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Purdue Wallops IU on Draft Day - Is this a referendum on Brohm-Allen performance comparison?


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1 minute ago, HHF said:

I disagree.  While the defense is improved, its not light years ahead of where they were under Wilson.  And offensively, we are nowhere near the talent level we had under KW.  Of course, he was a winner coming from Oklahoma and understood what offensive talent looks like.  Your "much improved" defense got obliterated several times last year, including against the supposed worst team in the conference from Piscataway.  Im my view, IU can never have an elite defense, because they cant recruit and coach to that level.  That can and have had an "elite" offense.  We gave that up when Wilson got whacked.  All he has done is take Ohio States offense up a few more notches.  

You're looking way too much into the Rutgers game last year. Charlie Spegal lead the team in rushing attempts that game, that should tell you everything you need to know about where IU was at during that point of the season. And the defense is LIGHT YEARS ahead today than it was under any point of the Wilson era, sans the lone year Allen was the DC. It's not comparable. IU's offense was flat abysmal last year and put the defense behind the 8ball every game. IU's offense had 4 pick sixes last year alone and went 3 and out more times than any team in a P5 conference. 

And I think you're crazy if you think Kevin Wilson is what is making Ohio State's offense go. That is all Ryan Day. 

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11 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

WKU is in Conference USA, not the MAC.

 

Same level, in my view  Same type of players

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15 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

You're looking way too much into the Rutgers game last year. Charlie Spegal lead the team in rushing attempts that game, that should tell you everything you need to know about where IU was at during that point of the season. And the defense is LIGHT YEARS ahead today than it was under any point of the Wilson era, sans the lone year Allen was the DC. It's not comparable. IU's offense was flat abysmal last year and put the defense behind the 8ball every game. IU's offense had 4 pick sixes last year alone and went 3 and out more times than any team in a P5 conference. 

And I think you're crazy if you think Kevin Wilson is what is making Ohio State's offense go. That is all Ryan Day. 

Kevin Wilson has OC on his resume from OU and OSU.  He is highly regarded as a creative offensive mind.

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42 minutes ago, HHF said:

Kevin Wilson has OC on his resume from OU and OSU.  He is highly regarded as a creative offensive mind.

Not disputing he's a great offensive mind. But that is Ryan Day's offense and Ryan Day's offense alone. 

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11 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Not disputing he's a great offensive mind. But that is Ryan Day's offense and Ryan Day's offense alone. 

I guess KW just sits around with his thumb up his *** all day.

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6 minutes ago, HHF said:

I guess KW just sits around with his thumb up his *** all day.

I don't think he sits around with his thumb up his *** all day, never implied that and not sure where you're getting that from? But if you think Kevin Wilson is the innovator of that Ohio State offense, well then you haven't been paying attention. 

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3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I don't think he sits around with his thumb up his *** all day, never implied that and not sure where you're getting that from? But if you think Kevin Wilson is the innovator of that Ohio State offense, well then you haven't been paying attention. 

Well youve given him credit for nothing.  Thats what your words imply.  Id say he has had a huge impact on the development of all of their QBs and wide receivers, which are all over the NFL. or at least were until recently.

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10 minutes ago, HHF said:

Well youve given him credit for nothing.  Thats what your words imply.  Id say he has had a huge impact on the development of all of their QBs and wide receivers, which are all over the NFL. or at least were until recently.

Uh no. 

Brian Hartline is revered as the best wide receivers coach in college football and is easily the best recruiter Ohio State has. He's also the passing game coordinator.

Ryan Day is the QB guy and has been his area of expertise since he's been in coaching. 

Kevin Wilson is an OL/TE guy. He's integral in scouting and game day preparation, nobody is refuting that. But the offense Ohio State runs is the same offense Ryan Day implemented when he was hired at Ohio State as the offensive coordinator. The offense is tailored by Day. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Uh no. 

Brian Hartline is revered as the best wide receivers coach in college football and is easily the best recruiter Ohio State has. He's also the passing game coordinator.

Ryan Day is the QB guy and has been his area of expertise since he's been in coaching. 

Kevin Wilson is an OL/TE guy. He's integral in scouting and game day preparation, nobody is refuting that. But the offense Ohio State runs is the same offense Ryan Day implemented when he was hired at Ohio State as the offensive coordinator. The offense is tailored by Day. 

Noted  Apparently Wilson gets paid very handsomely for doing very little

Edited by HHF
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2 minutes ago, HHF said:

Noted  Apparently Wilson gets paid very handsomely for doing very little

He's got a good gig at Ohio State, but he's expendable. Brian Hartline is the most immeasurable piece to their coaching staff. Not sure the last recruiting battle he lost.

@temptationcan vouch for the evil empire. 

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On 5/2/2022 at 12:58 PM, HHF said:

Im tired of all the "LEO" BS.

We got our butts kicked all over the field last year and 2020 was a pandemic fluke.  The reason we have so many injuries is do to the fact that the roster is filled with sub par athletes who cant take the pounding of BT football.

Allen's pixie dust has run dry.  Indiana football's only hope is that the BT scraps its divisions and goes to an 8 game conference schedule, which is being discussed.  The conference wants to create a BT-PAC12-ACC Alliance to offset the SECs addition of OU and TEX.  The quicker IU can get away from OSU/PSU/UM the better.  Then we will pick up games like NC State, Oregon State, Arizona, Boston College, etc.  

 

Didn't IU have the 4th ranked recruiting class in the Big 10 earlier this year?  20th nationally?

https://www.idsnews.com/article/2021/12/indiana-football-2022-recruiting-class-national-signing-day#:~:text=Indiana's class of 2022 is,20 nationally.&text=Indiana football signed its 2022 recruiting class Wednesday on National Signing Day.

That may have changed given the exodus of the running back from Cincy to ND, but pretty darn good for IU.  As FB16 indicated, some excellent players via the transfer portal.

I do agree...its unfortunate IU plays in the Big 10 East.....I hope they shake up this conference alignment someday.  That is 2nd only to the SEC West in terms of tough competition.  I also agree with your comments about Schiano and Rutgers....greatly improved.

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Posted (edited)

I'm a Purdue guy through and through who has paid very close attention to recruiting in the past five years. With that being said, Purdue benefitted from two of the most important factors in recruiting - location and timing. Yes, it took some effort from Brohm and his staff to land Bell and Karlaftis, but they have been outliers. Purdue hasn't landed a player ranked as highly as either player since both committed. Yes, they've signed Milton Wright who is from Louisville and is an outlier, Maliq Carr, who has left the program for Michigan St, and Brady Allen, who has yet to play and is in Purdue's backyard, and a dozen or so of other low 4 star recruits. The only other former 4* players that have played at a high level, in the Brohm era, have been Marvin Grant, Gus Hartwig, and Rondale Moore, with Hartwig and Grant being debatable. Purdue only landed Moore because he went to the same high school as Brohm and is from the Louisville pipeline, which makes him another outlier. Hartwig also seems to be yet another outlier, as he is the highest OL recruit that Purdue has signed, by far, in the Brohm era, and was essentially in Purdue's backyard.

I've read a few mock drafts for next season and I've only seen one player mocked to be drafted, and it's Jalen Graham in the 5th round. Obviously a lot can happen between now and then. I think that AOC and Wright have good chances to be drafted, as long as Wright can stay eligible. Purdue was very lucky to have signed two top 100 players in their own backyard. Outside of those two, Purdue had one other player drafted this year, a former walk-on in the seventh round, and had several UDFA free agents signed. Take away Bell and Karlaftis and Purdue goes back to their norm, which is normally one player being drafted on day 3 and a slew of UDFA being signed after the draft. 

Recruiting has improved quite a bit in the Brohm era, as he has been adept at recruiting Indiana, but the drafting really hasn't outside of three outliers. It's not like 5-10 players are being drafted every year now. Brohm hasn't shown that he is capable of signing highly coveted players outside of the Indiana and Louisville pipelines, which tells me that his classes would have been mediocre without those pipelines producing highly coveted players.

Edited by AG
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58 minutes ago, AG said:

I'm a Purdue guy through and through who has paid very close attention to recruiting in the past five years. With that being said, Purdue benefitted from two of the most important factors in recruiting - location and timing. Yes, it took some effort from Brohm and his staff to land Bell and Karlaftis, but they have been outliers. Purdue hasn't landed a player ranked as highly as either player since both committed. Yes, they've signed Milton Wright who is from Louisville and is an outlier, Maliq Carr, who has left the program for Michigan St, and Brady Allen, who has yet to play and is in Purdue's backyard, and a dozen or so of other low 4 star recruits. The only other former 4* players that have played at a high level, in the Brohm era, have been Marvin Grant, Gus Hartwig, and Rondale Moore, with Hartwig and Grant being debatable. Purdue only landed Moore because he went to the same high school as Brohm and is from the Louisville pipeline, which makes him another outlier. Hartwig also seems to be yet another outlier, as he is the highest OL recruit that Purdue has signed, by far, in the Brohm era, and was essentially in Purdue's backyard.

I've read a few mock drafts for next season and I've only seen one player mocked to be drafted, and it's Jalen Graham in the 5th round. Obviously a lot can happen between now and then. I think that AOC and Wright have good chances to be drafted, as long as Wright can stay eligible. Purdue was very lucky to have signed two top 100 players in their own backyard. Outside of those two, Purdue had one other player drafted this year, a former walk-on in the seventh round, and had several UDFA free agents signed. Take away Bell and Karlaftis and Purdue goes back to their norm, which is normally one player being drafted on day 3 and a slew of UDFA being signed after the draft. 

Recruiting has improved quite a bit in the Brohm era, as he has been adept at recruiting Indiana, but the drafting really hasn't outside of three outliers. It's not like 5-10 players are being drafted every year now. Brohm hasn't shown that he is capable of signing highly coveted players outside of the Indiana and Louisville pipelines, which tells me that his classes would have been mediocre without those pipelines producing highly coveted players.

But Brohm got them and Allen didnt.

Brohm was 9-4 with them last year.

Allen was 2-10 without them.

Brohm wins.  Hands down.  

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

But Brohm got them and Allen didnt.

Brohm was 9-4 with them last year.

Allen was 2-10 without them.

Brohm wins.  Hands down.  

We will see if last year was an outlier for Purdue or if last year's success will continue.

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

But Brohm got them and Allen didnt.

Brohm was 9-4 with them last year.

Allen was 2-10 without them.

Brohm wins.  Hands down.  

Much of the recruiting for the players making the largest impact was done a few years ago.

Weren't you the same guy being pretty negative on Brohm the year prior?  Before that?

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2 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

Much of the recruiting for the players making the largest impact was done a few years ago.

Weren't you the same guy being pretty negative on Brohm the year prior?  Before that?

Its been 5 years.  Brohm is winning the battle at this point.  Do you disagree?

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1 hour ago, HHF said:

Its been 5 years.  Brohm is winning the battle at this point.  Do you disagree?

perhaps...but its closer than you let on.  Except for last year, all of the head to head games since 2017 (their first years playing against each other) have been within a TD.  

Allen won the recruiting war last year and I know how much you value recruiting rankings

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/?Conference=Big-Ten

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2022/big10/football

I think sometimes you look at a short stack of data to make major conclusions.  Let's see how this season goes.  Neither have set the world on fire.

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6 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

perhaps...but its closer than you let on.  Except for last year, all of the head to head games since 2017 (their first years playing against each other) have been within a TD.  

Allen won the recruiting war last year and I know how much you value recruiting rankings

https://247sports.com/Season/2022-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/?Conference=Big-Ten

https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2022/big10/football

I think sometimes you look at a short stack of data to make major conclusions.  Let's see how this season goes.  Neither have set the world on fire.

Agree that its been a bit back and forth.  But 2021 was a huge swing year in Brohms favor.  Im skeptical of Indiana' s recruiting class ranking.  Our 4Stars have been busts for the most part.  These are the most valuable players in all of college football, at any level.  At IU, they are supposed to be the teams best players.  At elite schools, 4 stars provide depth and push the 5 Stars for playing time.  Im one of those who have thrown out the 2020 results and dont consider them to be a true indicator of ones body of work.  

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On 5/2/2022 at 10:08 AM, WolvesOnTheProwl said:

I mean Notre Dame only had 2 players drafted and like 4 or 5 UFA. Kelly and Freeman on hot seats too???

And Purdue benefitted greatly from a 5* DL from their own backyard and a generational type receiver in Bell. 

George's brother, Yanni, is a red-shirt freshman at Purdue and is as good as GK5.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, HHF said:

Agree that its been a bit back and forth.  But 2021 was a huge swing year in Brohms favor.  Im skeptical of Indiana' s recruiting class ranking.  Our 4Stars have been busts for the most part.  These are the most valuable players in all of college football, at any level.  At IU, they are supposed to be the teams best players.  At elite schools, 4 stars provide depth and push the 5 Stars for playing time.  Im one of those who have thrown out the 2020 results and dont consider them to be a true indicator of ones body of work.  

Nothing personal intended....but people who do this for a living obviously feel differently than you about their skill and upside. (2022 recruiting class)  The past doesn't dictate this class.  At the end of the day, none of us know.  

Its ridiculous to throw out 2020...following that logic, the national title game doesn't count.  You only throw it out because it supports your narrative.  As FB16 pointed out, 2019 was a solid year for IU as well.  

I guess time will tell if 2019 and 2020 were outliers or if 2021 was the actual outlier.  No one can be competitive without an experienced QB and that was the issue with IU.  Now they have an excellent transfer.  I was at the Cincy game and watched IU control most of the first half until McFadden was ejected...game completely turned and IU still could have pulled it out in the end.  They need work on the O line...no doubt and other key positions.

But I do not put Purdue heads and tails above IU....one can debate and defend slightly better....but  its not like there is a huge gap.  Drop Purdue in the East division and see how they fare.....by the time the Bucket game is played, IU has been through the gauntlet.

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5 minutes ago, Gipper said:

George's brother, Yanni, is a red-shirt freshman at Purdue and is as good as GK5.

Yanni must have improved since High School, because then it wasn't even close.

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7 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Nothing personal intended....but people who do this for a living obviously feel differently than you about their skill and upside. (2022 recruiting class)  The past doesn't dictate this class.  At the end of the day, none of us know.  

Its ridiculous to throw out 2020...following that logic, the national title game doesn't count.  You only throw it out because it supports your narrative.  As FB16 pointed out, 2019 was a solid year for IU as well.  

I guess time will tell if 2019 and 2020 were outliers or if 2021 was the actual outlier.  No one can be competitive without an experienced QB and that was the issue with IU.  Now they have an excellent transfer.  I was at the Cincy game and watched IU control most of the first half until McFadden was ejected...game completely turned and IU still could have pulled it out in the end.  They need work on the O line...no doubt and other key positions.

But I do not put Purdue heads and tails above IU....one can debate and defend slightly better....but  its not like there is a huge gap.  Drop Purdue in the East division and see how they fare.....by the time the Bucket game is played, IU has been through the gauntlet.

IUs 2021 fall was hard and steep.  Heading in to 2022 and year 6 in charge of the program , and 7th on the staff, one would think that Allen would be coming in to the season with a full head of steam, a boatload of experienced players, a solid staff, and wind in their sails.  But they are not.  The program is viewed still with great skepticism, and all of the momentum , earned or not, is gone.  Now that we have a Missouri Mule at QB, Im adopting the slogan "Show Me" for the 2022 season.  Josey Wales would agree. 

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Let’s just call it what it is…

Purdue’s ceiling is a bit higher than IU’s simply by playing in the Big Ten West.

The Boilers should be disappointed with anything less than 7 wins annually if they follow The Temp’s fool proof non conference scheduling strategy.

The Hoosiers should be thrilled anytime they get to 6 and as long as they also subscribe to the Temp’s plan, that is attainable.

Both programs might have a lucky year here or there and will also have a year where they catch no breaks but it’s pretty straightforward to me.

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