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Frozen Tundra

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Posts posted by Frozen Tundra

    Hoosier Hills Conference

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    This week’s games (week 10 - sectional quarterfinals):

     

    Edgewood (2-7) at Jennings County (4-5)

    BNL (6-3) at Evansville Harrison (1-8)

     

    Notes

    -This will be the first time ever Jennings County and Edgewood have played.

    -This will be the fourth meeting ever between BNL and Evansville Harrison. Ironically, every game has been in the first round of sectionals. Harrison won at home in 1990, BNL won at home in 1991, and Harrison won at home in 1993. The road team has always lost so hopefully BNL bucks that trend.

    Frozen Tundra’s Fictional Class 3A Tourney (with 64 teams)

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    2 hours ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

    It seems like 3A just has to have a super loaded sectional somewhere in the North no matter who is in the class. Sectional 26 would have been loaded with good teams with the best one cruising to the state championship.

    I’ll just go ahead and say it. Northern Indiana has better depth than southern Indiana when it comes to football. That’s not to say southern Indiana doesn’t have good teams but we don’t have as many of them. For whatever reason, it’s most evident at the 3A level (real or hypothetical) right now.

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1

    Post Season FB Seeding

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

    Is it safe to say all individual sports (wrestling, track, swimming, XC) are seeded but team sports are not? 

    It’s probably the “do it for one, do it for all” that is preventing it. 

    But no other sport has 6 classes either 

    I’m not aware of any sport seeding the teams/participants except for wrestling. Unless something has changed since my high school days in the mid-2000s, I was on the track team and we never had seeding for any meets (regular season or postseason).

    What If 1A Had 32 Teams Instead of 5A?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    5 hours ago, US31 said:

    I’m not sure you were referencing my post…but just in case, and  to be clear what I have said before:

    I’m suggesting 1A and 6A should be 32 teams….divide the rest up evenly.  
     

    FURTHER….rolling 3-4 year SF…and no P/P in 1A.  The No p/p in a 32 school 1A go hand in glove…no point in doing one without the other.  This prevents two P/P from yo-young up and down in and out of the now smallest 1A.  Not sure this would happen, but prevents it from occurring.

    Wasn’t referencing anyone’s post in particular. The conversation steering away to the idea of a 32 team 1A had me intrigued and I wanted to see what that would look like. Now we know.

    As far as dividing up 2A through 5A evenly then that would mean three of the classifications would have 62 teams and one would have 61 teams. Wouldn’t bother me if that happened. I just based this hypothetical scenario as closely as possible to the reality of how everything is currently set up. I wanted the numbers to look similar and not look radically different.

    5 hours ago, Titan32 said:

    Really appreciate all the work here.  Unfortunately it still doesn’t solve the problem of enrollment failing miserably as a classification mechanism for the extremely well coached privates.

    I just based this hypothetical on the current parameters we already have in place. The only change I made was the number of teams in 1A and 5A. I agree with your point to an extent but there are some privates who stink and I wouldn’t want to unfairly disadvantage them. Just like no two public schools are created equal, no two private schools are created equal. See Hammond Noll for instance and compare them to Chatard. Like night and day.

     

    4 hours ago, WWFan said:

    Is all this just because you guys think 5A sucks and don't care about 1A? Not like it's been the teams boarderlining 2A have been the ones dominating class A, outside of Linton, who only got to win 1 and have remained up ever since

    I just did this because I thought it’d be fun to look at. While I would prefer a 32 team 1A and a 63/64 team 5A (because I think there’s a bigger discrepancy in 1A between the haves and have-nots), I’m also not going to be upset if things don’t change.

    2023 Conference Indiana (what's left of it)

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    1 hour ago, MuleDriver said:

    Bloomington South @ Bloomington North - Even tho bhsn defeated bhss regular season a lot of people don't know what a disaster our center was with all the lost yardage with bad snaps and delays in plays caused by bad snaps. I suspect bhss is the better team now that the center has more experience. could be bhsn just is their year and something odd and strange will lead them to a W , like what happened in week 4.  

     

     

    I completely agree with this and I have no ties to either school. South has been more impressive to me this year than North. I think South will beat them by 10+ points.

    • Like 2

    What If 1A Had 32 Teams Instead of 5A?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Just a dad said:

    So I will take on the project (for fun) of seeding all of the teams according to their current calpreps overall state ranking. I’ll then post the hypothetical brackets according to @Frozen Tundra’s work from above. If I feel extra goofy I’ll run the games through their matchup predictor and post results for each round of the playoffs. Sectionals on Monday, Regionals on Tuesday, semi state on Wed and State on Thursday. I should have the seeded brackets up tonight 

    This will be interesting

    What If 1A Had 32 Teams Instead of 5A?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    22 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

    Also, let me be the first to say what a great job you did with this!!!👍

    Guess I am the second to say it…

    I appreciate it but, like I said, I wasn’t trying to get a pat on the back. This was a lot of fun for me to research. My only regret is that I couldn’t complete it quicker. Being a husband and a dad to two little girls makes it impossible to sit and do it all within a day or two like I would’ve been able to do a decade ago.

    • Thanks 1

    What If 1A Had 32 Teams Instead of 5A?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    Just now, Komets2727 said:

    Since you read the sectional thread then you know I am all in favor of this concept. It baffles me how incompetent the IHSAA really is that they haven’t done this already. The smallest schools and the largest schools should be the smaller class tournaments, 32 teams each. 

    I completely agree. I have to think the IHSAA looked into a 32 team 1A scenario before going with a 32 team 5A instead. If that’s the case, I’m guessing they saw how big of a gap there’d be between the biggest and potentially smallest 5A teams and thought, “1,000 students is too much.” Either that or they didn’t like how weak 1A looked. I don’t know. Nevertheless, I’m with you. Needs to be a 32 team 1A.

    • Thanks 1

    What If 1A Had 32 Teams Instead of 5A?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    1 minute ago, kdets89 said:

    I appreciate the amount of work that went into this, and I agree with this in concept.

    Let me be the first to suggest:  Move Lutheran out of this version of 1A.

    Yeah I cringed when I saw they’d be a part of a 32 team 1A. It would be the most lopsided class of the six. I would hope the team, coaches, and school would recognize this and play up as a goodwill gesture rather than having to be moved up due to the success factor. 

    What If 1A Had 32 Teams Instead of 5A?

    in The Indiana High School Football Forum

    Posted

    Earlier in the week, @Bobref started a thread titled "Sectional Draw 2023" and the thread kind of went a couple directions away from the intended purpose. One of those directions pertained to the notion that 6A and 1A should be the classifications with 32 teams rather than 6A and 5A. This topic interested me, and I decided to take a deep dive researching it. It took me about ten hours total over the course of several days to compile. I'm not saying this to get a pat on the back, but to help you understand I didn't just breeze through it without any deep thought or research.

    Nevertheless, for this particular scenario, I compiled lists for 1A through 5A using the most recent enrollment numbers the IHSAA released (which was two years ago). I excluded 6A since it obviously wouldn't be affected by the change. In compiling the classification lists, the goal was to base it off this specific year's tournament in regard to the Fort Wayne Dwenger situation and the teams playing up due to the success factor. The 1A through 5A breakdown for this year's tournament is the following:

    5A - 31 teams

    4A - 64 teams

    3A - 64 teams

    2A - 62 teams

    1A - 58 teams

    Total - 279 teams

     

    I wanted to keep these numbers as similar as possible. This meant that 5A would have 63 teams rather than 64 as a result of the IHSAA moving FW Dwenger down in the middle of the classification period. Therefore, these were the classification numbers I came up with:

    5A - 63 teams

    4A - 64 teams

    3A - 64 teams

    2A - 56 teams

    1A - 32 teams

    Total - 279 teams

     

    After compiling lists for the classifications, I wanted to look at the ranges for each classification from the largest school to the smallest school. See below.

    5A (63 teams)

    Largest School: Harrison (WL) - 2,079 students

    Smallest School: New Haven - 1,064 students

    4A (64 teams)

    Largest School: Kankakee Valley - 1,062 students

    Smallest School (aside from the success factor team): Bellmont - 641 students

    Success Factor Team: Evansville Memorial - 556 students

    3A (64 teams)

    Largest School: John Glenn - 638 students

    Smallest Schools: North Putnam and Tell City - 444 students

    2A (56 teams)

    Largest School: Indianapolis Scecina - 439 students

    Smallest School: Covington - 294 students

    Success Factor Team: Lafayette Central Catholic - 296 students

    1A (32 teams)

    Largest School: Fremont - 291 students

    Smallest School: Attica - 170 students

     

    Here are the ranges from the scenario above compared to the current numbers (excluding success factor teams):

    5A: 1,064 - 2,079 (currently 1,513 - 2,079)

    4A: 641 - 1,062 (currently 795 - 1,510)

    3A: 444 - 638 (currently 511 - 790)

    2A: 294 - 439 (currently 379 - 510)

    1A: 170 - 291 (currently 170 - 378)

     

    Instead of just compiling a list of classifications given the scenario, I wanted to get the full scope of what this could look like as it pertains to sectional assignments. As a result, I put together classification maps and spent a ton of time trying to come up with sectional assignments that limit travel time as best as possible while also ensuring schools from the same school district aren't split up. I cannot stress enough how hard I tried to keep travel times down.  I flirted with many different scenarios by looking at the travel times on Google Maps but some long trips just couldn't be helped. It's important to note I'm only including these sectional assignments to give you an idea of how 1A through 5A could look given the hypothetical 32 team 1A scenario. I'm not necessarily saying this is how they should look. See the link below to view the classification/sectional assignment maps.

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1SqvN_8IxXWiJQxvs4E0RSxadUGh_f9k&usp=sharing

     

    Here are the sectional assignments I came up with.

    5A (63)

    Sectional 9 (8): East Chicago Central, Gary West, Hammond Central, Hammond Morton, Harrison (WL), Lowell, McCutcheon, Munster

    Sectional 10 (8): Chesterton, Hobart, LaPorte, Merrillville, Michigan City, Mishawaka, South Bend Adams, Valparaiso

    Sectional 11 (8): Columbia City, Concord, Goshen, Huntington North, Kokomo, Logansport, Northridge, Plymouth

    Sectional 12 (7): DeKalb, Fort Wayne North, Fort Wayne Snider, Fort Wayne South, Fort Wayne Wayne, Muncie Central, New Haven

    Sectional 13 (8): Anderson, Greenfield-Central, Indianapolis Attucks, Indianapolis Roncalli, Mt. Vernon (Fortville), New Palestine, Pendleton Heights, Richmond

    Sectional 14 (8): Columbus East, East Central, Franklin, Greenwood, Jennings County, Seymour, Shelbyville, Whiteland

    Sectional 15 (8): Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Decatur Central, Martinsville, Mooresville, Plainfield, Terre Haute North, Terre Haute South

    Sectional 16 (8): Bedford North Lawrence, Castle, Evansville Central, Evansville Harrison, Evansville North, Evansville Reitz, Floyd Central, New Albany


    4A (64)

    Sectional 17 (8): Hanover Central, Highland, Kankakee Valley, New Prairie, South Bend Clay, South Bend Riley, South Bend St. Joseph, South Bend Washington

    Sectional 18 (8): Angola, Culver Academy, East Noble, Leo, Mishawaka Marian, NorthWood, Wawasee, West Noble

    Sectional 19 (8): Bellmont, Delta, Fort Wayne Dwenger, Jay County, Marion, Mississinewa, Norwell, Yorktown

    Sectional 20 (8): Frankfort, Guerin Catholic, Hamilton Heights, Lebanon, Peru, Twin Lakes, Western, West Lafayette

    Sectional 21 (8): Brebeuf Jesuit, Crawfordsville, Danville, Edgewood, Indianapolis Shortridge, Indianapolis Washington, Northview, Owen Valley

    Sectional 22 (8): Batesville, Beech Grove, Connersville, Franklin County, Greensburg, Indianapolis Chatard, New Castle, Rushville

    Sectional 23 (8): Charlestown, Corydon Central, Lawrenceburg, Madison, North Harrison, Scottsburg, Silver Creek, South Dearborn

    Sectional 24 (8): Boonville, Evansville Bosse, Evansville Memorial, Gibson Southern, Jasper, Mt. Vernon (Posey), Vincennes Lincoln, Washington

     

    3A (64)

    Sectional 25 (8): Benton Central, Boone Grove, Calumet, Griffith, Hammond Noll, Rensselaer Central, River Forest, Whiting

    Sectional 26 (8): Bremen, Fairfield, Jimtown, John Glenn, Knox, Lakeland, Rochester, Tippecanoe Valley

    Sectional 27 (8): Bluffton, Fort Wayne Concordia, Fort Wayne Luers, Garrett, Heritage, Manchester, Wabash, Woodlan

    Sectional 28 (8): Alexandria-Monroe, Blackford, Eastbrook, Eastern (Greentown), Maconaquah, Northwestern, Oak Hill, Tipton

    Sectional 29 (8): Greencastle, North Montgomery, North Putnam, Southmont, South Vermillion, Tri-West, Western Boone, West Vigo

    Sectional 30 (8): Centerville, Christel House Manual, Frankton, Heritage Christian, Indianapolis Ritter, Lapel, Purdue Polytechnic, Speedway

    Sectional 31 (8): Brown County, Brownstown Central, Cascade, Indian Creek, Mitchell, Monrovia, Salem, Triton Central

    Sectional 32 (8): Evansville Mater Dei, Heritage Hills, North Posey, Pike Central, Princeton, Southridge, Sullivan, Tell City

     

    2A (56)

    Sectional 33 (8): Andrean, Lake Station, LaVille, North Judson, North Newton, South Central (Union Mills), Wheeler, Winamac

    Sectional 34 (7): Adams Central, Central Noble, Churubusco, Eastside, Prairie Heights, South Adams, Whitko

    Sectional 35 (8): Carroll (Flora), Clinton Prairie, Covington, Delphi, Lafayette Central Catholic, Lewis Cass, Pioneer, Seeger

    Sectional 36 (6): Elwood, Madison-Grant, Monroe Central, Sheridan, Taylor, Winchester

    Sectional 37 (6): Covenant Christian, Eastern Hancock, Indianapolis Scecina, Knightstown, Park Tudor, Shenandoah

    Sectional 38 (6): Hagerstown, Milan, North Decatur, Northeastern, Switzerland County, Union County

    Sectional 39 (7): Cloverdale, Eastern Greene, Linton-Stockton, North Knox, Parke Heritage, Riverton Parke, South Putnam

    Sectional 40 (8): Clarksville, Crawford County, Eastern (Pekin), Forest Park, Paoli, Perry Central, Providence, South Spencer


    1A (32)

    Sectional 41 (4): Bowman Academy, Frontier, South Newton, Tri-County

    Sectional 42 (4): Culver, North White, Triton, West Central

    Sectional 43 (4): Caston, Clinton Central, North Miami, Tri-Central

    Sectional 44 (4): Fremont, Northfield, Southern Wells, Southwood

    Sectional 45 (4): Cambridge City Lincoln, Tri, Union City, Wes-Del

    Sectional 46 (4): Edinburgh, Indianapolis Lutheran, Indianapolis Tindley, South Decatur

    Sectional 47 (4): Attica, Fountain Central, North Central (Farmersburg), North Vermillion

    Sectional 48 (4): North Daviess, Springs Valley, Tecumseh, West Washington

     

    I hope you all find this information as interesting as I did. Does this information change your original opinion? Should 5A remain at 32 teams or should 1A have 32 teams instead? Feel free to provide your thoughts and share any ideas you have.

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