N.I.C. 2023 - A New Season

[ASJCPUMA]

So, in a few weeks a new season for the NIC will begin.  Any newsworthy items.  Movement of kids?  Transfers?  What you expecting in this final year of the conference as we know it.  Couple of things I have seen.  Washington football had sent info out to kids at Clay I know, not sure if system wide.  They are promoting their new coach and outlook.  Not knowing how many kids will even go to Clay this yea, will they field a team.  A parent out near I live has said they will.  ANyone see of the scrimmages/-7 to have any thoughts

[npcougar15]

Not to much to go off of this off-season but I think the big school division will play out a lot like it did in 2022: Penn at the top, New Prairie pound for pound the best in the league, Elkhart challenging, then St. Joe, Marian, and Adams in any order. 

But here are my NIC questions:

What does Penn and specifically Elkhart have in the stables this upcoming season? The past few years Elkhart has had A LOT of hype but hasn't produced the way people thought they would. The Lion faithful seem a lot more quiet this off-season than normal. Low expectation? Just complacency after 2 mediocre seasons? Is it going to be more of the same from Penn this season as we've seen the past 4-5 years? 

Does Clay field a team this season? And if so; can they possibly be worse in 2023? Their closest game last year: 8-46 against a 1-9 Twin Lakes team. ouch

Who is going to be the best of the SB publics? Riley, Washington, or Adams?

St. Joe has been treading water for a while now. Do they have the horses to start making some noise like they did in the 2000s?

Marian falling back last year was expected, but I was surprised they went 2-8. Do they get back to their winning ways this season?

Jimtown has played for the sectional championship 6 of the last 7 years, do they finally start putting hardware in the trophy case again? I know they had Jimmy and Joes last year, did they graduate? 

 

 

 

[MarshallCounty]

I think Bremen will be a good 2A team, but don’t know if it will show record wise. I could easily see them losing to Jimtown, Riley, Glenn, LaVille, Triton, and TV. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 6/30/2023 at 2:26 PM, npcougar15 said:

What does Penn and specifically Elkhart have in the stables this upcoming season? The past few years Elkhart has had A LOT of hype but hasn't produced the way people thought they would. The Lion faithful seem a lot more quiet this off-season than normal. Low expectation? Just complacency after 2 mediocre seasons? Is it going to be more of the same from Penn this season as we've seen the past 4-5 years? 

Until Penn figures out how Offenses work, they will always be flirting with the specter of .500 football.  The team returns a large number of players from last season.  The defense was young(ish) and key players on O will be coming back.  There is a chance Penn starts the season 1-3.  With state champ Valpo returning a large core of their team from last season, which Valpo team shows up? Penn also has Mishawaka return to the schedule, I would say Mishawaka is trending upward since their move to the NLC and well Penn will not beat Cathedral in their final head to head matchup.  

If the NP game is out there, Penn will likely get beat.  They do not play well at the Cougars home.

On 6/30/2023 at 5:41 PM, MarshallCounty said:

I think Bremen will be a good 2A team, but don’t know if it will show record wise. I could easily see them losing to Jimtown, Riley, Glenn, LaVille, Triton, and TV. 

I am excited for the schools that will be making the new conference next year.  Best of luck to you all heading that direction!

Edited July 3, 2023 by BLACKGOLD2007

[MarshallCounty]

My nephew will be a sophomore at Bremen, he said Lance Moser will not be coming back for his senior year, decided to not play. That is a big loss in the running game. 

[npcougar15]

On 7/3/2023 at 5:31 PM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

There is a chance Penn starts the season 1-3. 

So is the coaching seat getting hot or is Yeoman essentially grandfathered in at this point? Don't think the times will ever allow Penn to be what they were in the 80s, 90s, 00s with open enrollment, the boom of Edwardsburg, kids just not joining sports like they did, etc. But Penn should be in a way better position than what they are in now. 

[Bobref]

11 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

So is the coaching seat getting hot or is Yeoman essentially grandfathered in at this point?

You don’t see any Penn people asking that question.

[cpg1970]

On 6/30/2023 at 4:41 PM, MarshallCounty said:

I think Bremen will be a good 2A team, but don’t know if it will show record wise. I could easily see them losing to Jimtown, Riley, Glenn, LaVille, Triton, and TV. 

Not sure about LaVille and Triton...LaVille returns some quality players but they only return one OL, lose 85% of their offensive scoring in Dewitt and Smith.  Having LaVille in week one might be beneficial for Bremen.  Don't get me wrong, LaVille will be a tough game for anyone, they just will have a lot of kids contributing for the first time at a lot of position at the varsity level.  They will get better as the year progresses for sure.  As for Triton, they will not being playing with one of the states leading rushers in Schue.  He decided to not play.

[MarshallCounty]

2 hours ago, cpg1970 said:

Not sure about LaVille and Triton...LaVille returns some quality players but they only return one OL, lose 85% of their offensive scoring in Dewitt and Smith.  Having LaVille in week one might be beneficial for Bremen.  Don't get me wrong, LaVille will be a tough game for anyone, they just will have a lot of kids contributing for the first time at a lot of position at the varsity level.  They will get better as the year progresses for sure.  As for Triton, they will not being playing with one of the states leading rushers in Schue.  He decided to not play.

What is up with these kids choosing not to play? 

[npcougar15]

20 hours ago, cpg1970 said:

As for Triton, they will not being playing with one of the states leading rushers in Schue.  He decided to not play.

Wow that is a big time lost for Triton. Is odd that key cogs are deciding not to play football anymore. 

[PDB26]

On 7/5/2023 at 8:29 PM, npcougar15 said:

So is the coaching seat getting hot or is Yeoman essentially grandfathered in at this point?

On 7/6/2023 at 8:24 AM, Bobref said:

You don’t see any Penn people asking that question.

I think Cory is rightfully ensconced in his position with 194 wins in 20 seasons. It's a little hard to believe, but he's just now about the age Gees was when he hung it up. That doesn't mean Penn couldn't--or shouldn't--be performing better against its peers, nor does it mean that Penn has had any business losing games to Marian or, notwithstanding their substantial success, New Prairie.

Consider: Penn and Ben Davis played 17 times between 1991 and 2010 in both the regular season and state finals, (I'm excluding BD's 2017 63-14 state final victory over Penn only because the regular season series ended with the 2010 game) and Ben Davis won 13, scored 361 points, and won by three or more touchdowns on four occasions while Penn won 4, scored 241 points, and never won by more than 16 points (that 16 felt like a lot). Cory and Gees each managed two wins against the Giants. 

I could run this same process for Penn's numerous playoff encounters with Carmel and Snider through the years, or its history with Valpo. But I think the run with the Giants helps to frame Penn's success during that period to some degree. 

Things have changed substantially since those years, but I'm unconvinced that either Indiana's open enrollment or a school district in Michigan with a district-wide enrollment of 2,624 students has anything to do with Penn's recent struggles/decline or inability to demonstrate a level of dominance over northern programs on par with its performances in the late 80s, 90s, 00s, and early 10s. The explanations for decline are more likely Penn's failure to bring on a strength coach to start a department wide strength program and the paucity of peer competition in the NIC vis a vis the corresponding availability of peer or near peer competition for programs in places like the Region, Fort Wayne, and Indianapolis than anything like the right guys aren't coming out for ball anymore.

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, PDB26 said:

The explanations for decline are more likely Penn's failure to bring on a strength coach to start a department wide strength program and the paucity of peer competition in the NIC vis a vis the corresponding availability of peer or near peer competition for programs in places like the Region, Fort Wayne, and Indianapolis than anything like the right guys aren't coming out for ball anymore.

Very insightful post and, IMO, right on the money.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 7/6/2023 at 8:24 AM, Bobref said:

You don’t see any Penn people asking that question.

To be honest Bobref, not many of the old Penn posters don't engage this site anymore. Among the falling number of fans that attend the games regularly there is unrest with the coaching overall. The defense has been fine, in the past five years it seems the D is lacking, but they cannot get a break, because the O was three and out all the time. The offensive side of the ball needs to be examined.  (this past season was slightly different)

 I know this is arm chair quarterbacking, but when Penn was running trap blocking schemes and quick hitting runs we were a much more threatening Offense. We controlled games just by the dominance of the Offensive line. In the past five years our lateral running game ends in the backfield, we looked strongest running down hill between the tackles.

Penn was dominant over the teams in the Northern part of our state because we out executed other teams, not because we were more talented.  

[PDB26]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:28 PM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

when Penn was running trap blocking schemes and quick hitting runs we were a much more threatening Offense.

Agreed. The change in blocking scheme has been unfortunate. 

[US31]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:28 PM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

To be honest Bobref, not many of the old Penn posters don't engage this site anymore. Among the falling number of fans that attend the games regularly there is unrest with the coaching overall. The defense has been fine, in the past five years it seems the D is lacking, but they cannot get a break, because the O was three and out all the time. The offensive side of the ball needs to be examined.  (this past season was slightly different)

 I know this is arm chair quarterbacking, but when Penn was running trap blocking schemes and quick hitting runs we were a much more threatening Offense. We controlled games just by the dominance of the Offensive line. In the past five years our lateral running game ends in the backfield, we looked strongest running down hill between the tackles.

Penn was dominant over the teams in the Northern part of our state because we out executed other teams, not because we were more talented.  

And you were enormous enrollment wise compared to most other schools in the state (save some MIC schools).

Now you fit right in the middle of some HCC schools and are much smaller than Carmel, BD.  Other “North” schools have closed the gap considerably

[Whiting89]

I remember the good ole days in the 90s on the region we used to get the south bend news and it seemed like Penn and Jimtown were powerhouses with massive rosters 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Whiting89 said:

I remember the good ole days in the 90s on the region we used to get the south bend news and it seemed like Penn and Jimtown were powerhouses with massive rosters 

I worked a lot of games for those two schools. They were my favorite places to work for many reasons. Just two great, classy programs.

[PDB26]

On 7/8/2023 at 2:28 PM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Penn was dominant over the teams in the Northern part of our state because we out executed other teams, not because we were more talented. 

On 7/18/2023 at 9:41 AM, US31 said:

And you were enormous enrollment wise compared to most other schools in the state (save some MIC schools).

Now you fit right in the middle of some HCC schools and are much smaller than Carmel, BD.  Other “North” schools have closed the gap considerably

Framing success as a function of Penn's enrollment relative to the state misses the mark. Further, Penn's recent struggles aren't based in other schools closing an enrollment gap.

Could we seriously say that something like, I can't imagine how much more soundly Penn would have been beaten by Carroll in the sectional if Penn had less than the 1000 student advantage they had then?  The 1000 student advantage that HSE had over Carroll wasn't a factor in their game either.

Since you mention them, sure, the HCC schools have grown into large schools of relative size––to their benefit––but not to Penn's detriment. Penn's program would certainly be sharper if more northern schools in Penn's sphere had grown like the HCC schools.

[MarshallCounty]

On 7/18/2023 at 4:57 PM, Whiting89 said:

I remember the good ole days in the 90s on the region we used to get the south bend news and it seemed like Penn and Jimtown were powerhouses with massive rosters 

It’s not a Penn or Jimtown problem as much as it is a northern problem, Hobart to Snider and everyone in between. The Indy metro area is light years ahead of us all. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 7/19/2023 at 11:31 AM, PDB26 said:

Framing success as a function of Penn's enrollment relative to the state misses the mark. Further, Penn's recent struggles aren't based in other schools closing an enrollment gap.

Could we seriously say that something like, I can't imagine how much more soundly Penn would have been beaten by Carroll in the sectional if Penn had less than the 1000 student advantage they had then?  The 1000 student advantage that HSE had over Carroll wasn't a factor in their game either.

Since you mention them, sure, the HCC schools have grown into large schools of relative size––to their benefit––but not to Penn's detriment. Penn's program would certainly be sharper if more northern schools in Penn's sphere had grown like the HCC schools.

Penn got beat because they were not prepared properly by the coaching staff. That has been the biggest issue in the past 5/6 seasons. 

In regards to semi state/state games Penn is so far behind on talent and coaching the other team can predict what we are going to do before we snap the ball. It is so frustrating

[BTF]

6 hours ago, MarshallCounty said:

It’s not a Penn or Jimtown problem as much as it is a northern problem, Hobart to Snider and everyone in between. The Indy metro area is light years ahead of us all. 

There was a time when Indy metro would have been mercy ruled by the likes of Penn, Snider, Ben Davis, Carmel, and Warren Central. Balance of power has made a major shift and now it's Indy metro doing the dominating with programs like Carroll heading down that same path.

Snider has slowly dropped from 2200 students to 1800 over the course of three decades while the percentage of free lunch students continue to rise. That being said, they're still a strong program with one of the better coaching staffs in the state. The 5-5 covid year was really they're only down season. Add to that the rise of Carroll and less is being said about the Panthers. They're still on solid footing and look for them to compete with Valpo and North Side for the right to represent the North at Lucas. 

[MarkCalaway]

6 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Penn got beat because they were not prepared properly by the coaching staff. That has been the biggest issue in the past 5/6 seasons. 

In regards to semi state/state games Penn is so far behind on talent and coaching the other team can predict what we are going to do before we snap the ball. It is so frustrating

What would you do differently if you were the head coach?

[MarshallCounty]

12 hours ago, BTF said:

There was a time when Indy metro would have been mercy ruled by the likes of Penn, Snider, Ben Davis, Carmel, and Warren Central. Balance of power has made a major shift and now it's Indy metro doing the dominating with programs like Carroll heading down that same path.

Snider has slowly dropped from 2200 students to 1800 over the course of three decades while the percentage of free lunch students continue to rise. That being said, they're still a strong program with one of the better coaching staffs in the state. The 5-5 covid year was really they're only down season. Add to that the rise of Carroll and less is being said about the Panthers. They're still on solid footing and look for them to compete with Valpo and North Side for the right to represent the North at Lucas. 

Agreed on Snider, but once they get to Indy… the metro schools are a different level. I don’t care who the north sends down, if they face a Indy area team, it’s like showing up to a gun fight with a knife. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

12 hours ago, MarkCalaway said:

What would you do differently if you were the head coach?

Penn cannot run laterally, they try to run zone plays and get blown up in the back field. I would implement trap schemes and run the ball down hill. Penn dominated teams locally and for a stretch in the DAC by running right at other teams. 

When I was playing we told the defenses locally where we were going with the ball, and still ran it down their throat. 

When you go left and right in the back field and your name is not Sanders, it typically doesn't end well. Penn can run trap schemes from different formations and even their current set of formations. They just choose not to. 

The only thing I would consider differently on D is maybe going to a 3-4. 

Why is it that the 6th largest school that should have a good selection of athletic young men cannot produce on offense? Coaching and play calling. I've watched the 3A title games and those teams are throwing for 300-400 yards...why is that not possible at Penn High School? We literally waisted Powlus's four years because we couldn't adapt an offense that would help the young man thrive. 

[BTF]

2 hours ago, MarshallCounty said:

Agreed on Snider, but once they get to Indy… the metro schools are a different level. I don’t care who the north sends down, if they face a Indy area team, it’s like showing up to a gun fight with a knife. 

Agree, that's the difference between now and 10 years ago..............definitely 20 & 30 years ago.  Central Indiana gets stronger year after year. Too many resources for their counterparts to compete with.