2024 6A Who can win it all?

[Rodney]

3 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Did this get him banned from the thread? This is unnecessary. I got banned from a thread because I got heated about politics...calling someone a pos because he pointed out that he was either deliberately not reading the responses or just wanted to be a contrarian....either way, not cool and not welcomed. 

how did i completely miss this response 

[Footballking16]

9 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Cathedral and Brownsburg will consume most of that percentage. Followed by HSE and Fishers who is followed by Carroll Snider and CP. The rest are unless the season proves us all wrong, mathematically just playing for participation trophies..

Might be a long year for Cathedral this year. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

14 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Might be a long year for Cathedral this year. 

I would rather be Cathedral and have a long year, than be Penn go undefeated and get beat in sectionals. 

[temptation]

30 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I would rather be Cathedral and have a long year, than be Penn go undefeated and get beat in sectionals. 

I mean, YOU might but I bet the student athletes would disagree.

I’ve been as hard on Penn as anyone on this board but you’ve been speaking like they are Edinburgh.

Still a top 25 program easily just nowhere near the top 5…plenty would trade places with the Kingsmen.

Edited Tuesday at 01:10 PM by temptation

[BLACKGOLD2007]

12 minutes ago, temptation said:

I mean, YOU might but I bet the student athletes would disagree.

I’ve been as hard on Penn as anyone on this board but you’ve been speaking like they are Edinburgh.

Still a top 25 program easily just nowhere near the top 5…plenty would trade places with the Kingsmen.

Just disenchanted with this process. We look strong and then crap the bed, get roasted on this board for having like 5 of the worst losses in state finals history. It is getting old. Yes I long for the era of Geez to come back, but it isn't, so I have resorted to just understanding a top level state title will be a long shot until the day I die....which I am only 35.  

[temptation]

20 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Just disenchanted with this process. We look strong and then crap the bed, get roasted on this board for having like 5 of the worst losses in state finals history. It is getting old. Yes I long for the era of Geez to come back, but it isn't, so I have resorted to just understanding a top level state title will be a long shot until the day I die....which I am only 35.  

Love that you have high standards but it’s just a message board man.  Who cares what this board thinks?

How’s the new regime at Penn thus far?  Any reports?

[BLACKGOLD2007]

8 minutes ago, temptation said:

Love that you have high standards but it’s just a message board man.  Who cares what this board thinks?

How’s the new regime at Penn thus far?  Any reports?

I am hoping the additions to the coaching staff under Coach Pete can help modernize the offense. Over the past decade the O has become so predictable, in some games only running a handful of plays out of a single formation. 

I would even take an aggressive down hill running scheme that utilizes traps and some misdirection vs our zone running that we have been doing the last decade or so. We need to be able to diversify our formations and stretch defenses on the outside to keep teams off balance. That has not been the case. 

I think Pete is going to bring a modern flare to the Kingsmen, I just hope we can find a way to get more big time schools on the schedule so when we come up against CP, Carroll etc. in playoffs we are prepared for those games. 

I am cautiously optimistic for this season. Knowing we play one of the weakest schedules in 6A, will we be ready for the size and strength of CP in sectionals. If we can win that game, I think then there is a good chance we will compete with Snider or Carroll, but we need to start off the right way and beat Valpo week 1. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

10 minutes ago, temptation said:

Love that you have high standards but it’s just a message board man.  Who cares what this board thinks?

It isn't so much what people think, but the harsh realization that we aren't as relevant any more. We don't have that impact on old 5A and now 6A that we used to have. Semi-state in the north ran through Penn and Carmel for the longest time. If you got through them you were probably worthy of being the North representative. Now, it is just hope and pray we keep it close. 

[temptation]

29 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

It isn't so much what people think, but the harsh realization that we aren't as relevant any more. We don't have that impact on old 5A and now 6A that we used to have. Semi-state in the north ran through Penn and Carmel for the longest time. If you got through them you were probably worthy of being the North representative. Now, it is just hope and pray we keep it close. 

I get it.

[KmartGiant]

2024 6A state contenders: BD and Warren based on top tier talent alone are my 2 favorites. CG and Carmel have some nice talent and of course their feeder systems are as strong as always like BD & Warren.  Brownsburg, HSE and Fishers have a boatload of talent too. Don't forget Avon, they are building too. Westfield is worth mentioning, but the loss of Gilbert will be felt. Whoever comes out of the North outside of Hamilton County(yes they are North of the geographical center of the state) will not matter as always. Another predict the score for the southern team coming turkey weekend. My next thought is who is gonna be Mr. Football? There are a few defensive standouts and 2 way players who should have a legit shot. It's hard to win as a defensive player, but you have to say that there are some serious major D1 studs out there that can stake their claim from the defensive side. Should make for an interesting season. 

[temptation]

2 hours ago, KmartGiant said:

2024 6A state contenders: BD and Warren based on top tier talent alone are my 2 favorites. CG and Carmel have some nice talent and of course their feeder systems are as strong as always like BD & Warren.  Brownsburg, HSE and Fishers have a boatload of talent too. Don't forget Avon, they are building too. Westfield is worth mentioning, but the loss of Gilbert will be felt. Whoever comes out of the North outside of Hamilton County(yes they are North of the geographical center of the state) will not matter as always. Another predict the score for the southern team coming turkey weekend. My next thought is who is gonna be Mr. Football? There are a few defensive standouts and 2 way players who should have a legit shot. It's hard to win as a defensive player, but you have to say that there are some serious major D1 studs out there that can stake their claim from the defensive side. Should make for an interesting season. 

Welcome back.

As for Mr. Football, you’ve gotta be a two way player if your primary position is on defense in my opinion.  Bowen (Andrean) and Smith (Luers) are really the only examples of guys to play both ways and win it recently.  Kiser played both ways I guess and is now a defensive player at the next level but I’m not sure that fits.

Based on this, expect Zachary (BD) to be in the mix.  I know he plays both ways but was recruited as a DB.

Will Hall (Fishers) get enough touches?  Hard for a WR to win (the Heisman too).

One thing is for certain and often comes up on this board.

1.  Your chances of winning are significantly higher if you play in a larger class.

2.  Your chances of winning are significantly higher if you are within a stone’s throw of downtown Indianapolis…(though the last three award winners bucked that trend).

3.  Your chances of winning are significantly higher if you play a skill position, specifically running back or quarterback.

4.  Recruiting rankings matter, fair or not.

5.  Some people will inevitably claim bias and be pissed once the award is announced.

That being said, Zackery would be my favorite entering the season.

Edited Tuesday at 06:11 PM by temptation

[BDGiant93]

On 6/28/2024 at 4:45 PM, Bash Riprock said:

Was Jason Simmons not a good conductor?  Barely had a .500 record in his 5 years there.  Even with 4500 students.

Jason's a good man and obviously a good coach or he wouldn't be at Purdue right now. His first year was a disaster. He was hired in March. Kirschner had left in December. The Giants were losing 50+ seniors and most of the assistants were moving on or going elsewhere. Jason came in, and that first 3-7 year was a struggle. The other years were head scratchers. I know the Giants were benefitted by having the easiest 6A Sectional for a couple of those years, but they still pulled upsets to reach the Semi-State. They were fairly close that second year to Center Grove. The other years, I think they probably left some wins on the table, but I think Jason would admit that. 

On 6/24/2024 at 8:03 AM, temptation said:

Coaching overthinking got in the way.  They had BD on the ropes.

Not the first time that's happened with Brownsburg vs. BD...over multiple coaches.

On 6/27/2024 at 12:28 PM, temptation said:

Head scratching for sure, especially considering he parlayed that 31-28 record into a D1 coordinator position.

He and Tom Allen are the only coaches NOT to win at Ben Davis and both are now coaching at the next level, lol.

Tom went 25-12 and was at Ben Davis when Warren was rolling. Tom's middle year was a struggle, but his first year was a 10-3 year where they lost three games by a total of 4 points and were probably a fumble recovery from beating WC in the Regional. Year 2 was not good. The Giants had a year where they couldn't settle on a QB. The third year for Tom, I think, had BD ranked #2 in the preseason poll. They went 9-4 with the horrible loss at Warren where every QB in the program got hurt. They had to start a sophomore against TH North and lost that one. They lost at Carmel and then took another loss at Warren. That, was, of course Warren's 2006 team that is in the convo for best-ever in the state. 

[BDGiant93]

On 6/30/2024 at 6:21 PM, Footballking16 said:

Position coach vs head coach an entire different animal. 
 

Would also guess he was hired for his connections to Central Indiana football in regards to recruiting.

For what it's worth, they called him. It's my understanding that he didn't pursue it. 

On 6/27/2024 at 10:48 AM, temptation said:

Nah, you give up too easy.

Let’s try this one…

Hey @Bash Riprock…since you like to downplay enrollment and often cite culture, coachng, youth leagues, etc…

Talk to me a little about Russ Mann walking into Ben Davis in his first year and winning a state title…

Have you taken a look at Russ's resume? It was his first head coaching job, but it wasn't his first state title.

Russ is very analytical. I really respect the way he came in, listened to the people he needed to listen to, got tremendous buy-in from the players and motivated them. BD was absolutely loaded last year on both sides of the football. Can't deny that. They had a very good kicker. They got lucky at the right times, but they aren't there without that really good group of seniors. 

[Indiana Fan]

9 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

Jason's a good man and obviously a good coach or he wouldn't be at Purdue right now. His first year was a disaster. He was hired in March. Kirschner had left in December. The Giants were losing 50+ seniors and most of the assistants were moving on or going elsewhere. Jason came in, and that first 3-7 year was a struggle. The other years were head scratchers. I know the Giants were benefitted by having the easiest 6A Sectional for a couple of those years, but they still pulled upsets to reach the Semi-State. They were fairly close that second year to Center Grove. The other years, I think they probably left some wins on the table, but I think Jason would admit that. 

Not the first time that's happened with Brownsburg vs. BD...over multiple coaches.

Tom went 25-12 and was at Ben Davis when Warren was rolling. Tom's middle year was a struggle, but his first year was a 10-3 year where they lost three games by a total of 4 points and were probably a fumble recovery from beating WC in the Regional. Year 2 was not good. The Giants had a year where they couldn't settle on a QB. The third year for Tom, I think, had BD ranked #2 in the preseason poll. They went 9-4 with the horrible loss at Warren where every QB in the program got hurt. They had to start a sophomore against TH North and lost that one. They lost at Carmel and then took another loss at Warren. That, was, of course Warren's 2006 team that is in the convo for best-ever in the state. 

I’ll never forget the Warren Central beating BD 77-7…or something close to that

[Bash Riprock]

9 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

Jason's a good man and obviously a good coach or he wouldn't be at Purdue right now. His first year was a disaster. He was hired in March. Kirschner had left in December. The Giants were losing 50+ seniors and most of the assistants were moving on or going elsewhere. Jason came in, and that first 3-7 year was a struggle. The other years were head scratchers. I know the Giants were benefitted by having the easiest 6A Sectional for a couple of those years, but they still pulled upsets to reach the Semi-State. They were fairly close that second year to Center Grove. The other years, I think they probably left some wins on the table, but I think Jason would admit that. 

 

Not saying he wasn't a good coach.  His record over 5 years was 31-28 and was using this period to demonstrate in a conversation on this board that being one of the largest 3 schools in 6A doesn't automatically put a school in the 6A championship game.  

Guess I could have used Warren Central's last 3 years under Kirschner (another very good coach) is another example.  Since his return to WC, he is 16-17.  Carmel is 11-9 over the past 2 seasons with first round sectional losses.  

My point being, the largest populated schools, while certainly a benefit, are not a shoe-in to win to the 6A state title.  As good as BD was last year, they had to work their tails off to overcome Brownsburg, Cathedral and CG, winning each game by 3 points, the last one in OT that could have certainly went either way.  Their excellent kicker certainly made a huge difference.  

There seem to be a number of schools in the Indy metro area (and outside the area) that are overcoming the size differential and closing the gap.  CG has done so for years...others now are doing the same.

[temptation]

55 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Not saying he wasn't a good coach.  His record over 5 years was 31-28 and was using this period to demonstrate in a conversation on this board that being one of the largest 3 schools in 6A doesn't automatically put a school in the 6A championship game.  

Guess I could have used Warren Central's last 3 years under Kirschner (another very good coach) is another example.  Since his return to WC, he is 16-17.  Carmel is 11-9 over the past 2 seasons with first round sectional losses.  

My point being, the largest populated schools, while certainly a benefit, are not a shoe-in to win to the 6A state title.  As good as BD was last year, they had to work their tails off to overcome Brownsburg, Cathedral and CG, winning each game by 3 points, the last one in OT that could have certainly went either way.  Their excellent kicker certainly made a huge difference.  

There seem to be a number of schools in the Indy metro area (and outside the area) that are overcoming the size differential and closing the gap.  CG has done so for years...others now are doing the same.

You keep saying the same thing just in a different way, lol.

How is it going through every day in life with everything being in black and white?

NO ONE has claimed that enrollment is a bye into the 6A title game yet here you are…again.

[KmartGiant]

It's hard for me to post often as I travel for work. Anyhow, I agree that BD's Mark Zackery should be an early favorite for Mr. Football. He has put up some impressive offensive stats at WR and his defensive body of work speaks for itself. There are many great candidates this year. I have to believe it's an open year.

I recently sent BD Coach Russ Mann a message on X. Telling him to get BD out of the MIC(in football) and follow the leads of CG and Carmel as far as SOS.  Get on a much more national schedule where you could play OH schools in place of Pike, Avon and North Central(all scrimmages at this point). It makes sense and with an alumni that is loaded with funds, it wouldn't be hard to pay for the out of state games(maybe 2 a year max). The 300 mile travel radius that now has allowed teams further away like IMG  and others come play in or near Indiana, this would further strengthen the team come tournament time.  I'd love to see the Giants play St. Edward(Lakewood) or Archbishop Hoban or Cincinnati schools Moeller, St. X, Elder or Colerain who are a short 2 hour bus ride away. My 2 cents for today. 

[temptation]

58 minutes ago, KmartGiant said:

It's hard for me to post often as I travel for work. Anyhow, I agree that BD's Mark Zackery should be an early favorite for Mr. Football. He has put up some impressive offensive stats at WR and his defensive body of work speaks for itself. There are many great candidates this year. I have to believe it's an open year.

I recently sent BD Coach Russ Mann a message on X. Telling him to get BD out of the MIC(in football) and follow the leads of CG and Carmel as far as SOS.  Get on a much more national schedule where you could play OH schools in place of Pike, Avon and North Central(all scrimmages at this point). It makes sense and with an alumni that is loaded with funds, it wouldn't be hard to pay for the out of state games(maybe 2 a year max). The 300 mile travel radius that now has allowed teams further away like IMG  and others come play in or near Indiana, this would further strengthen the team come tournament time.  I'd love to see the Giants play St. Edward(Lakewood) or Archbishop Hoban or Cincinnati schools Moeller, St. X, Elder or Colerain who are a short 2 hour bus ride away. My 2 cents for today. 

I’m sure he listened.  Seems pretty arrogant.

BD is 3-3 against Avon in its last 6 meetings and if you scroll up, you mentioned them as a “program on the rise.”

Which is it?

[Bash Riprock]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

You keep saying the same thing just in a different way, lol.

How is it going through every day in life with everything being in black and white?

NO ONE has claimed that enrollment is a bye into the 6A title game yet here you are…again.

The response wasn't to you....you don't need to feel compelled to open mouth.

The original discussion was that enrollment was the most significant factor in large class championships, and specifically the enrollment of the big 3.  I didn't agree, and simply showing that recent records of 6A would not support that statement as well.  

Look, I know when I type anything on this forum, it will result in you responding....every single time.  Perhaps its just for sport???

 

[temptation]

31 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

The response wasn't to you....you don't need to feel compelled to open mouth.

The original discussion was that enrollment was the most significant factor in large class championships, and specifically the enrollment of the big 3.  I didn't agree, and simply showing that recent records of 6A would not support that statement as well.  

Look, I know when I type anything on this forum, it will result in you responding....every single time.  Perhaps its just for sport???

 

It’s a PUBLIC forum, lol.  If you wanna have a private spat and have your opinions raise above scrutiny, there is a function on the very board for that.

You used the word “benefit.”  I’ll count that as progress.

Edited Wednesday at 06:35 PM by temptation

[psaboy]

On 7/2/2024 at 9:24 AM, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Just disenchanted with this process. We look strong and then crap the bed, get roasted on this board for having like 5 of the worst losses in state finals history. It is getting old. Yes I long for the era of Geez to come back, but it isn't, so I have resorted to just understanding a top level state title will be a long shot until the day I die....which I am only 35.  

If you live the expected life span of a male, I think that that gives you another 40-45 years. I bet you they win one before you pass. Bet you beer, can meet at the Wings Etc. on McKinley when 40 years is up, or sooner when they win one on in next 1 to 20. 

Edited Wednesday at 11:13 PM by psaboy

[Rodney]

15 hours ago, temptation said:

You keep saying the same thing just in a different way, lol.

How is it going through every day in life with everything being in black and white?

NO ONE has claimed that enrollment is a bye into the 6A title game yet here you are…again.

i have

until a 1a school wins it

[temptation]

3 hours ago, Rodney said:

i have

until a 1a school wins it

Nick Saban at Edinburgh, let’s do this.

[KmartGiant]

20 hours ago, temptation said:

I’m sure he listened.  Seems pretty arrogant.

BD is 3-3 against Avon in its last 6 meetings and if you scroll up, you mentioned them as a “program on the rise.”

Which is it?

Truth 3-3. Since Bless stepped down, so did Avon. BD won the past 3 with relative ease, all lopsided too. Avon is a very healthy program and is going to get much better and in a relatively quick time. My whole point for BD scheduling up is for the immediate future. Don't wait for teams to get better, worry about "now". I even think Pike and NC will be somewhat better in the next few years. These teams will always want to play BD regardless. For now, if I am BD I find a couple of Cincinnati schools or Cleveland area school to make the team better now. I know they can win state w/o this, but to be the best, play the best. Pretty simple mantra. They throttled Moeller LY near their home turf. I firmly believe IN needs more top notch out of state games. It shows where you stack up nationally, which is a good thing. Happy fourth of July brothers and sisters.

[Bash Riprock]

19 hours ago, temptation said:

It’s a PUBLIC forum, lol.  If you wanna have a private spat and have your opinions raise above scrutiny, there is a function on the very board for that.

You used the word “benefit.”  I’ll count that as progress.

Just because its a PUBLIC forum, doesn't mean one should respond to every single post...especially if the post was in response to another person's comment. But hey, we all understand you can't seem to help yourself....

Hey, being positive...Happy 4th!