Temp’s Preseason Top 50

[Coach Lou]

How is Warren the best defense in the state when they lost 7 games last year and gave up over 40 points 3 times. Granted they may be improved and have a lot coming back but best in the state????

 

[temptation]

35 minutes ago, Coach Lou said:

How is Warren the best defense in the state when they lost 7 games last year and gave up over 40 points 3 times. Granted they may be improved and have a lot coming back but best in the state????

 

I took that statement back.  I had forgotten a couple of those shortcomings you mentioned.

I will say however, that their offense's inability to get out of their own way contributed to their defense being put in a lot of bad spots and can't speak to how many of those scores in the games you mentioned were actually defensive touchdowns.

Warren is a high ceiling, low floor team this fall.  Gonna be interesting to see if they can put it together.  The home schedule is extremely favorable.

Edited July 31, 2024 by temptation

[NLCTigerFan07]

2 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

OMG....WTH! Bart isn't scared to test his squads.

Never in a million years did I expect Warsaw to face Warren Central or Ben Davis on the football field. That is definitely one of the areas that Coach Curtis immediately upgraded (and rose the expecations of/for) Tiger football.

Don't get me wrong, Columbia City (4A) has had a nice run recently, and East Noble (4A) is no slouch of a program, but under Bart, Warsaw has upgraded their out of conference schedule significantly. Michigan City (5A) has been a great series, a single game against perennial Ohio Division I contender Dublin Coffman, and (at the time the series was scheduled) 6A foe Chesterton.

Now with Warren Central, Ben Davis, and FW Snider in coming years... that is no joke of an out of conference schedule.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

1 hour ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Never in a million years did I expect Warsaw to face Warren Central or Ben Davis on the football field. That is definitely one of the areas that Coach Curtis immediately upgraded (and rose the expectations of/for) Tiger football.

Don't get me wrong, Columbia City (4A) has had a nice run recently, and East Noble (4A) is no slouch of a program, but under Bart, Warsaw has upgraded their out of conference schedule significantly. Michigan City (5A) has been a great series, a single game against perennial Ohio Division I contender Dublin Coffman, and (at the time the series was scheduled) 6A foe Chesterton.

Now with Warren Central, Ben Davis, and FW Snider in coming years... that is no joke of an out of conference schedule.

It is a shame that Warsaw went down to 5A, I think they have a strong chance in 5A north to make a lot of noise. But, I think that Warsaw is starting to look towards the future of the program, elevating to the next level. Even though they may not be in 6A when those games come around this will over prepare them for what they will see in the 5A tournament.

Even if they get drubbed, this is going to benefit the young men.  

 

[BTF]

36 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

It is a shame that Warsaw went down to 5A, I think they have a strong chance in 5A north to make a lot of noise. But, I think that Warsaw is starting to look towards the future of the program, elevating to the next level. Even though they may not be in 6A when those games come around this will over prepare them for what they will see in the 5A tournament.

Even if they get drubbed, this is going to benefit the young men.  

 

I think Warsaw is playing in the division they belong in pound for pound. I like the idea of them knocking heads with Merrillville and Valpo for 5A northern supremacy. My confidence level is very low in them ever winning a 6A title. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

I think Warsaw is playing in the division they belong in pound for pound. I like the idea of them knocking heads with Merrillville and Valpo for 5A northern supremacy. My confidence level is very low in them ever winning a 6A title. 

My confidence level is very low for many North 6A teams winning state. 

[BTF]

6 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

My confidence level is very low for many North 6A teams winning state. 

There's an 80% chance that one of four teams will win the state title. The other 20% is comprised of about 10 teams. Warsaw's not one of them............yet. In reality, the other 18 teams are just there as stepping stones for the others to compete for a championship. 

[Komets2727]

10 hours ago, temptation said:

C’mon.  You are doing it again.

I can’t believe you are putting me in the spot of defending Warren and that I am about to make an SEC analogy but here we are.

The MIC, though not as formidable as it once was is still the SEC of Indiana high school football and even though Warren had a subpar year last year and were a mid pack team in the MIC, they win seven games in every other league not named the HCC.

Add to that fact that nearly all of their talent is returning and they’ve upgraded at the skill positions and it’s not hard to fathom.

Ok, Warren’s 5 wins last year were these:

North Central 0-10, 49-17

Lawrence Central 4-6, 25-16

Indy Pike 3-8, 23-6

Perry Meridian 2-8, 49-0

Southport 2-9, 47-0

Record of these teams 11-42

Outscored these teams 193-39

So, I again ask the question, who did  beat that was any good? You also said that they would do well in any other conference in the state, well, they were 0-2 vs. the SAC last year….

Listen, last year has nothing to do with this year’s teams, but to say that all of their returning starters and a few transfer adds up to a top 3 6A preseason team is poor based on what they did last year

 

 

 

[temptation]

6 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Ok, Warren’s 5 wins last year were these:

North Central 0-10, 49-17

Lawrence Central 4-6, 25-16

Indy Pike 3-8, 23-6

Perry Meridian 2-8, 49-0

Southport 2-9, 47-0

Record of these teams 11-42

Outscored these teams 193-39

So, I again ask the question, who did  beat that was any good? You also said that they would do well in any other conference in the state, well, they were 0-2 vs. the SAC last year….

Listen, last year has nothing to do with this year’s teams, but to say that all of their returning starters and a few transfer adds up to a top 3 6A preseason team is poor based on what they did last year

 

 

 

Can’t place an HCC team above em, 6A isn’t top heavy this year.

They’ll be higher than you think they should be, but I bet Snider is too.

[Komets2727]

53 minutes ago, temptation said:

Can’t place an HCC team above em, 6A isn’t top heavy this year.

They’ll be higher than you think they should be, but I bet Snider is too.

I am not engaging in this conversation on behalf of Snider at all. Off the top of my head, there are at least 5-6 6A teams that should be ahead of Warren come your reveal

Edited July 31, 2024 by Komets2727

[temptation]

29 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

I am not engaging in this conversation on behalf of Snider at all. Off the top of my head, there are at least 5-6 6A teams that should be ahead of Warren come your reveal

List em…with reasoning.

Edited August 1, 2024 by temptation

[Komets2727]

29 minutes ago, temptation said:

List em…with reasoning.

Ben Davis - Defending 6A state champ, beat Warren last year

Snider - Defending 5A state champ, throttled Warren last year

Carroll - Beat Warren last year, very good team returning D1 QB, probably favorite in SAC this year

Center Grove - Top 6A program in the state last 5 years, lost 37-34 to Ben Davis last year in playoffs or would have had a 4 peat

Chatard - Defending 3A state champ, 15-0, beat perennial good Cathedral and dominated 3A

East Central - Defending 2 time 4A state champ, top 5 regardless of class last 2 years running

Cathedral - Always a state title contender regardless of class, eye test has proven to me better than Warren

Crown Point - 6A state runner up last year, would have beaten Warren easily last year

There are 9 teams that deserve to be ahead of Warren and that is me coming up with off the top of my head.  Keep in mind, while you tout Warren, they were 0-7 vs. .500 or above teams last year. This was really too easy my friend…

 

 

[temptation]

4 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Ben Davis - Defending 6A state champ, beat Warren last year

Snider - Defending 5A state champ, throttled Warren last year

Carroll - Beat Warren last year, very good team returning D1 QB, probably favorite in SAC this year

Center Grove - Top 6A program in the state last 5 years, lost 37-34 to Ben Davis last year in playoffs or would have had a 4 peat

Chatard - Defending 3A state champ, 15-0, beat perennial good Cathedral and dominated 3A

East Central - Defending 2 time 4A state champ, top 5 regardless of class last 2 years running

Cathedral - Always a state title contender regardless of class, eye test has proven to me better than Warren

Crown Point - 6A state runner up last year, would have beaten Warren easily last year

There are 9 teams that deserve to be ahead of Warren and that is me coming up with off the top of my head.  Keep in mind, while you tout Warren, they were 0-7 vs. .500 or above teams last year. This was really too easy my friend…

 

 

You’re drinking before sundown huh?

 

[Komets2727]

6 minutes ago, temptation said:

You’re drinking before sundown huh?

 

Best response you got? Every single one of those teams would have been favored over Warren last year. Facts are facts my friend. Sucks for you to be an apologist for Warren, 0-7 vs. teams above .500 makes it way too easy. Nothing I stated was inaccurate

[Komets2727]

9 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Best response you got? Every single one of those teams would have been favored over Warren last year. Facts are facts my friend. Sucks for you to be an apologist for Warren, 0-7 vs. teams above .500 makes it way too easy. Nothing I stated was inaccurate

Crown Point 4 point favorite

Cathedral 12.5 point favorite

East Central 14.5 point favorite

Center Grove 13 point favorite 

Chatard 2.5 point favorite 

Ben Davis beat Warren

Snider beat Warren

Carroll beat Warren

Any questions?

[temptation]

8 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

Best response you got? Every single one of those teams would have been favored over Warren last year. Facts are facts my friend. Sucks for you to be an apologist for Warren, 0-7 vs. teams above .500 makes it way too easy. Nothing I stated was inaccurate

Yep, best response I’ve got.  While I agree, Warren has a lot to prove and their trajectory has been exactly stellar since their last state title, I think you’re overreacting here.  
 

And it’s not me building up Warren, it’s everyone.  You’re gonna be pissed at the preseason coaches/media rankings.

[Komets2727]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Yep, best response I’ve got.  While I agree, Warren has a lot to prove and their trajectory has been exactly stellar since their last state title, I think you’re overreacting here.  
 

And it’s not me building up Warren, it’s everyone.  You’re gonna be pissed at the preseason coaches/media rankings.

My point here is they need to earn their spot, not just be given it.

[BTF]

32 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

My point here is they need to earn their spot, not just be given it.

I agree that Warren Central had some preseason hype a year ago, but it never materialized. But when someone creates a poll, part of their job is to look at how well a team will do this year vs a year ago. I'm not a believer that if a team was just average with a bunch of juniors, that they won't be much better as seniors. Young men that age develop quite a bit over the course of a year.

I think in the case for Warren Central, you have to look at the talented juniors they had last year who are now seniors. I think you have a program that feels that they may have underperformed a season ago and they'll use that motivation to not let it happen again. Just as Snider wasn't going to let anyone get in the way of their 2023 championship after underperforming in 2021 & 2022. They became an unstoppable force. I don't see any reason why Warren Central can't turn the corner and do the same thing.

Polls are fun, that's all they are. Creating a pre-season poll isn't easy, I'm glad I'm not the one doing it. They work themselves out as the season progresses. And the banter back and forth is fun as well. One is saying "show me FIRST." One is saying "the writing is on the wall." I see both sides of this equation. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

My point here is they need to earn their spot, not just be given it.

Ironically, I think that most of those who compile rankings (the real ones, not mine on here) would tend to agree but they'd take the stance that Warren HAS earned it.  Fair or not, a school with 9 state championships (7 in the last two decades) is likely going to be given the benefit of the doubt and "down seasons" are going to be marginalized.

Like I said, not necessarily fair but its kinda how it goes.

[Komets2727]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

Ironically, I think that most of those who compile rankings (the real ones, not mine on here) would tend to agree but they'd take the stance that Warren HAS earned it.  Fair or not, a school with 9 state championships (7 in the last two decades) is likely going to be given the benefit of the doubt and "down seasons" are going to be marginalized.

Like I said, not necessarily fair but its kinda how it goes.

So, just like Notre Dame football, who is given a top 10 ranking every year despite being a non factor for over 30 years, it is just given. Ok…

I appreciate the fact that you are doing your rankings, always a good read, but I have also appreciated you not just following the rest when doing so. Sometimes being original and contrarian is not a bad thing…

Edited August 1, 2024 by Komets2727

[Bobref]

52 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

So, just like Notre Dame football, who is given a top 10 ranking every year despite being a non factor for over 30 years

🐂💩

[temptation]

2 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

So, just like Notre Dame football, who is given a top 10 ranking every year despite being a non factor for over 30 years, it is just given. Ok…

I appreciate the fact that you are doing your rankings, always a good read, but I have also appreciated you not just following the rest when doing so. Sometimes being original and contrarian is not a bad thing…

Despite being someone who has difficulty passing on any opportunity to take a dump on Notre Dame, I think this analogy misses slightly.  ND is among the most talented 10-15 teams in football annually but every team has the same pool of players and scholarship limits by which to abide.  

Warren annually has nearly 300 kids out for football and has a decisive enrollment advantage over nearly every other school in the state in that category.

I am not "following the rest" as my poll is complete and has been for quite sometime.  I guess I could still make some adjustments as new information comes out in terms of transfers and such and I told many folks on this board I would wait to give any type of analysis until we got closer to the season.  Hell, schools are back in session in Marion County so I wouldn't be surprised if new faces continue to show up in new places as we get closer to the season.

I concede that about half of the teams on your list could give Warren a run but you were basing that solely off last year.  East Central and Crown Point had generational type teams for their respective schools and Warren had a down year.  That's not something I expect to continue this year.  I also will not concede on Chatard and even the most staunch insiders on here have mentioned Cathedral is a big unknown this year.

I'll give you Ben Davis, Center Grove, Snider and Carroll obviously, but that's where it stops for me in 2025.  

 

Edited August 1, 2024 by temptation

[psaboy]

19 hours ago, temptation said:

You’re drinking before sundown huh?

 

It's way to late to start drinking at 8:45/9:00 pm. JMO. 

[Komets2727]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

Despite being someone who has difficulty passing on any opportunity to take a dump on Notre Dame, I think this analogy misses slightly.  ND is among the most talented 10-15 teams in football annually but every team has the same pool of players and scholarship limits by which to abide.  

Warren annually has nearly 300 kids out for football and has a decisive enrollment advantage over nearly every other school in the state in that category.

I am not "following the rest" as my poll is complete and has been for quite sometime.  I guess I could still make some adjustments as new information comes out in terms of transfers and such and I told many folks on this board I would wait to give any type of analysis until we got closer to the season.  Hell, schools are back in session in Marion County so I wouldn't be surprised if new faces continue to show up in new places as we get closer to the season.

I concede that about half of the teams on your list could give Warren a run but you were basing that solely off last year.  East Central and Crown Point had generational type teams for their respective schools and Warren had a down year.  That's not something I expect to continue this year.  I also will not concede on Chatard and even the most staunch insiders on here have mentioned Cathedral is a big unknown this year.

I'll give you Ben Davis, Center Grove, Snider and Carroll obviously, but that's where it stops for me in 2025.  

 

Notre Dame is the most overrated team in college football every damn year. Top 5 recruiting class every year and it amounts to jack crap. 30+ years since a national title and let me assure you it will be at least another 30 years till another one.

Preseason rankings should be based on where teams finished the previous year unless there is a team with special circumstances, like a key player returning from injury, a boatload of proven transfers, etc… 

I will say this, Warren might go undefeated this year and win the state title, they might throttle Snider in week 1, and beat Ben Davis handily, but it won’t change how I feel about a team who was 0-7 against .500 or better teams last year and is given a top 5 ranking. It just won’t…

[temptation]

14 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

Notre Dame is the most overrated team in college football every damn year. Top 5 recruiting class every year and it amounts to jack crap. 30+ years since a national title and let me assure you it will be at least another 30 years till another one.

Preseason rankings should be based on where teams finished the previous year unless there is a team with special circumstances, like a key player returning from injury, a boatload of proven transfers, etc… 

I will say this, Warren might go undefeated this year and win the state title, they might throttle Snider in week 1, and beat Ben Davis handily, but it won’t change how I feel about a team who was 0-7 against .500 or better teams last year and is given a top 5 ranking. It just won’t…

So, based on your 2nd paragraph, you’ve got Michigan #1 in your preseason college football poll, huh?  

Go blue!

Also, based on your logic.

1.  Ben Davis

2.  Snider

3.  East Central

4.  Chatard

5.  Luers

6.  Lutheran

Right?

Edited August 2, 2024 by temptation