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Alexandria Ocasoi-Cortez - Needs her own thread.....


swordfish

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17 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Don't know about large volumes, but I'm sure that it probably speaks for some on the left.  My question wasn't about large volumes, but simply a response to a question that asked "Must he speak for anyone?"  My question was "does he speak for anyone."  Just like in A Night At The Garden, if you heard  Fritz Kuhn without seeing the accompanying footage, you might be lulled into acting like he's an outlier and even ask "Does anyone believe the same" or "Seriously, he's off his rocker and an outlier" until you see his speech along with the imagery.  As the documentary's director said, " But while the vast majority of Americans were appalled by the Nazis, there was also a significant group of Americans who were sympathetic to their white supremacist, anti-Semitic message. When you see 20,000 Americans gathering in Madison Square Garden, you can be sure that many times that were passively supportive."  My question about, "does he" speak for others is merely suggesting that I doubt this is a single lone voice and that there are perhaps "many times that are passively/actively supportive."

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19 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

But supporting what IO and SF said, I think (or at least hope) most of this country thinks this guy's an idiot nutcase.

Unfortunately, way too many in the comment section, don't seem to think so.

https://www.al.com/news/2019/02/alabama-press-group-censures-goodloe-sutton-over-kkk-editorial-suspends-democrat-reporter.html

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4 minutes ago, BARRYOSAMA said:

As I stated before "does he [speak for others]?"

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4 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

I don't know...purely speculation on my part...but it feels today, an agenda of new media (on both sides of the political spectrum) dictate what catches fire....as they attempt to reach their audiences.

Its about the politics....and ultimately the $$.  

But supporting what IO and SF said, I think (or at least hope) most of this country thinks this guy's an idiot nutcase.

Most may, but unfortunately it's folks like this guy that don't ...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coast-guard-lieutenant-accused-murder-plot-scale-rarely-seen-country-223900168.html

FTA:

In a motion filed Tuesday, U.S. attorneys said Christopher Hasson, a lieutenant in the U.S. Coast Guard who has served at the service’s headquarters in Washington since 2016, had a hit list of targets, a cache of guns and a series of communications with white supremacists. The first sentence in the motion imploring the court to detain Hasson pending trial: “The defendant intends to murder innocent civilians on a scale rarely seen in this country.”

...

On Jan. 17, Hasson allegedly compiled a list of targets including a number of Democratic politicians and left-leaning political commentators. The names on the list include “Sen blumen jew” (presumably Sen. Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn.,) and “poca warren” (presumably Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass.).

There are also references to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and a long list of additional Democratic senators, including Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., Cory Booker, D-N.J., Kamala Harris, D-Calif., and Tim Kaine, D-Va. The list also includes likely references to a number of House members (Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., and Rep. Ilhan Omar, D-Minn.), television hosts (Joe Scarborough and Chris Hayes of MSNBC, Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo of CNN), former Rep. Beto O’Rourke of Texas and the Democratic Socialists of America.

On the same day he finished the list, the court filing says, Hasson completed the following Google searches over the course of three hours: “what if trump illegally impeached,” “best place in dc to see congress people,” “where in dc to congress live,” “civil war if trump impeached” and “social democrats usa.”

Hasson’s alleged online searches for pro-Russian, neo-fascist and neo-Nazi literature, along with draft emails recovered from his email offer insight into what prosecutors describe as extremist views.

“I am dreaming of a way to kill almost every last person on the earth,” Hasson allegedly wrote in a draft email to “acquaintances” last June; in the email, he appears to outline a stream of possible ways — ranging from biological attacks to bombing/sniper campaign” — to violently fight back against “Liberalist/Globalist ideology is destroying traditional peoples esp white.”

“It seems inevitable that we are doomed,” the email continues, with Hasson soliciting ideas for how he might “enlist the help of another power/country,” such as Russia “or any land that despises the west’s liberalism. Excluding of course the muslim scum,” conceding, “I don’t think I can cause complete destruction on my own.”

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3 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say, but as a society, I see more stereotyping today than I ever have.  Yes, I am sure the guy does speak for others....but truly what is the % of society.  20,000 from 350M?  

It would be like me stereotyping anyone left as sympathetic or supportive to Antifa's methods.  We know that isn't true....but they sure have a decent following.

That's the part that I'm trying to figure out. 

I'm not trying to stereotype or tie any particular group to this guy's speech.  I'm trying to gauge how much he represents a canary in a coal mine or just a lone cuckoo.  I think he's much more in the realm of the former rather than the latter.  As for the 20,000 out of 350M.  In a Night At The Garden, that was 20,000 that showed up and, as the director pointed out, if you have that many in plain sight, there's clearly plenty more behind the scenes and in support.  The question is what might they be willing or able to put in action.  In 1926, only 50,000 Klansman marched through the streets of DC in an organized parade, but it's estimated that the Klan had a membership of between two and five million at that time ... up from roughly a million three years earlier and 100,000 four years earlier.  Those 2-5 million members had millions of non-member sympathizers too and it's readily apparent what that kind of membership/non-membership was able to do in the following years.  Perhaps there's nothing to his rhetoric, although I'm frankly not willing to take that kind of chance given that I've seen first-hand what it leads to. 

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7 minutes ago, foxbat said:

That's the part that I'm trying to figure out. 

I'm not trying to stereotype or tie any particular group to this guy's speech.  I'm trying to gauge how much he represents a canary in a coal mine or just a lone cuckoo.  I think he's much more in the realm of the former rather than the latter.  As for the 20,000 out of 350M.  In a Night At The Garden, that was 20,000 that showed up and, as the director pointed out, if you have that many in plain sight, there's clearly plenty more behind the scenes and in support.  The question is what might they be willing or able to put in action.  In 1926, only 50,000 Klansman marched through the streets of DC in an organized parade, but it's estimated that the Klan had a membership of between two and five million at that time ... up from roughly a million three years earlier and 100,000 four years earlier.  Those 2-5 million members had millions of non-member sympathizers too and it's readily apparent what that kind of membership/non-membership was able to do in the following years.  Perhaps there's nothing to his rhetoric, although I'm frankly not willing to take that kind of chance given that I've seen first-hand what it leads to. 

Just in yesterday evening ...

https://www.voanews.com/a/us-hate-groups-hit-record-number-last-year-amid-increased-violence/4797147.html

FTA:

American hate groups had a bumper year in 2018 as a surge in black and white nationalist groups lifted their number to a new record high, the Southern Poverty Law Center said in a report issued Wednesday.

The Alabama-based legal advocacy organization recorded 1,020 active hate groups last year, up 7 percent from 2017. The previous record tallied by SPLC was 1,018 in 2011 amid a white extremist backlash against the presidency of Barack Obama, the nation's first African-American president.

The increase was driven by growth in both black and white nationalist groups, the SPLC said. The number of white nationalist groups jumped from 100 to 148, while the number of black nationalist groups — typically anti-Semitic, anti-LGBTQ and anti-white — rose from 233 to 264.

...

Hate crimes have followed a similar trajectory in recent years. After falling for three consecutive years, attacks on blacks, Jews, Muslims and other minorities increased by 30 percent in the three-year period ending in 2017, according to the latest FBI data.

The uptrend continued into last year, with hate crimes in America's 30 largest cities surging by an additional 10 percent, according to the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino.

The majority of hate crimes are nonviolent, but some incidents were deadly. White supremacists in the U.S. and Canada killed at least 40 people last year, up from 17 people the year before, according to the SPLC's tally.

While most bias-motivated offenses are not committed by members of hate groups, the perpetrators of hate crimes draw inspiration from ideas put out by hate groups, said Heidi Beirich, director of the SPLC's Intelligence Project and author of the report.

 

[emphasis in last sentence of the article is mine]

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14 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Just in yesterday evening ...

https://www.voanews.com/a/us-hate-groups-hit-record-number-last-year-amid-increased-violence/4797147.html

FTA:

American hate groups had a bumper year in 2018 as a surge in black and white nationalist groups lifted their number to a new record high, the Southern Poverty Law Center said in a report issued Wednesday.

The Alabama-based legal advocacy organization recorded 1,020 active hate groups last year, up 7 percent from 2017. The previous record tallied by SPLC was 1,018 in 2011 amid a white extremist backlash against the presidency of Barack Obama, the nation's first African-American president.

The increase was driven by growth in both black and white nationalist groups, the SPLC said. The number of white nationalist groups jumped from 100 to 148, while the number of black nationalist groups — typically anti-Semitic, anti-LGBTQ and anti-white — rose from 233 to 264.

...

Hate crimes have followed a similar trajectory in recent years. After falling for three consecutive years, attacks on blacks, Jews, Muslims and other minorities increased by 30 percent in the three-year period ending in 2017, according to the latest FBI data.

The uptrend continued into last year, with hate crimes in America's 30 largest cities surging by an additional 10 percent, according to the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino.

The majority of hate crimes are nonviolent, but some incidents were deadly. White supremacists in the U.S. and Canada killed at least 40 people last year, up from 17 people the year before, according to the SPLC's tally.

While most bias-motivated offenses are not committed by members of hate groups, the perpetrators of hate crimes draw inspiration from ideas put out by hate groups, said Heidi Beirich, director of the SPLC's Intelligence Project and author of the report.

 

[emphasis in last sentence of the article is mine]

Meh, the SPLC has it's own biases:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/southern-poverty-law-center-bias-hate-group-labels-scam/

Quote

There was a time when the Southern Poverty Law Center did useful work reporting on actual hate groups such as the KKK. These days, though, the SPLC is simply a MoveOn or Media Matters–style outfit. Its core mission now is trying to marginalize and shut up even mildly right-of-center voices by calling them instruments of hate, making increasingly strained attempts to tie conservative commentators, authors, political figures, and professors to the alt-right or neo-Nazism. At the same time it elevates absurd bloggers to the level of potential leaders of lynch mobs.

The equivalent of a Drudge-siren moment for SPLC is when it rolls out yet another faux-neutral report on hate, which is always getting worse and threatening to engulf the republic. The SPLC’s report on “Male supremacy,” which it calls “a hateful ideology for the subjugation of women” and ties to the men’s-rights activists lurking on 4Chan and Reddit who boast about their supposed dominance of women, lists as pernicious allies the psychologist, author, and PJ Media columnist Helen Smith and the American Enterprise Institute scholar Christina Hoff Sommers, calling them “anti-feminist female voices” who “give the men’s rights movement a veneer of even-handedness” and lend a “mainstream and respectable face to some MRA concerns.”

...

SPLC, founded by a direct-mail zillionaire named Morris Dees, spends far more on direct-mail fundraising pleas ($10 million) than it ever has on legal services, according to an analysis by Philanthropy Roundtable, and has never passed along more than 31 percent of its funding to charitable programs, sometimes as little as 18 percent. Meanwhile it has built itself a palatial six-story headquarters and an endowment of more than $200 million. In essence it is a machine for turning leftist hysteria into cash that portrays itself as a non-partisan, fact-finding group and has long been treated as such by media institutions such as the Washington Post and the New York Times. 

...

https://www.dailywire.com/news/8967/7-things-you-need-know-about-southern-poverty-law-aaron-bandler

Quote

The reality is that the SPLC is a leftist hack advocacy group which picks and chooses what standards to apply to its labels, consistently turning a blind eye to leftist and pro-Democrat groups and individuals while targeting, often unfairly, their enemies on the right. Here are seven things you need to know about the SPLC.

1. The SPLC was founded by a leftist who sought out leftist donors to enrich himself. 

...

2. The SPLC vastly overstates the number of hate groups in the country. One of the reasons for this is that the SPLC has a bad habit of labeling groups with conservative positions as hate groups. 

...

3. The SPLC is not interested in classifying a leftist organization as a hate group. In 2011, National Review's Charles Cooke pressed the SPLC as to why they weren't tracking the Occupy Wall Street movement after a group affiliated with the movement plotted to blow up a bridge in Cleveland, Ohio. After a back-and-forth with a male representative from the SPLC, Cooke got the representative to admit: "We’re not really set up to cover the extreme Left."

...

4. A shooting occurred at the Family Research Council (FRC) in 2012 after the organization was labeled a hate group by the SPLC. The shooter, Floyd Lee Corkins, admitted that he wanted to "kill as many as possible and smear the Chick-Fil-A sandwiches in victims’ faces, and kill the guard" after he saw the FRC listed on the SPLC's website as a "hate group."

....

5. In 2014, the SPLC actually listed Dr. Ben Carson under their "Extremist Files" list. Via The Christian Science Monitor:

In February 2015, after criticism of his inclusion, the group apologized to the candidate. The SPLC said that while some might consider Dr. Carson’s statements, including several that referenced Adolf Hitler, and comments on gay marriage, to be extreme, he should not have been branded an extremist.

The Hitler comments are a reference to when Carson said, "The likelihood of Hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been armed." This is hardly an extreme comment, in fact it's accurate. Carson's opposition to gay marriage is also not a viewpoint worthy of being put on an extremist list.

....

6. The FBI removed the SPLC as a "resource" in 2014 for their "hate crime Web page." The FBI refused to comment on it, but according to The Blaze, the move came "after 15 conservative groups lobbied Attorney General Eric Holder and FBI Director James Comey to end the endorsement."

7. The actual hate group is the SPLC. As Human Events concluded in 2011:

All of which begs the question: Is the SPLC, by its own criteria, the real hate group? It still carries weight in plenty of circles here in America, and so when it categorizes an organization as a hate group, many people of good conscience are influenced by that designation, one which is quite stigmatizing and destructive, as evidenced by the recent events involving FOTF and AFA mentioned above. Yet it is the leaders of the SPLC who are either irresponsibly attacking other fine organizations, or worse still, knowingly defaming them.

Who then deserves the title of “hate group,” Focus on the Family or the Southern Poverty Law Center? Who has been guilty of demonizing others and spreading hurtful, inaccurate information? Whose actions and words have been hateful? The record speaks for itself.

 

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8 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes, by all means, let's ignore the FBI stats or the input from the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino in the article to take a shot at the SPLC.  If you've got contradicting/contrary numbers, then by all means please post them.

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6 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Yes, by all means, let's ignore the FBI stats or the input from the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino in the article to take a shot at the SPLC.  If you've got contradicting/contrary numbers, then by all means please post them.

I don't recall ever stating that we should ignore FBI statistics, or input from this CSU entity.  

If you want to talk about contradicting/contrary numbers, we first have to all agree on the definition of "hate group", don't we?

One may also have to support the concept of a "hate crime" in the first place.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Muda69 said:

I don't recall ever stating that we should ignore FBI statistics, or input from this CSU entity.  

If you want to talk about contradicting/contrary numbers, we first have to all agree on the definition of "hate group", don't we?

One may also have to support the concept of a "hate crime" in the first place.

 

 

Obfuscation.  Kind of like those uptick counts, eh?

 

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11 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Obfuscation.  Kind of like those uptick counts, eh?

 

I don't understand how my statements concerning the definitions of hate groups and hate crimes are obfuscating.  Please enlighten me.

Goes to show how meaningless those 'upticks' really are.  

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2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I don't understand how my statements concerning the definitions of hate groups and hate crimes are obfuscating.  Please enlighten me.

Goes to show how meaningless those 'upticks' really are.  

No need to enlighten you my good man. 

Yep ... so meaningless that you found a way to game them.

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3 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I personally did not game them.  Why is this number so important to you, foxbat?

 

So you are agreeing that the numbers were gamed?  The number's not all that important ... just interesting that someone obfuscating story content by going after the source would be so "comfortable" with sporting a less-than-honest accounting of "reputation" ... whether gamed personally or not.

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1 minute ago, foxbat said:

So you are agreeing that the numbers were gamed?  The number's not all that important ... just interesting that someone obfuscating story content by going after the source would be so "comfortable" with sporting a less-than-honest accounting of "reputation" ... whether gamed personally or not.

Yes, they were altered by a GID administrator.  Not at my personal request however.

And again, please elaborate on how I was "obfuscating story content by going after the source" when I was simply pointing out the bias behind the SPLC?

Funny how when somebody starts whining about or questioning the reputation +/- and you then ask why it is so important to them the answer is invariably "but it's not".

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yes, they were altered by a GID administrator.  Not at my personal request however.

And again, please elaborate on how I was "obfuscating story content by going after the source" when I was simply pointing out the bias behind the SPLC?

Funny how when somebody starts whining about or questioning the reputation +/- and you then ask why it is so important to them the answer is invariably "but it's not".

 

 

 

 

Please feel free to discuss the content.

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3 hours ago, foxbat said:

Just in yesterday evening ...

https://www.voanews.com/a/us-hate-groups-hit-record-number-last-year-amid-increased-violence/4797147.html

FTA:

American hate groups had a bumper year in 2018 as a surge in black and white nationalist groups lifted their number to a new record high, the Southern Poverty Law Center said in a report issued Wednesday.

The Alabama-based legal advocacy organization recorded 1,020 active hate groups last year, up 7 percent from 2017. The previous record tallied by SPLC was 1,018 in 2011 amid a white extremist backlash against the presidency of Barack Obama, the nation's first African-American president.

The increase was driven by growth in both black and white nationalist groups, the SPLC said. The number of white nationalist groups jumped from 100 to 148, while the number of black nationalist groups — typically anti-Semitic, anti-LGBTQ and anti-white — rose from 233 to 264.

...

Hate crimes have followed a similar trajectory in recent years. After falling for three consecutive years, attacks on blacks, Jews, Muslims and other minorities increased by 30 percent in the three-year period ending in 2017, according to the latest FBI data.

The uptrend continued into last year, with hate crimes in America's 30 largest cities surging by an additional 10 percent, according to the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino.

The majority of hate crimes are nonviolent, but some incidents were deadly. White supremacists in the U.S. and Canada killed at least 40 people last year, up from 17 people the year before, according to the SPLC's tally.

While most bias-motivated offenses are not committed by members of hate groups, the perpetrators of hate crimes draw inspiration from ideas put out by hate groups, said Heidi Beirich, director of the SPLC's Intelligence Project and author of the report.

 

[emphasis in last sentence of the article is mine]

You do realize, that if SPLC efforts did actually result in real improvements of pulling hate crimes and hate groups numbers lower to none, there would be no need for SPLC....... As the definition of hate crimes expands, so do the number of incidents......FY end 2017 - Around $432,000,000 in assets  operating on about $45,000,000 in revenue.  https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/103117_afs.pdf

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8 minutes ago, swordfish said:

As the definition of hate crimes expands, so do the number of incidents......FY end 2017 - Around $432,000,000 in assets  operating on about $45,000,000 in revenue.  https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/103117_afs.pdf

Bingo.  With the power/influence of the KKK pretty much eliminated (thank goodness) the SPLC had to find other groups to attack in order to justify it's continued existence, and of course bring in the cash.

 

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11 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Bingo.  With the power/influence of the KKK pretty much eliminated (thank goodness) the SPLC had to find other groups to attack in order to justify it's continued existence, and of course bring in the cash.

 

Kind of like with polio eradicated, doctor's had to find other sources to get paid right?  Or with one gang eradicated out of an area, the police had to find another one?  You make it sound like these various terror groups are made up. 

My guess is that victims of a synagogue bombing don't really care whether the bomb was from a neo-Nazi, a Klansman, or an ISIS-claimed vest-bomber.  Similarly, a person like James Byrd really would have cared less whether his attackers were Klan, Aryan Brotherhood, CKA, or any other dozen white-supremacist groups.

36 minutes ago, swordfish said:

You do realize, that if SPLC efforts did actually result in real improvements of pulling hate crimes and hate groups numbers lower to none, there would be no need for SPLC....... As the definition of hate crimes expands, so do the number of incidents......FY end 2017 - Around $432,000,000 in assets  operating on about $45,000,000 in revenue.  https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/103117_afs.pdf

Along those lines, anti-abortionists and politicians that cater to them really don't want Roe overturned because it'd be bad for the movement and some re-election campaigns. 

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20 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

I question whether some groups identified by the the SPLC as "hate groups" really are as such.

 

So if you question some, then I suspect that you don't question others that they identify as such?  If that's the case, then why all the rigamarole earlier?

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7 minutes ago, foxbat said:

So if you question some, then I suspect that you don't question others that they identify as such?  If that's the case, then why all the rigamarole earlier?

Depends on the group.  Do you take the "hate group" designation handed out by the SPLC as sacrosanct?  Why or why not?

 

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