IMG-Ben Davis: Why is this game being played?

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 8/9/2023 at 11:47 AM, temptation said:

Nah, they wanted them to throw the ball those nights...trust me. 

Penn had a better shot at a possible incompletion than they did stopping Desmond Tardy or Reese Taylor on the ground those nights.

That was the first time any of my generation had witnessed Penn get the brakes beaten off of them. We thought we would be in a dog fight, but....the freaking speed was insane. 

The Ben Davis game, was probably the best all around team I had ever seen on a high school football field. Crazy thing is we just watch Penn dominate a strong Carmel team....and well you know the rest.

[temptation]

52 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

The Ben Davis thrashing doesn't bother me as much. Penn made a bunch of weird mistakes in the first half that, we had not seen them do in a very long time. Not fielding kick offs, muffing kick offs. It was a tragedy. I don't fault Ben Davis for beat the living hell out of Penn. 

My biggest issue was the Carmel game at state...they were deliberately throwing the ball on Penn in the second half. The coach was the same guy from Warren, and wanted to make it a point that Carmel should have been in the North and it should have been an all Indy final...He ran the score up to embarrass us. And he did exactly what he set out to do. Penn has not been competitive in any state finals....maybe consider the Center Grove game, close....Since Gees left. 

I personally have no angst towards Ben Davis, I do hate Carmel though. 

“The coach was the same guy from Warren, and wanted to make it a point that Carmel should have been in the North and it should have been an all Indy final.“

Obviously you have supporting evidence to this claim…or at least a quote right?

[Larry317]

IMG is also playing a public high school in Jacksonville,Fl called Bartram Trail HS. I would equate them to a Carmel. Maybe IMG is just trying to play some schools they know for sure will not be like Bishop Sycamore. 

[BTF]

2 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Carmel though. 

I don't think you are alone. Maybe the culture has changed in the last decade or two, but unsportsmanlike conduct was pretty common in the 90's. There was an arrogance there. 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

We thought we would be in a dog fight, but....the freaking speed was insane. 

Did Penn have turf back then? Different outcome on grass. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

16 hours ago, temptation said:

“The coach was the same guy from Warren, and wanted to make it a point that Carmel should have been in the North and it should have been an all Indy final.“

Obviously you have supporting evidence to this claim…or at least a quote right?

Sorry, I don't have the document on hand. I believe I read it on this message board. Also, the pre-game video they showed had him saying they were there to make history....

That game, he (play calling) was deliberately throwing the ball in the second half. The Carmel game just like the Warren and the future Ben Davis games were all won by half. I was at all three games, that one, was the worst of the three. 

15 hours ago, BTF said:

Did Penn have turf back then? Different outcome on grass. 

No grass still.

We would have had to grow the grass long, to try and slow down the beast that was Warren Central.

The crazy thing is the weekend before we played the game of our lives against Snider, a very talented team....They just didn't have Tardy and Co. 

[temptation]

22 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Sorry, I don't have the document on hand. I believe I read it on this message board. Also, the pre-game video they showed had him saying they were there to make history....

That game, he (play calling) was deliberately throwing the ball in the second half. The Carmel game just like the Warren and the future Ben Davis games were all won by half. I was at all three games, that one, was the worst of the three. 

No grass still.

We would have had to grow the grass long, to try and slow down the beast that was Warren Central.

The crazy thing is the weekend before we played the game of our lives against Snider, a very talented team....They just didn't have Tardy and Co. 

They were there to "MAKE HISTORY"...oh the humanity!  LOL @ these sour grapes.

And you read it on a MESSAGE BOARD...wow.

You should probably take a lap.

[BTF]

1 hour ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Sorry, I don't have the document on hand. I believe I read it on this message board. Also, the pre-game video they showed had him saying they were there to make history....

That game, he (play calling) was deliberately throwing the ball in the second half. The Carmel game just like the Warren and the future Ben Davis games were all won by half. I was at all three games, that one, was the worst of the three. 

No grass still.

We would have had to grow the grass long, to try and slow down the beast that was Warren Central.

The crazy thing is the weekend before we played the game of our lives against Snider, a very talented team....They just didn't have Tardy and Co. 

Penn has always been a different team at Freed Field. Some people would go as far as saying that "real" football is played on grass, similar to "real" football being played in the elements. Going by that definition, those embarrassing blowouts at state to the Indy teams are a lot less blowouts on grass. In your opinion, would it serve Penn better if they had a turf field? Maybe they could see more speed that way before they head to Lucas Oil. 

[temptation]

37 minutes ago, BTF said:

Penn has always been a different team at Freed Field. Some people would go as far as saying that "real" football is played on grass, similar to "real" football being played in the elements. Going by that definition, those embarrassing blowouts at state to the Indy teams are a lot less blowouts on grass. In your opinion, would it serve Penn better if they had a turf field? Maybe they could see more speed that way before they head to Lucas Oil. 

C'mon...

 

[Ballhawk]

2 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

We would have had to grow the grass long, to try and slow down the beast that was Warren Central.

The crazy thing is the weekend before we played the game of our lives against Snider, a very talented team....They just didn't have Tardy and Co. 

So if I'm faster than you on turf I'm not faster than you on grass?

Warren was bigger, faster and stronger.  Does grass change that too?

Enlighten me.

[Gipper]

I've never been a fan of local teams playing prep schools, the risk of injury is greatly exacerbated.   And I don't think IMG has a goat to steal...

[PDB26]

2 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

So if I'm faster than you on turf I'm not faster than you on grass?

Warren was bigger, faster and stronger.  Does grass change that too?

Enlighten me.

I've never understood the long grass theory myself. Sure, there's better footing inside on turf, but both teams benefit equally from that. The closest I can get to endorsing such a thing is if it's wet outside, but the poor footing just introduces more randomness that could kill big plays than it does equalize speed. Faster is faster wherever you are.

3 hours ago, temptation said:

C'mon...

Yeah, I'm with you here. The surface has nothing to do with the outcome. The big factors in '03 were Warren's speed, size, and strength. Throw on top that we weren't a great option defense, even against the conventional option looks of the day, playing a brand new package just for that game, and you get a big number hanging on the board. I've seen a video recently with footage from inside Warren's locker room, and it seems like either Wright had been or felt disrespected, or he did a masterful job with his team in the final minutes before kickoff. Either way, it's no big deal, and every team is trying to prove something. 

[temptation]

10 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

I've never understood the long grass theory myself. Sure, there's better footing inside on turf, but both teams benefit equally from that. The closest I can get to endorsing such a thing is if it's wet outside, but the poor footing just introduces more randomness that could kill big plays than it does equalize speed. Faster is faster wherever you are.

Yeah, I'm with you here. The surface has nothing to do with the outcome. The big factors in '03 were Warren's speed, size, and strength. Throw on top that we weren't a great option defense, even against the conventional option looks of the day, playing a brand new package just for that game, and you get a big number hanging on the board. I've seen a video recently with footage from inside Warren's locker room, and it seems like either Wright had been or felt disrespected, or he did a masterful job with his team in the final minutes before kickoff. Either way, it's no big deal, and every team is trying to prove something. 

I dunno.  A blade of grass had a better chance of stopping Tardy than the "Wild Bunch" that night.

[Bobref]

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

I dunno.  A blade of grass had a better chance of stopping Tardy than the "Wild Bunch" that night.

I was the Referee in that game. Still, the most amazing performance by a high school team I’ve seen.

[temptation]

19 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I was the Referee in that game. Still, the most amazing performance by a high school team I’ve seen.

Still maintain they could have scored 100.

[PDB26]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

I dunno.  A blade of grass had a better chance of stopping Tardy than the "Wild Bunch" that night.

Probably would have needed more than one.

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Still maintain they could have scored 100.

And Tardy wasn’t even their best player that night. They had a linebacker, “Brick” Graham. He had a nice career at Michigan. He was the wedge buster on their kickoff coverage… and they kicked off a lot. Get some of that video if you want to make a case for eliminating the kickoff for safety reasons. When he hit that wedge, it sounded like a bomb going off.

Edited August 11, 2023 by Bobref

[BTF]

5 hours ago, temptation said:

C'mon...

 

C'mon. You really think the outcome would be exactly the same at Freed Field? Same winner and loser, different score though. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Still maintain they could have scored 100.

On turf, 50 at most at Freed Field.

[temptation]

2 hours ago, BTF said:

C'mon. You really think the outcome would be exactly the same at Freed Field? Same winner and loser, different score though. 

On turf, 50 at most at Freed Field.

Yes, but not because of the surface.

[PDB26]

4 hours ago, BTF said:

C'mon. You really think the outcome would be exactly the same at Freed Field? Same winner and loser, different score though. 

I don't think we could have stopped them from scoring the way we schemed it up--one of several reasons. The only way Warren would have scored less is if our offense was able to hold onto the ball for long stretches.

4 hours ago, Bobref said:

And Tardy wasn’t even their best player that night. They had a linebacker, “Brick” Graham.

He was everywhere. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by PDB26

[BDGiant93]

On 8/10/2023 at 4:00 PM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

The Ben Davis thrashing doesn't bother me as much. Penn made a bunch of weird mistakes in the first half that, we had not seen them do in a very long time. Not fielding kick offs, muffing kick offs. It was a tragedy. I don't fault Ben Davis for beat the living hell out of Penn. 

My biggest issue was the Carmel game at state...they were deliberately throwing the ball on Penn in the second half. The coach was the same guy from Warren, and wanted to make it a point that Carmel should have been in the North and it should have been an all Indy final...He ran the score up to embarrass us. And he did exactly what he set out to do. Penn has not been competitive in any state finals....maybe consider the Center Grove game, close....Since Gees left. 

I personally have no angst towards Ben Davis, I do hate Carmel though. 

Penn and Ben Davis have a mutual respect for each other dating back to Dullaghan and Geesman.

[psaboy]

On 8/9/2023 at 7:23 AM, temptation said:

Agree on all points.

I’ll ask a similar question as I did in the Warren/Snider thread…

Ben Davis keeps this game within XX points and can walk away with their head held high?

Also, excuse my lack of knowledge but since this contest is on Indiana soil it’ll be played with the IHSAA mercy rule specifics in place?

Where is the Warren/Snider thread?

[psaboy]

It is a 15.5 hour drive, with stops, I would say it will be a 18+ hour trip in the team bus. Guess we will see if the long road trip thing plays into the game.

 

 

 

Wait, I'm betting they have their our charter plane, so never mind. 

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Where is the Warren/Snider thread?

Think it’s just in the Snider preview thread.

Too lazy to look.

[psaboy]

10 hours ago, temptation said:

Think it’s just in the Snider preview thread.

Too lazy to look.

Couldn't find anything in quick review of threads. I'll take your word for it. Are you wondering why WC is playing the Mighty Panthers of Snider or vice versa?