SAC 2023 preview

[jakone]

Talking to a few Luers friends in the know are telling me that Luers may start or play multiple sophomores. So I don't expect My Knights to be much of a threat this year.

[NLCTigerFan07]

Everything I've seen and heard says it is a three-way race between Carroll, Snider, and North. Is that correct? What do Homestead and Dwenger have coming back? Any chance for Concordia, Wayne or Northrop to be competitive?

[psaboy]

4 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Everything I've seen and heard says it is a three-way race between Carroll, Snider, and North. Is that correct? What do Homestead and Dwenger have coming back? Any chance for Concordia, Wayne or Northrop to be competitive?

That is probably accurate. Snider and North do not play in regular season, so if Carroll beats them both, they have the inside track to back to back SAC titles. The Carroll/North game is last game of season and could be the game of the year for FWA area. Don't see Homstead as a threat to the big 3, Dwenger can always be a spoiler. Wayne has a chance to be respectable from what I hear, great coach too. 

[Komets2727]

Carroll has to be the favorite with Snider and North Side right there. Homestead is probably next well behind and then I think Wayne is next. Dwenger is going to struggle this year, especially with those first 4 games and that doesn’t even include Snider later in the season.

[Mebuck]

Dwenger will win it all!!

[Frozen Tundra]

I’m interested to see how things play out now that everyone will only play seven conference games. Will this be beneficial come the postseason as some think? Only time will tell.

[jakone]

Why the love for Wayne every year?

[BTF]

2 hours ago, jakone said:

Why the love for Wayne every year?

Sherwood Haydock made a state contender out of both Harding and Woodlan. The expectation is that he makes some noise in his respective class. No one is expecting him to win an SAC title. 

[BTF]

3 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

I’m interested to see how things play out now that everyone will only play seven conference games. Will this be beneficial come the postseason as some think? Only time will tell.

Carroll and Homestead have nothing to lose by taking on the likes of HSE, Warren Central, Carmel, and Noblesville. The SAC elevated Carroll's level of play drastically. Homestead maybe slightly. As 6A programs, Snider can no longer be the bar for where those two teams stand. It's good for them so see 6A Indy caliber football first hand if they want to make noise in the tournament. Personally, I like the idea. But there are others who would argue that Carroll did just fine last year playing only SAC teams, and Snider's been to the big school championship 6 times. 

[Frozen Tundra]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Carroll and Homestead have nothing to lose by taking on the likes of HSE, Warren Central, Carmel, and Noblesville. The SAC elevated Carroll's level of play drastically. Homestead maybe slightly. As 6A programs, Snider can no longer be the bar for where those two teams stand. It's good for them so see 6A Indy caliber football first hand if they want to make noise in the tournament. Personally, I like the idea. But there are others who would argue that Carroll did just fine last year playing only SAC teams, and Snider's been to the big school championship 6 times. 

Not saying teams like Carroll and Homestead have nothing to lose by scheduling the Indy-area 6A schools. I’m just curious whether it’s really going to matter or not come the postseason. After a few years of this new scheduling format, I’ll be interested to see if it pays dividends.

[BTF]

37 minutes ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Not saying teams like Carroll and Homestead have nothing to lose by scheduling the Indy-area 6A schools. I’m just curious whether it’s really going to matter or not come the postseason. After a few years of this new scheduling format, I’ll be interested to see if it pays dividends.

You hit the nail on the head............"after a few years." The MIC didn't make the NHC overnight. It was years in the making. 

[Komets2727]

9 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

I’m interested to see how things play out now that everyone will only play seven conference games. Will this be beneficial come the postseason as some think? Only time will tell.

It definitely will pay dividends down the road. What are Carroll and Snider getting from playing South Side, Northrop, Concordia, and Wayne every year? Not a damn thing!!! If nothing else, it gives them a measuring stick as to where they need to be come playoff time. They certainly get nothing by beating teams 63-0. Just as important, those lower tier teams can go and play games against competition they have a better chance against

[Frozen Tundra]

2 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

It definitely will pay dividends down the road. What are Carroll and Snider getting from playing South Side, Northrop, Concordia, and Wayne every year? Not a damn thing!!! If nothing else, it gives them a measuring stick as to where they need to be come playoff time. They certainly get nothing by beating teams 63-0. Just as important, those lower tier teams can go and play games against competition they have a better chance against

I don’t think it’s safe to say that it’ll pay dividends. I think we’d like to say that but can’t know that for sure until we have about ten years’ worth of evidence. You asked what Carroll and Snider are getting from playing South Side, Northrop, Concordia, and Wayne every year. I’d argue that those are only four games out of a nine game schedule and that the overall quality of the conference (thanks to the other five teams on the schedule) makes up for that.

I know we like to say tougher schedules translate to championships or that testing yourself in the non-conference can translate to championships. However, I’d counter that by saying it’s not always true. I think it can depend on your culture, the coaching, and how talented your players are.

Take Columbus East for example. My guys play in one of the weakest, if not the weakest, big school conferences in the state (4A-6A schools). When Bob Gaddis was the head coach, I think we averaged about one ranked opponent per year in the regular season. Most times, that opponent was rival Columbus North (a non-conference opponent).

Nevertheless, Gaddis was at Columbus East for 20 seasons. After a rocky first three years, his last 17 years were incredible. From 2004-2020, Columbus East went to semi-state or further ten times. Three of those ten times ended at Lucas Oil Stadium with a 4A championship, a 5A runner-up, and a 5A championship.

In particular, the 2013 team beat every opponent from week 1 to semi-state week by at least 28 points. Dwenger was the only test that year but Columbus East squeaked by them to win the 4A title.

Regardless, Bob Gaddis went 115-1 in conference play during his final 17 years at Columbus East. Most of those 115 wins were blowouts and it was so common seeing the JV team come in during the third quarter every week. Everyone said we couldn’t win a championship because of this. Yet, this allowed the back-ups and JV players to get so much experience that they were prepared by the time they were varsity starters. It also kept the team fresh and we never had any significant injuries.

In summation, my point is that beefing up the schedule doesn’t always translate to championships or even deep postseason runs. You can go deep and win championships even in a crappy conference (see New Palestine as another example). If you have a good coach, talented players, and a great culture then you can overcome a regular season schedule containing multiple weak opponents.

[BTF]

8 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

What are Carroll and Snider getting from playing South Side, Northrop, Concordia, and Wayne every year? Not a damn thing!!! If nothing else, it gives them a measuring stick as to where they need to be come playoff time. They certainly get nothing by beating teams 63-0. 

I guess you could argue that the team is getting rest and the second stringers are getting valuable reps. Or the first stringers could work on some of their weaker areas when up 3 or 4 touchdowns. There's something to be said for having a healthy team come playoff time  versus one that has been beaten up by playing monster programs. 

I agree that to win the trophy in 6A, you need to see those Indy teams sometime during the regular season. Carroll and Homestead did the right thing. As much as we fans would like to see Snider rumble with the Indy big dogs, I'm not sure it does much for them at the 5A level. Whereas the Snider program felt that Warsaw and East Noble provide them with challenging contests without getting beat up too badly, I'd like to see more of Penn, Lafayette Jeff, Noblesville, Fishers, Westfield, or HSE. I might feel differently if Snider were a staple in 6A, but at most, they look to bounce back and forth every few years. 

Columbus East reminds me a lot of Snider just based on what I've seen on paper. They've proven they can have a very good program by playing a schedule that is sub par and make it to the state finals. But I think it's a benefit to a team if the team they are playing for the championship isn't necessarily the best team they played all season. In 5A, playing an SAC schedule is no longer an issue for Snider. Chances are, in the SAC's current state of affairs, Valpo, Merrillville, or Whiteland aren't any better than Carroll or North Side. It's when the Panthers jump up the 6A that they'll have issues.............unless Carroll, Homestead, and North Side continue to improve as programs, therefore not feeling like they hit a brick wall when they get to Indy. 

It's complicated, I can see both sides of the coin. I could go on and on about the teams from Indy that Snider's beaten in the past after playing an SAC only schedule.  

[Frozen Tundra]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

I guess you could argue that the team is getting rest and the second stringers are getting valuable reps. Or the first stringers could work on some of their weaker areas when up 3 or 4 touchdowns. There's something to be said for having a healthy team come playoff time  versus one that has been beaten up by playing monster programs. 

I agree that to win the trophy in 6A, you need to see those Indy teams sometime during the regular season. Carroll and Homestead did the right thing. As much as we fans would like to see Snider rumble with the Indy big dogs, I'm not sure it does much for them at the 5A level. Whereas the Snider program felt that Warsaw and East Noble provide them with challenging contests without getting beat up too badly, I'd like to see more of Penn, Lafayette Jeff, Noblesville, Fishers, Westfield, or HSE. I might feel differently if Snider were a staple in 6A, but at most, they look to bounce back and forth every few years. 

Columbus East reminds me a lot of Snider just based on what I've seen on paper. They've proven they can have a very good program by playing a schedule that is sub par and make it to the state finals. But I think it's a benefit to a team if the team they are playing for the championship isn't necessarily the best team they played all season. In 5A, playing an SAC schedule is no longer an issue for Snider. Chances are, in the SAC's current state of affairs, Valpo, Merrillville, or Whiteland aren't any better than Carroll or North Side. It's when the Panthers jump up the 6A that they'll have issues.............unless Carroll, Homestead, and North Side continue to improve as programs, therefore not feeling like they hit a brick wall when they get to Indy. 

It's complicated, I can see both sides of the coin. I could go on and on about the teams from Indy that Snider's beaten in the past after playing an SAC only schedule.  

Agreed. Plus, I don’t think regular season games are needed as measuring sticks. The failures of previous postseason games, those alone should be the measuring sticks. I’ll go back to Columbus East as an example.

In 2006, 2008, 2011, and 2012 we fell to Cathedral at semi-state each time. Coach Gaddis didn’t feel the need to schedule Cathedral or even Roncalli to gauge what the measuring stick was. Previous experiences of playing Cathedral in the postseason gave him the insight needed of what it took to win those games.

Gaddis was a great communicator and had a tremendous ability to convey this message to his players so that they understood what was expected. He knew, and they knew, they had to be above that level if they wanted to beat Cathedral and/or win a state championship. The tide turned in 2013 en route to a 4A state title and then Columbus East finally got the Cathedral monkey off their back in 2017 by drubbing them 42-13 en route to a 5A state title.

When we smoked New Palestine at semi-state by 35 en route to the 2013 4A state title, Kyle Ralph didn’t decide to go out and beef up the schedule to prepare for a rematch with Columbus East. He inspired his team to hit the weight room and motivated them by saying Columbus East was the measuring stick if they wanted to win a state title. It paid off. They came back in 2014 and were bigger and stronger than before. A last second field goal got them the win against us in the 2014 semi-state and they throttled New Prairie in the 4A state title game a week later.

Therefore, I feel like Carroll and Homestead should already know what the measuring stick is based on how their last few postseasons ended. I’m not sure regular season games against those Indy suburb schools are needed. 

Needless to say, all teams are different. What worked for Columbus East and New Palestine may not work for others. 6A is also another beast entirely so one could definitely make the argument the rules are different in that classification. I just know I really enjoy following football in the northeast part of the state, especially in the immediate Fort Wayne area. You guys have a ton of talent and a lot of high-quality football gets played there. I’m thankful WANE 15 posts their game highlight clips on YouTube every week so I can keep track. Best of luck to all this season.

[Komets2727]

9 hours ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Agreed. Plus, I don’t think regular season games are needed as measuring sticks. The failures of previous postseason games, those alone should be the measuring sticks. I’ll go back to Columbus East as an example.

In 2006, 2008, 2011, and 2012 we fell to Cathedral at semi-state each time. Coach Gaddis didn’t feel the need to schedule Cathedral or even Roncalli to gauge what the measuring stick was. Previous experiences of playing Cathedral in the postseason gave him the insight needed of what it took to win those games.

Gaddis was a great communicator and had a tremendous ability to convey this message to his players so that they understood what was expected. He knew, and they knew, they had to be above that level if they wanted to beat Cathedral and/or win a state championship. The tide turned in 2013 en route to a 4A state title and then Columbus East finally got the Cathedral monkey off their back in 2017 by drubbing them 42-13 en route to a 5A state title.

When we smoked New Palestine at semi-state by 35 en route to the 2013 4A state title, Kyle Ralph didn’t decide to go out and beef up the schedule to prepare for a rematch with Columbus East. He inspired his team to hit the weight room and motivated them by saying Columbus East was the measuring stick if they wanted to win a state title. It paid off. They came back in 2014 and were bigger and stronger than before. A last second field goal got them the win against us in the 2014 semi-state and they throttled New Prairie in the 4A state title game a week later.

Therefore, I feel like Carroll and Homestead should already know what the measuring stick is based on how their last few postseasons ended. I’m not sure regular season games against those Indy suburb schools are needed. 

Needless to say, all teams are different. What worked for Columbus East and New Palestine may not work for others. 6A is also another beast entirely so one could definitely make the argument the rules are different in that classification. I just know I really enjoy following football in the northeast part of the state, especially in the immediate Fort Wayne area. You guys have a ton of talent and a lot of high-quality football gets played there. I’m thankful WANE 15 posts their game highlight clips on YouTube every week so I can keep track. Best of luck to all this season.

Excellent post!!! I still disagree that playing better competition is better than playing South Side, Concordia, etc… As far as players getting reps, that is what JV is for. Carroll and Snider will still get easy games even with playing 2 out of conference games as they both have easy games in the SAC this year. If Snider plays East Noble and Warsaw, I don’t understand that. They can play similar teams in the SAC. Go play Penn, HSE, Carmel, Columbus East, etc… 

[Frozen Tundra]

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

Excellent post!!! I still disagree that playing better competition is better than playing South Side, Concordia, etc… As far as players getting reps, that is what JV is for. Carroll and Snider will still get easy games even with playing 2 out of conference games as they both have easy games in the SAC this year. If Snider plays East Noble and Warsaw, I don’t understand that. They can play similar teams in the SAC. Go play Penn, HSE, Carmel, Columbus East, etc… 

I appreciate the respect in mentioning Columbus East here but we’re not what we once were. Bob Gaddis’ retirement after the 2020 season coincided with the talent pool drying up. Outside of a player or two, a majority of whatever talent there is within our school district ends up going to Columbus North these days. We knew things couldn’t last forever but back-to-back 4-6 seasons have been a tough pill to swallow.

[psaboy]

On 8/7/2023 at 2:20 PM, Frozen Tundra said:

I’m interested to see how things play out now that everyone will only play seven conference games. Will this be beneficial come the postseason as some think? Only time will tell.

I think that the out of conference games would better serve the SAC teams mid/late season vs early in the season.

 

[Frozen Tundra]

23 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I think that the out of conference games would better serve the SAC teams mid/late season vs early in the season.

 

Problem is, they probably wouldn’t be able to get these quality games any time other than at the beginning of the season.

[CLKeller16]

What are the scrimmages tonight? I saw on Facebook that Concordia is playing East Noble, Northrop is playing Huntington North, and Wayne is playing Leo. Does anyone have a full schedule for the SAC scrimmages? Times and locations? Thinking about going to the Snider one.

[IPFWFootball]

On the flip side of the top teams getting to face tougher challenges and making them better prepared for postseason play (Which I totally believe), I think the lower end SAC teams will benefit greatly from getting to compete against other teams on their size/skill level. Having competitive and winnable games can do huge things for teams like South/Wayne/Concordia with building confidence and belief in the program compared to having to just get trounced by the teams at the top.

[BTF]

13 minutes ago, CLKeller16 said:

What are the scrimmages tonight? I saw on Facebook that Concordia is playing East Noble, Northrop is playing Huntington North, and Wayne is playing Leo. Does anyone have a full schedule for the SAC scrimmages? Times and locations? Thinking about going to the Snider one.

I think this is Snider's year to host Homestead on campus. 

[jakone]

1 hour ago, CLKeller16 said:

What are the scrimmages tonight? I saw on Facebook that Concordia is playing East Noble, Northrop is playing Huntington North, and Wayne is playing Leo. Does anyone have a full schedule for the SAC scrimmages? Times and locations? Thinking about going to the Snider one.

Luers and Heritage scrimmage tonight.

[psaboy]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:44 AM, BTF said:

I think this is Snider's year to host Homestead on campus. 

Anyone have any feedback on the scrimmage?