foxbat

@LilUrb It's been a while! Good to see you back. Forget the password to your old GID account?

Have not yet found a corresponding set of data for 2024-2025, but here's the info for 2023-2024 in terms of candidates and winners. From the data points below, a couple things pop out: In some areas/classes, it may be possible that only one or two teams appeared to represent the entire state of 300+ teams and, at least 32 teams in class. It seems less likely that the advantages of p/p won the award vs. the mere fact that p/p schools possibly applied or were nominated at a higher rate. For example, in 1A, out of 64 plus teams, less than 10% of the schools applied or were nominated and half of those were p/p. In 2A, out of some 63 teams, a little more than 3% applied or were nominated ... i.e., 2 teams ... and one was p/p. In 5A, only a single team applied. Note that 3A had no p/p schools that applied or were nominated. As you dig into the details further, it appears that nominations did not all necessarily adhere to / fit the guidelines in the way that one might expect at quick review of the guidelines and only focusing on the winners. Not to disparage, but two of the six teams in the 1A candidates, both public schools, had records of 6-4 and 4-6. One of the p/p schools had a record of 5-4 and all of their wins came over teams with losing seasons. Frankly, it came down to three teams: one with a 13-0 record, one with a 12-1 record, and one with an 8-3 record. The 12-1 record team won the award. Yes, successful season is in the eye of the beholder and there can be many measures, but unless you are talking about extreme adversity, it's hard to say that a 4-6 or even a 6-4 team had a more successful season than a 13-0, 12-1, or even an 8-3 team. In 2A, you have an 8-2 team that didn't make it out of the first sectional game vs. a 7-4 team that made it to the second round of sectionals. Roughly a coin-flip, out of two teams, for "successful season." Odd man out, in 4A was Brebeuf. 6-5 hardly seems successful, until you realize they were playing up a class and made it to third round of sectionals. The other teams? 6-5, made it to second round of sectionals. 12-3, made it to state. 9-4, made it to regionals. 7-4, made it to regionals. In 4A, at first blush, you'd probably say 12-3 and made it to state was successful; and I would certainly not disagree. If you are digging further and, without seeing their packet, I would expect it would definitely mention that they are playing up a class. Given that, it's probably a dead-heat with the other three teams. 6a ... did I mention that the team that won it is playing up two classes and hasn't played in its enrollment class in over a decade? 8-4 and made it to a regional ... two classes up. The other teams? 13-1 and made it to state. 11-2 and made it to semi-state. Playing two classes up, and again, I didn't see the application packet, and being out of enrollment class for a decade should be in that packet. That makes an impression on detatched judges most likely ... right, wrong, or otherwise. In essence, the idea of conspiracy theory diminishes somewhat when you get the data points, at east from last year's contest. If anyone finds this year's finalists, I'd be happy to take a look. Here's the link for the info below: https://rrsn.com/indiana-team-national-finalists-for-the-2023-24-nff-national-hs-academic-excellence/ The Indiana Football Coaches Association congratulates our Indiana Team National Finalists for the 2023-24 NFF National HS Academic Excellence Award presented by @RoseBowlLegacy 1A Greenwood Christian Indianapolis Lutheran Park Tudor Covington West Central Fountain Central 2A Heritage Christian Alexandria 3A Hamilton Heights West Lafayette Danville Fairfield 4A Columbia City Northwood Evansville Reitz Memorial Indianapolis Brebeuf Martinsville 5A Lafayette Harrison 6A Indianapolis Cathedral Westfield Crown Point ——————————————– The following are State Champions and are eligible to be a National Champion: 1A – Indianapolis Park Tudor 2A – Heritage Christian 3A – West Lafayette 4A – Indianapolis Brebeuf Jesuit Preparatory 5A – Lafayette William Henry Harrison 6A – Indianapolis Cathedral

Mishawaka Marian tried to move from 1A to 3A back in the 70s, but the IHSAA only let them bump up one class on their own in the year they applied for a two-class bump. Scecina was 2A and remained in 2A despite having 1A enrollment for a while, but eventually moved down to 1A before being SF'd into 2A and then getting enough enrollment to remain in 2A. I think Mishawaka also did something similar to Scecina [edit: I think it was around 2015/2016] in that they were in 5A, had a chance to move down to 4A by enrollment, and elected to remain in 5A at the time.

It's like the folks you catch with academic misconduct. They put more effort into cheating, working to not get caught, and then working to provide denial when they get caught, that if they'd just expended the same energy on the assignment, they would have gotten an A.

Thanks for posting this. It helps to remind us that, while the vast majority of these kids will not go on to play football at a higher level, they are certainly poised to be good members of the community at higher levels.

Does this mean that he's taken a position somewhere in Region 4 or can he, at least, still retain that VP on the IFCA state board without taking the reigns somewhere?

Doesn't sound like those options are all that different.

Below you can see the crowd exiting Rodney's favorite store, Pitchforks and Torches, after getting some great Black Friday deals.

Does provide the advantage of being in the hallways throughout the day and feeling the pulse daily. Sometimes can find some gems walking the halls that don't initially show up for the first seasonal practices.

Expecting an audit?

Some lay coaches can make it work, but most need another job if they don't have the teacher job or something else in the building to feed the family and keep the lights on. The other issue that I've heard some folks also talk about is, when you have a coach full-time in the classrooms and on the field, that "in-building" presence for building the team is beneficial to the program.

How do you get clowning out of a factual statement? He always looked at GID as a monetized business, but that's not really its business model. Anyone who was around back when Tim Adams was running it realized that very quickly. It's still being run by volunteers in the same vein. It's a different business model.

I think that's the issue that the guy with the Facebook site didn't quite grasp.

Need to get back to the old days where guys would bet booster memberships on the state championships. Everyone wins even if their team didn't.

The one about vouchers? I'm not sure if it was asked with regard to why they don't in general or why they don't because they are receiving vouchers. In the latter case, it's because while the legislature will tell you it's about school choice, it's at best, about limited school choice. I think it'd be a great idea to say that, if you receive state money, you have to provide the same services that the state schools do. Unfortunately, the legislature did not put that provision on vouchers ... instead opting to allow the "poorest of the poor" ... e.g., a household of four with an AGI of $230,880 ... to take advantage of them. If you are sensing some sarcasm here about the "poorest of the poor," then I'm glad it's not lost as I'm not a fan of vouchers; especially in their current incarnation in Indiana. One the other hand, if your question was more generic as to why special ed isn't at the schools, I think it's somewhat of a misnomer as there are p/p schools with special ed level students, but not necessarily with special ed programs. And certainly not where they are servicing the full range of special ed. This is particularly true in smaller p/p schools. The funds aren't there for smaller of numbers of special ed kids. I know of a situation where there was a kid at a Catholic school and his younger sister, who eventually be attending, had a feeding tube. The school did not have the ability to be able to have resources for that specific instance, so the younger sister ended up going to the public school where her brother ended up joining her a couple of years later.

Numbers used in this analysis are based on 2022 unless noted. That 60-student drop, cost the school roughly $840,000, assuming that they all came from the Deanery, in just a single year. Logically, that's just the start. A kid that you would deny in their freshman year, for whatever reason, likely doesn't apply again in his sophomore year or junior year or senior year. So any of those freshman that wouldn't be admitted would be around $64,000 lost over a four-year span. If only half of the kids that were "kept out" were freshman, you're talking about a loss of just under $2 million over a four-year period. All total, assuming you cut 60 and 30 were in the freshman admittance, you're talking about $2,280,000 for a single year cut of 60 students plus ongoing fallout. For a 1A title in football? I'm not seeing it. Mind you that this school won a 2A baseball title in the previous year and had a 2A boys soccer team that's won a dozen or so 2A sectionals in a row. Then there's an even BIGGER issue. Providence draws 299 of its 328, over 90%, from some 13 of its parishes. How long do you think Catholic schools last when they are keeping their own parishioners from attending? If Providence spent even a couple of years artificially blocking parishioners from entering, they would likely not be seeing an uptick as they would have poisoned their own well.

Some of these are football, but 8-man like TPC, Indiana Deaf, RCA, Dugger Union.

It's too dissimilar between a school and a school. As @wabashalwaysfights pointed out with Crawfordsville, Benton Central, and West Lafayette. Those were three 3A schools roughly 30-40 minutes on either side of West Lafayette and their student body make-ups had different DNAs.

So what you are saying is that faith without works is a dead tourney season?

What about Concordia Lutheran's 623 kids? Asking for a friend as I/he have never heard a p/p complaint with the words "Concordia Lutheran" in it. Wonder if it's just coincidence tied to 2-8, 0-10, 4-7, and 2-8 ... Concordia's season record for the past four seasons ... and the fact that they haven't made it out of sectionals for the last four years all courtesy of public school kids including one with what must been an amazingly-talented 300 570 Spartans Cadets holding the Hot Gates against onslaught of the divinely-endowed 623 Persians Lutherans. Incidentally, to save the time of lookups, Concordia, over 31 seasons: Only six seasons escaping a sectional 3 sectionals ... one courtesy of a short COVID sectional 2 regionals 1 state title 25 non-winning seasons ... losing or tied 24 seasons ended by public school opponents from 15 different programs Only one back-to-back season pairing where they got out of a sectional, 2019 and 2020, both resulting in terminal sectional wins The one state title in 2016 was flanked on either side by two seasons where they never made it out of sectionals and included three losing seasons out of the four games, the fourth was a 7-5 season. Interesting comparison ... West Lafayette over the same timeframe: 10 seasons escaping a sectional 4 sectionals 3 regionals 1 semi-state 2 state titles 10 non-winning seasons ... losing or tied Three back-to-back or more season pairing where they got out of a sectional including a four-year streak resulting in a state title, semi-state, and two sectionals and another three-year streak that resulted in a regional, sectional, and state title.

My point had nothing to do with public vs. private and size. What I was noting is that, even in a situation where public vs. private isn't the issue, there will still be complaints about "advantages." As noted in Texas, while you say you don't think size is an issue, I can tell you for the better part of a decade plus while I was down there, there was always a public-school debate about the large north Dallas districts that never split into multiple high schools. Similarly, in the Louisiana football environment there's plenty of grousing that goes on in the private ranks as well even though public and private are split. In essence, doesn't really matter whether there are multipliers, success factors, separate tourneys, there will always be reason to complain.

I would suspect that, if this happened, there would then be a constant drumbeat of inequities between public schools. In Texas, even though they have a public and private tourney, you still hear the grumblings every year about public schools where "they get the entire town" vs. other places where town's talent is "carved up" across schools. I remember back in the day, when I was in the Texas football scene in the 70s, Dallas basically had some massive districts that had never split into multiple schools like Plano, Richardson, Highland Park, and the emerging Mesquite district which tended to run roughshod over the Houston schools as the post-season progressed. At the time I was in Houston, our district has split into three 6A equivalent schools. There was no way to compete with Dallas-area monster district that had the same number of students in a single district except ever once in a while. There was ALWAYS grumbling in the post season amongst the public schools. In Louisiana, the have segregated football, in more ways than one, but separate public and private/parochial leagues. There's an underlying understanding/discussion about the differences between the "rich, white academy public schools" and some of the minority-heavy parochial schools which mirror the same type of arguments that we hear here in Indiana about public vs. private. There the grumbling is within the private schools.

Providence will likely be bumped next season as all they need is a regional. Mater Dei bumped up via SF equivalency, but then ended up at 3A enrollment the same year. Same kind of thing that happened with Scecina after 2012 season, Linton after the 2016 season, and now AC after the 2023 season.

The Knoys are associated with Harrison nowadays. Didn't Schornstein go on to bigger and better things with Delta House?

Would have been some real barn burners! IMO, that 2011 semi-state game was the state championship game that year.