than 2 in Fort Wayne + Warsaw, 2 in SB/Elk area and maybe 1 or2 from The Region, based on enrollment, success factor will add 1 possibly every 1 or 2 cycles. 

[DE]

54 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

There are Zero enrollment based classes in Indiana high school wrestling Danny. I'm fine with going back to that in football and basketball. 

Didn’t answer my question. Thanks. Not surprised. 

[Grover]

Of course not.  We just have a different opinion on what is right.  Not too long ago 64 teams in 5A was right.  Now 32 teams in 6A is right.  You & DT think 24 teams in 6A would be right.  Then what?  Hey, at this rate #17 CG might get bumped back into 5A in a few years.

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

New Pal and Snider could say the same thing. There's nothing wrong with fighting for what is right on behalf of the masses. 

 

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, Grover said:

Of course not.  We just have a different opinion on what is right.  Not too long ago 64 teams in 5A was right.  Now 32 teams in 6A is right.  You & DT think 24 teams in 6A would be right.  Then what?  Hey, at this rate #17 CG might get bumped back into 5A in a few years.

 

Now you're just getting carried away. Sixty four teams was never right. Thirty two was better, but not quite right. What's wrong with trying to get closer to "right?" You can actually intelligently debate that 24 teams is no more "right" than 32? We're taking eight teams out of a class they don't belong in and putting them in their own weight class.............how is that not right!?!?

[Grover]

I disagree with your take that they don't belong.

[BTF]

8 minutes ago, Grover said:

I disagree with your take that they don't belong.

The three largest schools winning 15 of the last 20 big school championships isn't just coincidence. 

 

[Grover]

39 minutes ago, BTF said:

The three largest schools winning 15 of the last 20 big school championships isn't just coincidence. 

 

So make 6A a class of four schools because you won't be happy until then. 

[BTF]

21 hours ago, DT said:

 

Scheduling and bye weeks will all work themselves out. We will leave that to the Athletic Directors and the IHSAA staff.

 

It could be as simple as have a board of five members making the decisions on this. One from each area of the state........central, northeast, northwest, southwest, and southeast. No different than the committee that decides seeding in the NCAA Basketball Tournament or the Football Playoff Selection Committee. AP Rankings, Sagarin, Gridiron Rankings, strength of schedule, etc., could all be utilized in deciding who gets a bye and who doesn't. 

[BDGiant93]

Not sure what the difference is between 24 and 32 teams in 6A. It's not going to change much. MIC vs. HCC. 

[Guest DT]

4 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Not sure what the difference is between 24 and 32 teams in 6A. It's not going to change much. MIC vs. HCC. 

The biggest difference is the opportunities created to compete for a state championship for the bottom 6 to 8 schools in 6A.  

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Not sure what the difference is between 24 and 32 teams in 6A. It's not going to change much. MIC vs. HCC. 

Eight more teams who have a shot at the title. Warsaw being one of those teams.  Would the Tigers be a threat to MIC supremacy with their new coach and an enrollment of 4000? The answer to that is yes, give them the same opportunity to play for a title that the mega schools have. 

[Guest DT]

8 minutes ago, BTF said:

Eight more teams who have a shot at the title. Warsaw being one of those teams.  Would the Tigers be a threat to MIC supremacy with their new coach and an enrollment of 4000? The answer to that is yes, give them the same opportunity to play for a title that the mega schools have. 

In my view, the inclusion of Col N, Merrillville, Chesterton, Valpo, Jeffersonville, Warsaw, Southport, Laf Jeff make 5A an extremely interesting class.  Right now these schools are an afterthought in the postseason.

Thats not right

[BDGiant93]

9 minutes ago, DT said:

In my view, the inclusion of Col N, Merrillville, Chesterton, Valpo, Jeffersonville, Warsaw, Southport, Laf Jeff make 5A an extremely interesting class.  Right now these schools are an afterthought in the postseason.

Thats not right

Not to sound cruel but there are lots of schools who are an afterthought in tournament time. Some years, that's been everybody but one school in a class. 

But then when someone dominates, where do we draw the line? How many trophies do we hand out? 

[Gipper]

20 minutes ago, BTF said:

Eight more teams who have a shot at the title. Warsaw being one of those teams.  Would the Tigers be a threat to MIC supremacy with their new coach and an enrollment of 4000? The answer to that is yes, give them the same opportunity to play for a title that the mega schools have. 

Exactly--8 more teams with a shot.   6A shouldn't be just a HCC-MIC Challenge/Shootout/Cotillion.