Jump to content

Conference Realignment Rumblings - The Topic That Never Goes Away


Recommended Posts

USC and UCLA to the Big Ten?  Say it ain't so Joe.  

And in the wink of an eye, POOF, the venerable Pacific 12 Conference is dispatched to the annals of history.  The Big 12 is about to swoop in and pick off the remaining good parts, leaving outliers like Washington State and Oregon State to fend for themselves. 

Closer to home, could one of our Indiana Blue Blood Conferences, our most highly decorated ever, soon be joining The PAC 12 in the conference dustbin?

The North Central Conference, The NCC, Indiana's most famous high school athletic conference, could soon dissolve and be wiped completely off the map.

What's happening?

Hoosier Heritage Conference schools Delta, Yorktown and possibly New castle are unhappy with the Indy centric direction of their league, including the long travel and also the lopsided beatings they have been taking on the football field for years.  There is no enrollment growth at these schools.  Stagnation rules, while the Indy area schools continue to explode.  

The Muncie based group wants to play against schools of similar size and competitive profile, and spend less time and money on busses.  

Muncie Central, a blue blood itself with lots of political cache in its war chest, is primed to come along for the ride and will attract several others to fill out the new conference slate.  

Those expected to be in the mix?

Richmond

Jay County

Oak Hill

Centerville

Others who might get a call?

Marion and Ole Miss.

Adding to The NCCs concerns is news that Indianapolis Tech will be leaving, citing excessive travel issues for its student athletes.  

If/When this all comes to fruition, you have an NCC with a new powerbase in Lafayette and a very uncertain future.  Look for Jeff, Harrison and McCutcheon, along with Kokomo and Logansport, to start planning a new conference, putting out feelers to potential future members including West Lafayette, Lebanon, Western and possibly Frankfort.  

With regards to Tech, look for the Titans to wind up in The MIC.  

And so the carousel turns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I’ve stated multiple times, I feel that conference Indiana is dead. However, I do believe getting Tech into conference Indiana could revitalize the conference with more stability as far as football goes. This would definitely be more competitive for tech in most sports as well. The MIC sounds great, but football wise it would be a disaster. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Frozen Tundra said:

With Conference Indiana on shaky ground, would Southport to the MIC make sense? Just curious if that would ever be a possibility.

It makes perfect sense, for Southport and tech to replace Carmel and Center Grove in The MIC.

Then the conference should do a full rinse and downsize its sports menu and focus on what the kids want to participate in .  

Below is the current sports offering at Ben Davis.  I put an X next to those that would be candidates for contraction throughout the conference.  If any other MIC school wants to continue on in a sport, they could as an independent.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, DT said:

USC and UCLA to the Big Ten?  Say it ain't so Joe.  

And in the wink of an eye, POOF, the venerable Pacific 12 Conference is dispatched to the annals of history.  The Big 12 is about to swoop in and pick off the remaining good parts, leaving outliers like Washington State and Oregon State to fend for themselves. 

Closer to home, could one of our Indiana Blue Blood Conferences, our most highly decorated ever, soon be joining The PAC 12 in the conference dustbin?

The North Central Conference, The NCC, Indiana's most famous high school athletic conference, could soon dissolve and be wiped completely off the map.

What's happening?

Hoosier Heritage Conference schools Delta, Yorktown and possibly New castle are unhappy with the Indy centric direction of their league, including the long travel and also the lopsided beatings they have been taking on the football field for years.  There is no enrollment growth at these schools.  Stagnation rules, while the Indy area schools continue to explode.  

The Muncie based group wants to play against schools of similar size and competitive profile, and spend less time and money on busses.  

Muncie Central, a blue blood itself with lots of political cache in its war chest, is primed to come along for the ride and will attract several others to fill out the new conference slate.  

Those expected to be in the mix?

Richmond

Jay County

Oak Hill

Centerville

Others who might get a call?

Marion and Ole Miss.

Adding to The NCCs concerns is news that Indianapolis Tech will be leaving, citing excessive travel issues for its student athletes.  

If/When this all comes to fruition, you have an NCC with a new powerbase in Lafayette and a very uncertain future.  Look for Jeff, Harrison and McCutcheon, along with Kokomo and Logansport, to start planning a new conference, putting out feelers to potential future members including West Lafayette, Lebanon, Western and possibly Frankfort.  

With regards to Tech, look for the Titans to wind up in The MIC.  

And so the carousel turns.

It would make sense if Jay County wanted to jump ship from the ACAC, especially if others you mentioned (Marion, Ole Miss, Muncie Central, Delta and Yorktown) wanted out of their respective conferences. If that were to happen, I’d honestly like to see Southern Wells go independent due to competitive issues in several sports. I’d then like to see Norwell and Bellmont join the ACAC. 
I don’t think this will ever happen. Bellmont may not like this proposal considering they don’t want to play AC anymore on football (dropped them from schedule starting in 2022) but Norwell and Bellmont fit fairly well in the ACAC considering all sports and geography. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, FlyingHigh said:

It would make sense if Jay County wanted to jump ship from the ACAC, especially if others you mentioned (Marion, Ole Miss, Muncie Central, Delta and Yorktown) wanted out of their respective conferences. If that were to happen, I’d honestly like to see Southern Wells go independent due to competitive issues in several sports. I’d then like to see Norwell and Bellmont join the ACAC. 
I don’t think this will ever happen. Bellmont may not like this proposal considering they don’t want to play AC anymore on football (dropped them from schedule starting in 2022) but Norwell and Bellmont fit fairly well in the ACAC considering all sports and geography. 

The NE8 is an "elite level" conference.  Why would Norwell and Bellmont want out, unless you believe they dont have the desire to compete at an NE8 level?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, FlyingHigh said:

It would make sense if Jay County wanted to jump ship from the ACAC, especially if others you mentioned (Marion, Ole Miss, Muncie Central, Delta and Yorktown) wanted out of their respective conferences. If that were to happen, I’d honestly like to see Southern Wells go independent due to competitive issues in several sports. I’d then like to see Norwell and Bellmont join the ACAC. 
I don’t think this will ever happen. Bellmont may not like this proposal considering they don’t want to play AC anymore on football (dropped them from schedule starting in 2022) but Norwell and Bellmont fit fairly well in the ACAC considering all sports and geography. 

What’s the deal with Jay County? How is a 4A team like them so bad in a small school conference?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DT said:

The NE8 is an "elite level" conference.  Why would Norwell and Bellmont want out, unless you believe they dont have the desire to compete at an NE8 level?

Bellmont doesn’t even want to compete at AC’s level (considering they dropped them from their schedule) so no, I don’t think they want to play Leo and East Noble every year. I don’t think Norwell would want to change conferences, which is why I said I didn’t think it would ever happen. In terms of football, Norwell would take a step back from facing 2 big time big school programs every year if they moved out of the NE8. 
 

If we’re just talking football, the NE8 isn’t an elite conference. They have 2 perennially strong teams (the “strongest” of which hasn’t won a sectional championship in 11 years) and will push 3 with Norwell. They are, by definition, top heavy with an enormous drop off. Don’t take this analysis as me saying the ACAC is elite by any means. In fact, the conference is incredibly weak in football. Possibly one of the worst in the state. My desire to bring Norwell into the ACAC is purely selfish. I’d love to have a consistently competitive conference game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DT said:

It makes perfect sense, for Southport and tech to replace Carmel and Center Grove in The MIC.

So if Conference Indiana were to disband, what would come of the Terre Haute schools? The other four teams in the CI have conferences nearby that they can join. I’m not sure what the Terre Haute schools would do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Frozen Tundra said:

So if Conference Indiana were to disband, what would come of the Terre Haute schools? The other four teams in the CI have conferences nearby that they can join. I’m not sure what the Terre Haute schools would do.

Build a Terre Haute East JH/SHS and join the WIC?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, FlyingHigh said:

Bellmont doesn’t even want to compete at AC’s level (considering they dropped them from their schedule) so no, I don’t think they want to play Leo and East Noble every year. I don’t think Norwell would want to change conferences, which is why I said I didn’t think it would ever happen. In terms of football, Norwell would take a step back from facing 2 big time big school programs every year if they moved out of the NE8. 
 

If we’re just talking football, the NE8 isn’t an elite conference. They have 2 perennially strong teams (the “strongest” of which hasn’t won a sectional championship in 11 years) and will push 3 with Norwell. They are, by definition, top heavy with an enormous drop off. Don’t take this analysis as me saying the ACAC is elite by any means. In fact, the conference is incredibly weak in football. Possibly one of the worst in the state. My desire to bring Norwell into the ACAC is purely selfish. I’d love to have a consistently competitive conference game.

Bellmont has more team state titles than any other school in the conference.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

Build a Terre Haute East JH/SHS and join the WIC?

Center Grove and Carmel made monumental miscalculations by boldly assuming that they would both be voted in to the Hoosier Crossroads Conference.

Both were left at the alter with egg on their faces.

Is there any guarantee that The WIC would want the TH schools?  The current WIC is on a good trajectory and seems to be extremely happy with exactly who it is.  Adding the TH schools completely changes the competitive dynamic.

Would love to hear from some WIC and some TH folks on this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Frozen Tundra said:

So if Conference Indiana were to disband, what would come of the Terre Haute schools? The other four teams in the CI have conferences nearby that they can join. I’m not sure what the Terre Haute schools would do.

Also- what would Columbus North do?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

Also- what would Columbus North do?

I think eventually Columbus North goes to the Mid State Conference.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

Also- what would Columbus North do?

 

51 minutes ago, DT said:

I think eventually Columbus North goes to the Mid State Conference.  

I agree with @DT. I think the Mid-State Conference would be their destination. If that didn’t work out, there’s always the HHC as a back-up plan.

Edited by Frozen Tundra
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, DT said:

Bellmont has more team state titles than any other school in the conference.

 

 

I know that you’re doing a lot to drive conversation in the off-season on GID and I appreciate that overall, but using Bellmont as an argument for the NE8’s status as an “elite” conference is laughable. It wreaks of desperation. 
 

There are much more legitimate topics to be discussed.

Edited by FlyingHigh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, FlyingHigh said:

I know that you’re doing a lot to drive conversation in the off-season on GID and I appreciate that overall, but using Bellmont as an argument for the NE8’s status as an “elite” conference is laughable. It wreaks of desperation. 
 

There are much more legitimate topics to be discussed.

Im just waiting for someone to take the lead in this thread.  Just keeping the cinders burning while I wait .  

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, DT said:

Adding to The NCCs concerns is news that Indianapolis Tech will be leaving, citing excessive travel issues for its student athletes.  

If/When this all comes to fruition, you have an NCC with a new powerbase in Lafayette and a very uncertain future.  Look for Jeff, Harrison and McCutcheon, along with Kokomo and Logansport, to start planning a new conference, putting out feelers to potential future members including West Lafayette, Lebanon, Western and possibly Frankfort.  

 

Frankfort was a charter member of the NCC, and left when it's enrollment growth could no longer keep pace with it's larger NCC brethren.  Don't think they would have any interest in returning. The Hoosier Conference is the best fit for the Hot Dogs should the Sagamore Conference fall apart.  That or the Hoosier Heartland Conference.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, DT said:

Center Grove and Carmel made monumental miscalculations by boldly assuming that they would both be voted in to the Hoosier Crossroads Conference.

Both were left at the alter with egg on their faces.

Is there any guarantee that The WIC would want the TH schools?  The current WIC is on a good trajectory and seems to be extremely happy with exactly who it is.  Adding the TH schools completely changes the competitive dynamic.

Would love to hear from some WIC and some TH folks on this one.

I'm not sure the WIC would want them. The school issue with renovation/consolidation still hasn't been resolved as far as I know. I know the WIC tried to recruit Linton to join but they declined. I also heard Northview had talked about leaving and joining the CI with THS and THN. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Frankfort was a charter member of the NCC, and left when it's enrollment growth could no longer keep pace with it's larger NCC brethren.  Don't think they would have any interest in returning. The Hoosier Conference is the best fit for the Hot Dogs should the Sagamore Conference fall apart.  That or the Hoosier Heartland Conference.

 

But do those conferences really want a 4A school, regardless of its competitive profile?  I get fired up every time I chat with James Byers at Frankfort, but I just dont know if he or anyone else is capable of lifting that program beyond mediocrity, which is better than awful.  

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DT said:

But do those conferences really want a 4A school, regardless of its competitive profile?  I get fired up every time I chat with James Byers at Frankfort, but I just dont know if he or anyone else is capable of lifting that program beyond mediocrity, which is better than awful.  

Unfortunately Frankfort is a "4A" school with a large 2A - small 3A athletic talent base.   It would fit we ll in the Hoosier,  And isn't Western a 4A school that is also currently a member of the Hoosier conference?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Unfortunately Frankfort is a "4A" school with a large 2A - small 3A athletic talent base.   It would fit we ll in the Hoosier,  And isn't Western a 4A school that is also currently a member of the Hoosier conference?

 

On paper, Western and Frankfort are equals, although we know that they are not.  I'm seeing a trend where bigger schools are opting "down" into lower level conferences relative to class makeup.  

Jay County is a 4A school playing in a conference loaded with 1A programs.

6A Perry Meridian joined the 5A/4A Mid State

5A Munster plays in the 4A/3A Northwest Crossroads

6A Warsaw plays in the 3A/4A/5A NLC

Not a big fan of these affiliations.  I can see your Hot Dogs going down the same path of least resistance.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, DT said:

On paper, Western and Frankfort are equals, although we know that they are not.  I'm seeing a trend where bigger schools are opting "down" into lower level conferences relative to class makeup.  

Jay County is a 4A school playing in a conference loaded with 1A programs.

6A Perry Meridian joined the 5A/4A Mid State

5A Munster plays in the 4A/3A Northwest Crossroads

6A Warsaw plays in the 3A/4A/5A NLC

Not a big fan of these affiliations.  I can see your Hot Dogs going down the same path of least resistance.  

Because the size of the school is not always indicative of the "power" of it's athletic programs.  This is the preconceived notion that the IHSAA's primarily enrollment based classification system has caused.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Because the size of the school is not always indicative of the "power" of it's athletic programs.  This is the preconceived notion that the IHSAA's primarily enrollment based classification system has caused.

 

We all know the differences and competitive profiles of these schools.  But we operate in an environment that is controlled by enrollment numbers.  Schools have always been drawn to others of like size within a specific travel radius.  I would hope that the Hoosier Heartland is smart enough to put off any potential aspirations of conference membership by Frankfort due to wide enrollment discrepancy. If the best that 4A Frankfort can ever do is compete in football at the 1A - 2A level, it should contract and refocus those athletic dollars elsewhere.   I think its more likely that Frankfort's competitive profile "rises" before it declines any further.  The current staff gives this school a real opportunity to see incremental year to year improvement.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...