Northwest Indiana Top 10

[temptation]

11 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

If you are going to quote me, then do it right. I said Notre Dame is ranked high every year despite results and recruiting every year, Warren’s reference was for last year only as Warren has been a great team for a long time, last year was awful for them hence my rant about why they are being ranked so high

College and high school are completely different, I clearly explained why

Rankings as far as Warren’s record last year, especially being 0-7 against .500 or above teams is relevant and you know it

I do believe Penn is better than CP hence my ranking

Yeah, it’s relevant.  One data point of many.

[BTF]

17 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

I do believe Penn is better than CP hence my ranking

Penn had a good football team last year, no doubt. They beat a team handily that were within 5 points of beating both Merrillville and Crown Point. Beat another team by 21 points that had Snider down to the last second. Wasted the team that wasted Carroll. Lost by a point to a team that controlled Westfield for an entire game and ultimately beat them in overtime. But they suffer the same problem Homestead suffers. When they play Indy teams, they lay a massive leg. Is it a mindset at this point? Damn, Penn wasn't even competitive against Cathedral. 

[Komets2727]

41 minutes ago, BTF said:

Penn had a good football team last year, no doubt. They beat a team handily that were within 5 points of beating both Merrillville and Crown Point. Beat another team by 21 points that had Snider down to the last second. Wasted the team that wasted Carroll. Lost by a point to a team that controlled Westfield for an entire game and ultimately beat them in overtime. But they suffer the same problem Homestead suffers. When they play Indy teams, they lay a massive leg. Is it a mindset at this point? Damn, Penn wasn't even competitive against Cathedral. 

Thinking the coaching change at Penn will pay dividend's quickly. Every time Snider plays Penn it is a toss up. Got to be a mental thing with Indy based teams for Penn, though Indy based teams have most everyone’s number

[temptation]

39 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Thinking the coaching change at Penn will pay dividend's quickly. Every time Snider plays Penn it is a toss up. Got to be a mental thing with Indy based teams for Penn, though Indy based teams have most everyone’s number

I don’t think it’s mental.  I think it was outlined by another poster on here.

Penn was behind the times scheme wise/offensively and hasn’t taken the sport as seriously as the Indy schools have between 8am-3pm since the turn of the century.

Edited August 3, 2024 by temptation

[BTF]

10 hours ago, temptation said:

I don’t think it’s mental.  I think it was outlined by another poster on here.

Penn was behind the times scheme wise/offensively and hasn’t taken the sport as seriously as the Indy schools have between 8am-3pm since the turn of the century.

I get that changes needed to be made within their program. But explain why they seem to be successful against programs who have much less issues with Indy than they do, but yet anytime they play an Indy school, it's not even competitive. Mental is a big part of the game. No one can convince me that Homestead doesn't have a mental road block when they play Indy schools. They were embarrassed last year by Noblesville and Fishers, two teams I'd bet Snider would have beaten last year. Yet the Spartan's have beaten Snider 4 of their last 6 meetings, *including last season* They utterly TANK, like Penn, when Indy comes to town. Are they getting beat by better teams? Sure. But these embarrassing scores every single year? We can agree to disagree, but I won't change my position on Homestead's mental road block. Their goal seems to be to win the SAC at the beginning of the season, whereas Snider's goal is to win state. There's a difference in mentality there. 

 

[temptation]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

I get that changes needed to be made within their program. But explain why they seem to be successful against programs who have much less issues with Indy than they do, but yet anytime they play an Indy school, it's not even competitive. Mental is a big part of the game. No one can convince me that Homestead doesn't have a mental road block when they play Indy schools. They were embarrassed last year by Noblesville and Fishers, two teams I'd bet Snider would have beaten last year. Yet the Spartan's have beaten Snider 4 of their last 6 meetings, *including last season* They utterly TANK, like Penn, when Indy comes to town. Are they getting beat by better teams? Sure. But these embarrassing scores every single year? We can agree to disagree, but I won't change my position on Homestead's mental road block. Their goal seems to be to win the SAC at the beginning of the season, whereas Snider's goal is to win state. There's a difference in mentality there. 

 

Nah, I just can’t buy it.  Unless you are referring to the coaching staffs, high school roster turnover does makes me a doubter in any type of “mental block.”

Now, if you wanna talk overconfidence I am all ears.  When it comes to Homestead, maybe they got comfortable being the best team in their backyard and it gave them a false sense of accomplishment?

Just spitballing here but I also heard the same idioms and tropes being tossed out about the Big Ten against the big bad SEC for years.

[BTF]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Nah, I just can’t buy it.  Unless you are referring to the coaching staffs, high school roster turnover does makes me a doubter in any type of “mental block.”

Now, if you wanna talk overconfidence I am all ears.  When it comes to Homestead, maybe they got comfortable being the best team in their backyard and it gave them a false sense of accomplishment?

Just spitballing here but I also heard the same idioms and tropes being tossed out about the Big Ten against the big bad SEC for years.

Last year's pre-season interviews. 

Reporter: What are your goals?

Homestead: Win the SAC

Snider: Win state

Massive difference in mentality. 

[Komets2727]

59 minutes ago, temptation said:

Nah, I just can’t buy it.  Unless you are referring to the coaching staffs, high school roster turnover does makes me a doubter in any type of “mental block.”

Now, if you wanna talk overconfidence I am all ears.  When it comes to Homestead, maybe they got comfortable being the best team in their backyard and it gave them a false sense of accomplishment?

Just spitballing here but I also heard the same idioms and tropes being tossed out about the Big Ten against the big bad SEC for years.

Having had brothers and nephews play high school football in Fort Wayne, let me assure you that some teams in this city have a mental block when it comes to playing the teams down South. Heard it with my own ears. 2 of my nephews played at Snider, there was zero intimidation about the Panthers playing Indy teams. Another nephew played at Homestead, he just ranted about how big the school they were playing, how fast they looked on film, they were beat before the game was even played. I would say one of the biggest jobs of a coach is to get his team ready to play regardless of who they are playing. Homestead sees Snider across the field, they are locked in, doesn’t matter the records at the time. Anything south past Aboite township, forget about it, it’s a wrap

[temptation]

12 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Having had brothers and nephews play high school football in Fort Wayne, let me assure you that some teams in this city have a mental block when it comes to playing the teams down South. Heard it with my own ears. 2 of my nephews played at Snider, there was zero intimidation about the Panthers playing Indy teams. Another nephew played at Homestead, he just ranted about how big the school they were playing, how fast they looked on film, they were beat before the game was even played. I would say one of the biggest jobs of a coach is to get his team ready to play regardless of who they are playing. Homestead sees Snider across the field, they are locked in, doesn’t matter the records at the time. Anything south past Aboite township, forget about it, it’s a wrap

Damn.  That’s an indictment of the coaching staff.

Snider = grit, tough kids, some from disadvantaged backgrounds?

Homestead = suburban kids who’ve rarely faced adversity?

It all comes full circle…

Edited August 3, 2024 by temptation

[Bobref]

45 minutes ago, temptation said:

Snider = grit, tough kids, some from disadvantaged backgrounds?

Homestead = suburban kids who’ve rarely faced adversity?

I know this is conventional wisdom, but does that make Center Grove an outlier?

[temptation]

14 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I know this is conventional wisdom, but does that make Center Grove an outlier?

Eh, possibly.  Other factors in play.

I’ve long stated, I want my free/reduced rate around 30% and my enrollment around 3000 if I were playing “create a school.”

 

[Coach Nowlin]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:24 AM, temptation said:

Don't consider Warsaw "NW Indiana" though.

I think the criteria should be the central time zone.

yes BOMBERS are in then !!!

[Komets2727]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Damn.  That’s an indictment of the coaching staff.

Snider = grit, tough kids, some from disadvantaged backgrounds?

Homestead = suburban kids who’ve rarely faced adversity?

It all comes full circle…

I believe that as well, but there have been multiple head coaches at Homestead over the years yet the same mentality exists.

I can buy the stereotypes you stated to a point, but there is diversity at Homestead. From someone who attended Snider in the 80’s, there was a genuine hatred from Snider towards Homestead in sports we played them in. We didn’t play them in football very often, if at all, when I was there. The arrogance and the “we are better than you cause we have money” BS attitude was prevalent. 

I have always looked at Homestead in football as Charmin soft. Hit them in the mouth, they go away. They are playing Snider tougher though recently, evidenced by their 4-2 record in the last 6 games. Somehow, they need to overcome the mental aspect of playing Indy teams. If they do, they will become a bigger factor in 6A football. Look at Carroll, they have Dinan in as head coach, ex Snider guy,  and they are almost a carbon copy of Snider now. Tough, gritty, take no prisoners approach
 

Edited August 3, 2024 by Komets2727

[temptation]

27 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

I believe that as well, but there have been multiple head coaches at Homestead over the years yet the same mentality exists.

I can buy the stereotypes you stated to a point, but there is diversity at Homestead. From someone who attended Snider in the 80’s, there was a genuine hatred from Snider towards Homestead in sports we played them in. We didn’t play them in football very often, if at all, when I was there. The arrogance and the “we are better than you cause we have money” BS attitude was prevalent. 

I have always looked at Homestead in football as Charmin soft. Hit them in the mouth, they go away. They are playing Snider tougher though recently, evidenced by their 4-2 record in the last 6 games. Somehow, they need to overcome the mental aspect of playing Indy teams. If they do, they will become a bigger factor in 6A football. Look at Carroll, they have Dinan in as head coach, ex Snider guy,  and they are almost a carbon copy of Snider now. Tough, gritty, take no prisoners approach
 

I always hear folks say “act like you’ve been there before.”

Seems like Snider has, Homestead honesty hasn’t so maybe it’s an unrealistic expectation.

[Boilernation]

5 hours ago, BTF said:

They were embarrassed last year by Noblesville and Fishers, two teams I'd bet Snider would have beaten last year. 

 

Snider needed a last second FG to get past Mishawaka. Why are you so sure they could have stopped Noblesville's 7 OL powered rushing attack let alone beat Fishers?

[scarab527]

1 hour ago, Boilernation said:

Snider needed a last second FG to get past Mishawaka. Why are you so sure they could have stopped Noblesville's 7 OL powered rushing attack let alone beat Fishers?

Common Fort Wayne delusion 

[PDB26]

11 hours ago, BTF said:

I get that changes needed to be made within their program. But explain why they seem to be successful against programs who have much less issues with Indy than they do, but yet anytime they play an Indy school, it's not even competitive. Mental is a big part of the game. No one can convince me that Homestead doesn't have a mental road block when they play Indy schools. They were embarrassed last year by Noblesville and Fishers, two teams I'd bet Snider would have beaten last year. Yet the Spartan's have beaten Snider 4 of their last 6 meetings, *including last season* They utterly TANK, like Penn, when Indy comes to town. Are they getting beat by better teams? Sure. But these embarrassing scores every single year? We can agree to disagree, but I won't change my position on Homestead's mental road block. Their goal seems to be to win the SAC at the beginning of the season, whereas Snider's goal is to win state. There's a difference in mentality there.

No disrespect, but isn't Homestead, at best, the third strongest program in the Fort Wayne area? Maybe Penn should play them.

Penn has had some high-profile blowups over the years––games in 2003, 2011, 2017 and their almost entirely uncompetitive series with Cathedral come to mind––but does that mean Penn has a mental hangup with the Indy schools or has Snider just not had enough opportunities to go out there and lay an egg or two? Sure, they beat Warren Central last year, so they're 1-1 against them since 2004 (4-4 all time). And Snider beat Ben Davis in 1992, but they haven't played the Giants since their game in 2002 (1-1). Neither Snider (2011) nor Penn (2020, 2021, 2022, 2023) have beaten Cathedral. Penn is 1-1 against Center Grove with the most recent result a loss in a competitive state final in 2015. Against Carmel, Penn is 4-7 (They last played in 2017 and Penn won, 34-7), and Snider is 4-9 (They last played in 2018, and Snider last won in 2004, 40-22). 

Penn's problem isn't mental. Sometimes its physical and others, I think, the conservative offensive approach catches up with them and the defense ends up getting big-played to death once the offense turns into a three-and-out machine.

[RegionFBFan]

I don’t know anything at all about Homestead football, but after reading the numerous posts and looking at their season results over the years, they remind me of a slightly better version of Lake Central HS in The Region.

They have the enrollment, diversity, facilities, athletes but just can’t get it together. Another new coach this season. Let’s see if anything changes??

[Boilernation]

9 hours ago, RegionFBFan said:

I don’t know anything at all about Homestead football, but after reading the numerous posts and looking at their season results over the years, they remind me of a slightly better version of Lake Central HS in The Region.

They have the enrollment, diversity, facilities, athletes but just can’t get it together. Another new coach this season. Let’s see if anything changes??

Nah, I think that would be an insult to Homestead. They've had some solid teams recently. Lake Central has been a massive under-achiever.

[BTF]

On 8/3/2024 at 2:19 PM, Boilernation said:

Snider needed a last second FG to get past Mishawaka. Why are you so sure they could have stopped Noblesville's 7 OL powered rushing attack let alone beat Fishers?

"I'd bet" on Snider beating anyone not named Ben Davis, Brownsburg, or Center Grove last year. That's how good I think their defense was. I'm not "so sure" they would have beaten a Cathedral, Fishers, HME, Noblesville, Westfield, Crown Point, or Penn. Those were all very good teams. My final ranking had Snider at #4 last year, just my opinion. 

 

21 hours ago, PDB26 said:

No disrespect, but isn't Homestead, at best, the third strongest program in the Fort Wayne area?

Strongest program? They certainly aren't a stronger program than Luers. Probably right there with Dwenger in the Saints current state of affairs. I would say because of resources they are Fort Wayne's 3rd strongest team. Program? No.

22 hours ago, PDB26 said:

but does that mean Penn has a mental hangup with the Indy schools  

Penn's problem isn't mental. 

I'll defer to Penn folks on this one. I think they had a very good team last year. Just perplexed when I see them lose to Indy teams by big numbers. I get it, Indy teams are good. But they manhandled Valpo and Mishawaka last year and almost beat Crown Point. Just scratching my head at the Cathedral score is all. 

22 hours ago, PDB26 said:

or has Snider just not had enough opportunities to go out there and lay an egg or two? Sure, they beat Warren Central last year, so they're 1-1 against them since 2004 (4-4 all time). And Snider beat Ben Davis in 1992, but they haven't played the Giants since their game in 2002 (1-1). Neither Snider (2011) nor Penn (2020, 2021, 2022, 2023) have beaten Cathedral. Penn is 1-1 against Center Grove with the most recent result a loss in a competitive state final in 2015. Against Carmel, Penn is 4-7 (They last played in 2017 and Penn won, 34-7), and Snider is 4-9 (They last played in 2018, and Snider last won in 2004, 40-22). 

Good research on this. Snider's 39-31 loss to Cathedral in 2011 was in part due to several (5-6) starters sitting out that game for various reasons. Cathedral was very good and had Snider playing catchup the whole game, but I think the missing players could have made a difference in the outcome. 

Carmel was fortunate to beat Snider in 2018. Arguably Snider's worst self destructed collapse in program history. They were a 'roughing the punter' away from blowing Carmel out before the collapse began. Three of their last four losses against the Greyhounds were by three points or less. Two other losses came in overtime. The record is deceiving, that's been a pretty even series. 

Last ten years vs Indy:

Snider 33, Decatur Central 6

Snider 42, Warren Central 20

Carmel 20, Snider 6

Carmel 22, Snider 21

Westfield 23, Snider 17

Snider 64, New Pal 61

Snider 32, Westfield 24

Snider's had their asses handed to them on a few occasions prior to the past ten years, I'm not saying they didn't. But overall, they're pretty solid against Indy. I like Penn and have nothing against Homestead. I'm one of their biggest fans when they play Indy schools. 

[Komets2727]

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

"I'd bet" on Snider beating anyone not named Ben Davis, Brownsburg, or Center Grove last year. That's how good I think their defense was. I'm not "so sure" they would have beaten a Cathedral, Fishers, HME, Noblesville, Westfield, Crown Point, or Penn. Those were all very good teams. My final ranking had Snider at #4 last year, just my opinion. 

 

Strongest program? They certainly aren't a stronger program than Luers. Probably right there with Dwenger in the Saints current state of affairs. I would say because of resources they are Fort Wayne's 3rd strongest team. Program? No.

I'll defer to Penn folks on this one. I think they had a very good team last year. Just perplexed when I see them lose to Indy teams by big numbers. I get it, Indy teams are good. But they manhandled Valpo and Mishawaka last year and almost beat Crown Point. Just scratching my head at the Cathedral score is all. 

Good research on this. Snider's 39-31 loss to Cathedral in 2011 was in part due to several (5-6) starters sitting out that game for various reasons. Cathedral was very good and had Snider playing catchup the whole game, but I think the missing players could have made a difference in the outcome. 

Carmel was fortunate to beat Snider in 2018. Arguably Snider's worst self destructed collapse in program history. They were a 'roughing the punter' away from blowing Carmel out before the collapse began. Three of their last four losses against the Greyhounds were by three points or less. Two other losses came in overtime. The record is deceiving, that's been a pretty even series. 

Last ten years vs Indy:

Snider 33, Decatur Central 6

Snider 42, Warren Central 20

Carmel 20, Snider 6

Carmel 22, Snider 21

Westfield 23, Snider 17

Snider 64, New Pal 61

Snider 32, Westfield 24

Snider's had their asses handed to them on a few occasions prior to the past ten years, I'm not saying they didn't. But overall, they're pretty solid against Indy. I like Penn and have nothing against Homestead. I'm one of their biggest fans when they play Indy schools. 

Biggest difference between Snider and Homestead when playing Indy teams is confidence and belief. Penn is almost in the same boat as Homestead when it comes to Indy teams. 

As far as rooting for Homestead goes, nah I’ll pass. I will root for every team in the SAC to beat Sparty, can’t stand that school. Hard for me to say the words, that means I would root for Dwenger against Sparty. Blah!!! I went to a Snider vs. Homestead game a few years ago at Homestead and I remember walking into the stadium and wanting to just leave. 
 

[BTF]

1 minute ago, Komets2727 said:

Biggest difference between Snider and Homestead when playing Indy teams is confidence and belief. Penn is almost in the same boat as Homestead when it comes to Indy teams. 

As far as rooting for Homestead goes, nah I’ll pass. I will root for every team in the SAC to beat Sparty, can’t stand that school. Hard for me to say the words, that means I would root for Dwenger against Sparty. Blah!!! I went to a Snider vs. Homestead game a few years ago at Homestead and I remember walking into the stadium and wanting to just leave. 
 

Yeah, I didn't think the "money money money" song on the PA was in good taste when they had the game in hand in the fourth quarter. 

[Coach Nowlin]

is Billy Skeleton still coaching at Homestead? 

 

[BTF]

On 8/5/2024 at 3:19 PM, Coach Nowlin said:

is Billy Skeleton still coaching at Homestead? 

 

Sorry, don't know the answer to that. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 8/2/2024 at 8:24 PM, BTF said:

Penn had a good football team last year, no doubt. They beat a team handily that were within 5 points of beating both Merrillville and Crown Point. Beat another team by 21 points that had Snider down to the last second. Wasted the team that wasted Carroll. Lost by a point to a team that controlled Westfield for an entire game and ultimately beat them in overtime. But they suffer the same problem Homestead suffers. When they play Indy teams, they lay a massive leg. Is it a mindset at this point? Damn, Penn wasn't even competitive against Cathedral. 

The Penn Cathedral game last year was 110% a let down. Everything I heard is that the team just lacked motivation and enthusiasm to be there....That scared me last year. 

I think the future is getting brighter in Penn Country from the things I have heard from some players and parents.