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SIAC vs. PAC


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16 hours ago, HHPatriots said:

The SIAC crushes the PAC?  Really?

After a mediocre PAC team beats the team in sectional that runs the table in the SIAC that is an ignorant statement.

I find it curious that you think the third best team in the pac according to sagarin is mediocre.  What does that say about the rest of the pac?  A fifth place siac team (mediocre in the literally sense) just won a 5a regional title.  What does that say about the siac?

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2 minutes ago, Sidelined56 said:

I noticed this also. The PAC "BIG" division has 42 All-Conference Players and the PAC "Small" Division has 47 players on it. Seems a little excessive to me in all honesty. Is the Honorable Mention kids equivalent to the 2nd team?? 

 

On the topic of SIAC all conference team vs PAC "Big" all conference team.... SIAC wins in a Landslide, unless Nick Hart coaches the PAC team... then I think the PAC wins by a million!!!!!

 

I'm not sure if you can call the HM kids equivalent to a 2nd team.  In the PAC if a coach puts up a kid for vote and they don't receive enough votes to make the conference team they are given an honorable mention.  If you get an HM....it's not a patch on the jacket so to speak, or at least that is my understanding.

 

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17 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I'm not sure if you can call the HM kids equivalent to a 2nd team.  In the PAC if a coach puts up a kid for vote and they don't receive enough votes to make the conference team they are given an honorable mention.  If you get an HM....it's not a patch on the jacket so to speak, or at least that is my understanding.

 

So how does it work for players like Boyd and Connor ?? Can they claim All-Conference QBs?? does this not end up hurting the kids in the end??

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8 minutes ago, Sidelined56 said:

So how does it work for players like Boyd and Connor ?? Can they claim All-Conference QBs?? does this not end up hurting the kids in the end??

Listen, I am not here to defend how the PAC does all conference, it clearly needs some updating.  Like I said earlier in the thread, my personal opinion is that the overall honors should be "add-ons" to the position honors, unfortunately the PAC isn't concerned with what Titan32 thinks.

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1 hour ago, Sidelined56 said:

I noticed this also. The PAC "BIG" division has 42 All-Conference Players and the PAC "Small" Division has 47 players on it. Seems a little excessive to me in all honesty. Is the Honorable Mention kids equivalent to the 2nd team?? 

 

It would make sense to think of it that way.  22 1st team and 22 2nd team = 44. So 42/47 wouldn't be all that out of line.  I'm more suspicious of a team like Forest Park (0 Conference wins) getting 8 players named or Tell City (2 conference wins) getting 7.  

I heard a rumor that Southridge was moving to "Big" division next year with the addition of Tecumseh.  Has that been confirmed?  

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1 hour ago, Alduflux said:

I find it curious that you think the third best team in the pac according to sagarin is mediocre.  What does that say about the rest of the pac?  A fifth place siac team (mediocre in the literally sense) just won a 5a regional title.  What does that say about the siac?

They were middle of the road when you think PAC. And I am referring to big/small school combined. I am not thinking of or even counting Pike, Princeton, Washington, etc.  If we think HH, Southridge, GS, Boonville....the only team that Boonville beat was HH and that was one play at the end of the game.  That's all.  Not saying they were bad.  It is not a shot a Boonville, just to say that of the heavy hitters of the PAC, they only beat one of them and that was very, very close.

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17 hours ago, HHPatriots said:

The SIAC crushes the PAC?  Really?

After a mediocre PAC team beats the team in sectional that runs the table in the SIAC that is an ignorant statement.

You must not know how sports work, especially with teenagers. There's a reason the games are played and not just analyzed on paper. Anybody that saw Reitz play or knew anything about them this season would know how good they were though. Boonville was also a solid team (not mediocre) and took full advantage of an "off" game for Reitz, which seemed inevitable with how they were unbeaten despite all the penalties and the injury to their QB.

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14 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

2003-04 there was an East-West All-Star Game in May played at the Reitz Bowl. I played on the East with some teammates and friends. Hart led the West to a victory. I've been meaning to digitize the game film.

Coach Salters from Vincennes was the defensive MVP of that game and played on the West squad also. It was a good intense game.

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14 minutes ago, Football Fanatic said:

You must not know how sports work, especially with teenagers. There's a reason the games are played and not just analyzed on paper. Anybody that saw Reitz play or knew anything about them this season would know how good they were though. Boonville was also a solid team (not mediocre) and took full advantage of an "off" game for Reitz, which seemed inevitable with how they were unbeaten despite all the penalties and the injury to their QB.

Yeah, you are right, I have no idea how this works. 🙄

See the above comment, right before yours.  Boonville was a solid team, but....to repeat, "They were middle of the road when you think PAC. And I am referring to big/small school combined. I am not thinking of or even counting Pike, Princeton, Washington, etc.  If we think HH, Southridge, GS, Boonville....the only team that Boonville beat was HH and that was one play at the end of the game.  That's all.  Not saying they were bad.  It is not a shot a Boonville, just to say that of the heavy hitters of the PAC, they only beat one of them and that was very, very close."

Reitz was an excellent team especially as it was shown by their regular season schedule.  They were not, however, good enough to beat Boonville on that night.  

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I see that the All-Metro or All-City team was posted... does anyone have a line on the All-SIAC team? When will that be announced or have they even had the meeting yet ? maybe I missed this in reading above, could someone fill me in please! 

Also, any experts have any projections on the SIAC all conference team/s ??

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I think on paper the SIAC would be the favorite in a matchup with the PAC and would have a heck of a coaching staff, but again, there's a reason games are actually played. I wouldn't say with confidence one way or the other. And I'm speaking on large school PAC only because I know more about those schools than the small school, so apologies for that. But just for fun, here would be MY potential starters + top reserves for the SIAC All-Stars vs. PAC Large School All-Stars:

PAC (Big School Only)

Offense

  • QB - Clay Conner (Boonville) - would also use Tanner Boyd in situations
  • RB - Devan Roberts (Gibson Southern) - would also use Reece Wilder in situations
  • WR - Sean Delong (Gibson Southern)
  • WR - Marques Ballard (Boonville)
  • WR - Jackson Clowers (Mt. Vernon)
  • WR - Isaac O'Neal (Gibson Southern) - would also use Michael Herren and Cooper Aigner
  • OL - Jacob Bales (Gibson Southern)
  • OL - Jackson Adams (Gibson Southern)
  • OL - Hunter Kolley (Heritage Hills)
  • OL - Gavin Maxey (Boonville)
  • OL - Ruben Gutierrez (Washington) - would also use Drew Walden

Defense

  • DL - Ethan Parker (Boonville) - would also use Brady Schickel
  • DL - Brody Klem (Gibson Southern)
  • DL - Stihl Scott (Boonville)
  • DL - Ty Whitledge (Gibson Southern)
  • LB - Braydon Durham (Heritage Hills)
  • LB - Carter Wolfe (Boonville) 
  • LB - Reece Wilder (Boonville) - would also use Luke Foster
  • DB - Brenden Chew (Heritage Hills)
  • DB - Mason Scheller (Gibson Southern)
  • DB - Cooper Aigner (Boonville)
  • DB - Hayden Gilmore (Princeton) - would also use Nicot Burnett at safety and Clay Conner in situations as a safety or roll down as an outside backer

Coaching Staff: Nick Hart, Todd Wilkerson, Darin Ward, Lukas Messmer

Notes: Apologies, as it appears I've mostly formed the Gibson Southern-Boonville-Heritage Hills All-Star team, but is it really that out-of-line, or is it accurate?

SIAC

Offense

  • QB - Mason Wunderlich (Mater Dei) - would also use Xander Hunt or Roland Vera Jr. in situations
  • RB - Jonas Burnett (Reitz) - would also use Porter Rode and Angelo St. Louis in situations
  • WR - Leo Collins (Memorial) - would also use Weston Aigner here
  • WR - Xavier Thomas (Reitz)
  • WR - Hayden Summers (Reitz)
  • WR - Caleb Ellsperman (Memorial) - would also use Ethan Stolz here
  • OL - Harlen Summers (Reitz)
  • OL - Edward Hartig (Memorial)
  • OL - Jack Cassidy (Memorial)
  • OL - Timmy Dixon (North) - would also use Griffin Hile
  • OL - Quentin Boeke (Reitz) 

Defense

  • DL - Jayden Hazelwood (North)
  • DL - Kelton Farmer (Memorial)
  • DL - Levi Oxley (Reitz)
  • DL - Calab Utley (Reitz) - would also use Kaleb Harris and Cale Johnson
  • LB - John Purdy (Castle)
  • LB - Carac Johnson (Memorial)
  • LB - Ayden Wells (Reitz) - would also use Mitch Adler and Alex Broshears
  • DB - Asher Horn (Harrison) - would also use Elijah Ringo
  • DB - Bralen Bair (Jasper)
  • DB - J'Khari Phifer (Reitz) - would also use Dejaun Gillis or Jackson Draper
  • DB - Ayden Salpietra (Castle) - would also use Roland Vera Jr. here or roll down as an outside backer

Coaching Staff: Mike Goebel, John Hurley, Cory Brunson, Doug Hurt

Notes: Now that I look at it more closely on paper, I think the SIAC would definitely be favored. I do think it would be a very competitive game though.

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59 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

Yeah, you are right, I have no idea how this works. 🙄

Reitz was an excellent team especially as it was shown by their regular season schedule.  They were not, however, good enough to beat Boonville on that night.  

You say that sarcastically, ha ha and all that, yet you confidently used it as your point to make in the SIAC vs. PAC argument. All season long, all the talk was who was the best team in the area...Reitz or Gibson Southern. No argument, they were clearly the two best teams around. Yet, they both lost early to opponents who, on paper, did not seem to be near as good. If those two matchups were played 10 times each, Reitz and Gibson Southern maybe win 8 or 9 of them right? But again, that's why the games are played. And you are right, on that night, Reitz was not good enough to beat Boonville (who then lost to Memorial who previously lost to Reitz) and Gibson Southern was not good enough to beat Owen Valley (who then lost to Monrovia). That happens in sports. Sometimes in the pros, a lot of times in college, and definitely a lot of times with high school teenagers. Can't judge by one game that was played on one given night. However, would definitely like to see some SIAC schools play the PAC schedule and some PAC schools play the SIAC schedule and see what the results would be. It's either that or an All-Star game. I'd be okay with either one!

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54 minutes ago, Sidelined56 said:

I see that the All-Metro or All-City team was posted... does anyone have a line on the All-SIAC team? When will that be announced or have they even had the meeting yet ? maybe I missed this in reading above, could someone fill me in please! 

Also, any experts have any projections on the SIAC all conference team/s ??

I believe the All-SIAC is not released until after all teams finish their season. Speaking of, congrats to the SIAC for having two teams still alive (Castle and Mater Dei). Surprised they have Castle there instead of Reitz/Memorial/Jasper, but never know what can happen. 

I just posted who I would start in an All-Star game, so I guess those would be my predictions. Also, I imagine most of the All-City players will be All-SIAC.

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2 minutes ago, Football Fanatic said:

You say that sarcastically, ha ha and all that, yet you confidently used it as your point to make in the SIAC vs. PAC argument. All season long, all the talk was who was the best team in the area...Reitz or Gibson Southern. No argument, they were clearly the two best teams around. Yet, they both lost early to opponents who, on paper, did not seem to be near as good. If those two matchups were played 10 times each, Reitz and Gibson Southern maybe win 8 or 9 of them right? But again, that's why the games are played. And you are right, on that night, Reitz was not good enough to beat Boonville (who then lost to Memorial who previously lost to Reitz) and Gibson Southern was not good enough to beat Owen Valley (who then lost to Monrovia). That happens in sports. Sometimes in the pros, a lot of times in college, and definitely a lot of times with high school teenagers. Can't judge by one game that was played on one given night. However, would definitely like to see some SIAC schools play the PAC schedule and some PAC schools play the SIAC schedule and see what the results would be. It's either that or an All-Star game. I'd be okay with either one!

I really don't believe we are very far apart....I understand children in sports.  I have coached them.

I just get really tired of hearing about how much better the SIAC is than the PAC when there just isn't the facts that support it.

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4 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

I really don't believe we are very far apart....I understand children in sports.  I have coached them.

I just get really tired of hearing about how much better the SIAC is than the PAC when there just isn't the facts that support it.

I agree. There's no valid way to compare and I do think it is close. However, I think the SIAC is slightly better overall - mostly speaking on depth, coaching and size/speed of the players. The only thing you can really look at is film, stats and player measurables (size, speed, lifting numbers, times, etc.). But even then, the game still has to be played and technique/mechanics are a huge part of the game. It doesn't really get me heated like a lot of people, as I am somebody who supports and follows all Evansville area football so I just like seeing all players and teams succeed (well, most of them lol). But I do like a good debate and comparison, which are usually pointless, but do make for fun discussion and hypotheticals. 

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1 hour ago, Football Fanatic said:

I think on paper the SIAC would be the favorite in a matchup with the PAC and would have a heck of a coaching staff, but again, there's a reason games are actually played. I wouldn't say with confidence one way or the other. And I'm speaking on large school PAC only because I know more about those schools than the small school, so apologies for that. But just for fun, here would be MY potential starters + top reserves for the SIAC All-Stars vs. PAC Large School All-Stars:

PAC (Big School Only)

Offense

  • QB - Clay Conner (Boonville) - would also use Tanner Boyd in situations
  • RB - Devan Roberts (Gibson Southern) - would also use Reece Wilder in situations
  • WR - Sean Delong (Gibson Southern)
  • WR - Marques Ballard (Boonville)
  • WR - Jackson Clowers (Mt. Vernon)
  • WR - Isaac O'Neal (Gibson Southern) - would also use Michael Herren and Cooper Aigner
  • OL - Jacob Bales (Gibson Southern)
  • OL - Jackson Adams (Gibson Southern)
  • OL - Hunter Kolley (Heritage Hills)
  • OL - Gavin Maxey (Boonville)
  • OL - Ruben Gutierrez (Washington) - would also use Drew Walden

Defense

  • DL - Ethan Parker (Boonville) - would also use Brady Schickel
  • DL - Brody Klem (Gibson Southern)
  • DL - Stihl Scott (Boonville)
  • DL - Ty Whitledge (Gibson Southern)
  • LB - Braydon Durham (Heritage Hills)
  • LB - Carter Wolfe (Boonville) 
  • LB - Reece Wilder (Boonville) - would also use Luke Foster
  • DB - Brenden Chew (Heritage Hills)
  • DB - Mason Scheller (Gibson Southern)
  • DB - Cooper Aigner (Boonville)
  • DB - Hayden Gilmore (Princeton) - would also use Nicot Burnett at safety and Clay Conner in situations as a safety or roll down as an outside backer

Coaching Staff: Nick Hart, Todd Wilkerson, Darin Ward, Lukas Messmer

Notes: Apologies, as it appears I've mostly formed the Gibson Southern-Boonville-Heritage Hills All-Star team, but is it really that out-of-line, or is it accurate?

SIAC

Offense

  • QB - Mason Wunderlich (Mater Dei) - would also use Xander Hunt or Roland Vera Jr. in situations
  • RB - Jonas Burnett (Reitz) - would also use Porter Rode and Angelo St. Louis in situations
  • WR - Leo Collins (Memorial) - would also use Weston Aigner here
  • WR - Xavier Thomas (Reitz)
  • WR - Hayden Summers (Reitz)
  • WR - Caleb Ellsperman (Memorial) - would also use Ethan Stolz here
  • OL - Harlen Summers (Reitz)
  • OL - Edward Hartig (Memorial)
  • OL - Jack Cassidy (Memorial)
  • OL - Timmy Dixon (North) - would also use Griffin Hile
  • OL - Quentin Boeke (Reitz) 

Defense

  • DL - Jayden Hazelwood (North)
  • DL - Kelton Farmer (Memorial)
  • DL - Levi Oxley (Reitz)
  • DL - Calab Utley (Reitz) - would also use Kaleb Harris and Cale Johnson
  • LB - John Purdy (Castle)
  • LB - Carac Johnson (Memorial)
  • LB - Ayden Wells (Reitz) - would also use Mitch Adler and Alex Broshears
  • DB - Asher Horn (Harrison) - would also use Elijah Ringo
  • DB - Bralen Bair (Jasper)
  • DB - J'Khari Phifer (Reitz) - would also use Dejaun Gillis or Jackson Draper
  • DB - Ayden Salpietra (Castle) - would also use Roland Vera Jr. here or roll down as an outside backer

Coaching Staff: Mike Goebel, John Hurley, Cory Brunson, Doug Hurt

Notes: Now that I look at it more closely on paper, I think the SIAC would definitely be favored. I do think it would be a very competitive game though.

I know you only looked at Large but there are some Small players that really could help here.  I like Schroeder and Kramer from SR a lot.

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2 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

I know you only looked at Large but there are some Small players that really could help here.  I like Schroeder and Kramer from SR a lot.

I don't doubt it. Apologies again for only speaking on large school PAC. I do know some of the small school players. The two you mentioned obviously, Howald and Meadows from Pike Central, Neukam and Allen from Southridge, Stone and Galvin from NP, Jochem and Lueken from FP, Hurt and Olmstead from SS, Terry and Glenn from TC. But those are really the only players I know much about and I still don't know how they compare to the top large school players or the SIAC for that matter. I could maybe say Schroeder, Kramer, Howald, Neukam, Stone, and Jochem belong on the All-PAC-Stars, but it's hard for me to say past that.

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3 minutes ago, tango said:

LOL. I would pay just to watch Goebel or Hurley run a week's worth of practices with that SIAC team. 

They would age 5-10 years after that one week of coaching them.

But man would it be fun to have that much talent at your disposal!

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Just now, Football Fanatic said:

They would age 5-10 years after that one week of coaching them.

But man would it be fun to have that much talent at your exposure!

I suspect a couple of players may not make it through Practice #1. There's only one way for Coach Goebel and Coach Hurley, or hit the highway..

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9 hours ago, HHPatriots said:

They were middle of the road when you think PAC. And I am referring to big/small school combined. I am not thinking of or even counting Pike, Princeton, Washington, etc.  If we think HH, Southridge, GS, Boonville....the only team that Boonville beat was HH and that was one play at the end of the game.  That's all.  Not saying they were bad.  It is not a shot a Boonville, just to say that of the heavy hitters of the PAC, they only beat one of them and that was very, very close.

I think I understand.  If you ignore all the bad PAC teams then don't count the close victory against HH then Boonville is mediocre.  Got it.  By that logic the PAC only had two teams this year that weren't mediocre.

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7 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

It is definitely a year-to-year basis. 2020 and 2021 PAC knocks the socks off the SIAC with a combination of Brady Allen and Devin Mockabee.

Goebel/Hurley vs Buening/Hart would be an unbelievable coaching matchup. Old School vs New School powerhouses.

Oh, I think we keep our SIAC socks on in 2020 and 2021.

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