Temp’s Top 25 (Week 7)

[temptation]

1. Brownsburg
2. Westfield
3. Lawrence North
4. Crown Point
5. Indianapolis Cathedral
6. Center Grove
7. Hamilton Southeastern
8. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
9. Warren Central
10. New Palestine 
11. Bishop Chatard
12. Columbus North
13. Evansville Memorial
14. Decatur Central
15. Fishers
16. Fort Wayne Snider
17. Martinsville 
18. Roncalli
19. Concord
20. Lafayette Jefferson
21. Merrillville 
22. East Central 
23. Mishawaka 
24. Elkhart
25. Franklin Central

[BTF]

Wasn't expecting Warren to get blown out like they did. 

What is your fascination with New Pal? Strength of schedule leaves a lot to be desired. 

Is having Decatur Central ahead of Martinsville a typo?

[temptation]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

Wasn't expecting Warren to get blown out like they did. 

What is your fascination with New Pal? Strength of schedule leaves a lot to be desired. 

Is having Decatur Central ahead of Martinsville a typo?

1.  Not bragging but I think anyone with a pulse and lack of bias saw that LN/Warren game coming from a mile way.

2.  Maybe subconsciously I’m bumping New Pal.  Love their culture and coaching staff and I think they are as close to their late 2010s runs as they have been.  Making things look easy.

3.  Decatur Central (as mentioned elsewhere on the forum) is extremely polarizing and unpredictable.  They are a legit title contender one week and a head scratcher of a program a week later.  Their early season loss to CN was a surprise at the time but CN has turned out to be pretty damn good.  They had a brain fart against Martinsville but I think they win that game 7-8 out of 10 times.  Dare I call them “Brownsburg lite?”

Edited October 5, 2024 by temptation

[Just a dad]

3 hours ago, BTF said:

Wasn't expecting Warren to get blown out like they did. 

What is your fascination with New Pal? Strength of schedule leaves a lot to be desired. 

Is having Decatur Central ahead of Martinsville a typo?

According to Calpreps, New Pal has the second weakest strength of schedule in the Top 25. Come playoff time that will hurt them. Playing meaningful 4th quarter minutes prepares a team for pressure situations. 

[Komets2727]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

 

1. Brownsburg
2. Westfield
3. Lawrence North
4. Crown Point
5. Indianapolis Cathedral
6. Center Grove
7. Hamilton Southeastern
8. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
9. Warren Central
10. New Palestine 
11. Bishop Chatard
12. Columbus North
13. Evansville Memorial
14. Decatur Central
15. Fishers
16. Fort Wayne Snider
17. Martinsville 
18. Roncalli
19. Concord
20. Lafayette Jefferson
21. Merrillville 
22. East Central 
23. Mishawaka 
24. Elkhart
25. Franklin Central

I am with you thru your top 8, but after that, ugh. Warren is too high at 8, they were exposed as I said they would be all year long. Play a real team that will score on your defense, your done. Offense is awful, straight awful. New Pal too high, EM too high, DC too high, where is Warsaw who beat #23 Mishawaka last night?

[Bullhorn99]

18 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

According to Calpreps, New Pal has the second weakest strength of schedule in the Top 25. Come playoff time that will hurt them. Playing meaningful 4th quarter minutes prepares a team for pressure situations. 

Hasn’t New Pal’s schedule always been this weak? At least in the last decade or so. They’ve had some pretty good postseason success in spite of it.

[Just a dad]

Maybe so. But postseason success against your class doesn’t mean you would be good against higher classes. We all see what 5A looks like in Indiana most years. I’ve seen a few years where the 5A winner would struggle vs the 3A winner. The 4th best 4A team this year could probably make the 5A championship game this year and would likely win

[temptation]

18 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

I am with you thru your top 8, but after that, ugh. Warren is too high at 8, they were exposed as I said they would be all year long. Play a real team that will score on your defense, your done. Offense is awful, straight awful. New Pal too high, EM too high, DC too high, where is Warsaw who beat #23 Mishawaka last night?

On the door step.  The Plymouth loss gave me pause.  

[temptation]

27 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

I am with you thru your top 8, but after that, ugh. Warren is too high at 8, they were exposed as I said they would be all year long. Play a real team that will score on your defense, your done. Offense is awful, straight awful. New Pal too high, EM too high, DC too high, where is Warsaw who beat #23 Mishawaka last night?

You’re not wrong about Warren, I just cannot fathom any of those teams slotted right behind them to beat them head to head at this point.

I think there is a bit of a gap after Warren.

The real question is Fishers.  They look like a top ten team one week but have two head scratchers (Pike and FC).  I think they’d have the best shot at beating Warren out of those teams in the teens.

Edited October 5, 2024 by temptation

[MHSTigerFan]

38 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

I am with you thru your top 8, but after that, ugh. Warren is too high at 8, they were exposed as I said they would be all year long. Play a real team that will score on your defense, your done. Offense is awful, straight awful. New Pal too high, EM too high, DC too high, where is Warsaw who beat #23 Mishawaka last night?

How many teams have you (or temp) actually watched play?

I think somebody would have to watch (and watch carefully and analytically) all of the better ones to produce any kind of a useful ranked list of the best teams.

It’s even hard to do with the NFL - let alone an entire state’s HS teams.

Edited October 5, 2024 by MHSTigerFan

[MHSTigerFan]

21 minutes ago, Just a dad said:

Maybe so. But postseason success against your class doesn’t mean you would be good against higher classes. We all see what 5A looks like in Indiana most years. I’ve seen a few years where the 5A winner would struggle vs the 3A winner. The 4th best 4A team this year could probably make the 5A championship game this year and would likely win

Case in point.  I won’t argue with anybody who said that BD was the best team in the state last year.

But how many other teams, in any class, would’ve beaten the 4A champ East Central?  That was one helluva football team.

[Just a dad]

 

26 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

Case in point.  I won’t argue with anybody who said that BD was the best team in the state last year.

But how many other teams, in any class, would’ve beaten the 4A champ East Central?  That was one helluva football team.

Probably only Center Grove.  But you only needed to go to team #8 (Snider) to find a lower SoS than EC had. 

[Footballking16]

29 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

Case in point.  I won’t argue with anybody who said that BD was the best team in the state last year.

But how many other teams, in any class, would’ve beaten the 4A champ East Central?  That was one helluva football team.

Pretty sure Temp had East Central near the top all last year.

[temptation]

34 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

How many teams have you (or temp) actually watched play?

I think somebody would have to watch (and watch carefully and analytically) all of the better ones to produce any kind of a useful ranked list of the best teams.

It’s even hard to do with the NFL - let alone an entire state’s HS teams.

I channel flip weekly and watch parts of games to be honest.  It’s an impossible task, you are right.

No different that anyone who compiles a poll.

[MHSTigerFan]

10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Pretty sure Temp had East Central near the top all last year.

That comment wasn’t really directed at temp - or even at the idea of somebody having a Top 25 list.

It was just in response to the post about top teams from lower classes sometimes being better than top teams from higher ones.  And the success factor has probably had the effect of causing this more often.

[MHSTigerFan]

12 minutes ago, temptation said:

I channel flip weekly and watch parts of games to be honest.  It’s an impossible task, you are right.

No different that anyone who compiles a poll.

Fair enough.

I appreciate you doing it and trying as best you can to be informed about it.  It just seems like a really tough thing to pull off.  No worries.

[Komets2727]

58 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

How many teams have you (or temp) actually watched play?

I think somebody would have to watch (and watch carefully and analytically) all of the better ones to produce any kind of a useful ranked list of the best teams.

It’s even hard to do with the NFL - let alone an entire state’s HS teams.

I do my best to watch as many of the top teams as I can. I have watched every team in the top 20 at least one time, most more than that. Is it an exact science? No, I like to think I have a pretty good feel where teams are at

1 hour ago, temptation said:

On the door step.  The Plymouth loss gave me pause.  

Warsaw beating Mishawaka head to head should supersede that

[temptation]

1 minute ago, Komets2727 said:

I do my best to watch as many of the top teams as I can. I have watched every team in the top 20 at least one time, most more than that. Is it an exact science? No, I like to think I have a pretty good feel where teams are at

Warsaw beating Mishawaka head to head should supersede that

I mean Fishers lost to Pike and FC but beat HSE.

We could do this all day.

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, Just a dad said:

Maybe so. But postseason success against your class doesn’t mean you would be good against higher classes. We all see what 5A looks like in Indiana most years. I’ve seen a few years where the 5A winner would struggle vs the 3A winner. The 4th best 4A team this year could probably make the 5A championship game this year and would likely win

There have been cases of teams with very weak strength of schedule that were dominant in spite of a weak schedule

2023 4A East Central

2022 4A East Central

2019 5A New Palestine

2018 5A New Palestine 

2017 5A Columbus East

4A Columbus East

i could say (and I am sure many Columbus East fans will agree) Columbus East has had one of the weaker schedules (no fault of their own their conference just wasn’t good). They really only had Columbus North that was good. That didn’t stop them in 2017 smacking Cathedral 42-13 in Semi-State on their way to a State Championship. That 2017 Cathedral team had a very strong schedule (St. X KY, Detroit King, Pickerington Central OH, St. X OH, Ryle KY, St. Ed’s OH, Center Grove). It just did not matter Columbus East was that good. Even with Stepp healthy at RB Columbus East would have beat Cathedral. You knew they were going to run the ball on you and they did just that.

 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, Just a dad said:

I’ve seen a few years where the 5A winner would struggle vs the 3A winner. The 4th best 4A team this year could probably make the 5A championship game this year and would likely win

You're speaking highly of your beloved Chatard. I agree, there's been a few years where Chatard takes out the 5A winner. But 5A's top ten embarrasses 3A's top ten in head to head competition every year. 

1 hour ago, temptation said:

The real question is Fishers.  They look like a top ten team one week but have two head scratchers (Pike and FC).  I think they’d have the best shot at beating Warren out of those teams in the teens.

One week Fishers looks like they can give Brownsburg a run for the money, then lose to Carmel the next. 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, MHSTigerFan said:

But how many other teams, in any class, would’ve beaten the 4A champ East Central?  That was one helluva football team.

This is going to hurt some feelings, but East Central wouldn't have matched up well with last year's 5A champ. I know there's been a lot of talk about EC being the best non large division team of all time, but they would have struggled moving the ball last year against Snider. Also, New Pal had some great teams a few years back that could contend for "best smaller school of all time."

[MHSTigerFan]

22 minutes ago, BTF said:

This is going to hurt some feelings, but East Central wouldn't have matched up well with last year's 5A champ. I know there's been a lot of talk about EC being the best non large division team of all time, but they would have struggled moving the ball last year against Snider. Also, New Pal had some great teams a few years back that could contend for "best smaller school of all time."

EC had a common opponent with Ben Davis and Center Grove:  Moeller.

EC put up 38 against them and beat them pretty comfortably (38-28).  Ben Davis thumped Moeller.  But CG needed OT to win by 1.

I can’t say I watched Snider.  But they barely survived (19-18) a Mishawaka team that had played Northwood to OT.

EC beat Northwood in the state finals:  42-14.

Last year’s EC team was one of the best blocking HS football teams I’ve ever seen play.  Pretty much every play they ran was executed flawlessly by all 11 guys.  And nobody they played was even able to slow their offense down.

Edited October 5, 2024 by MHSTigerFan

[BTF]

I get what your saying about the Moeller comparison. I'm just going by what I saw in person at the state finals. I think EC was too one dimensional to light up the scoreboard against Snider. I see it as a 17-14 type game in either direction. Snider's only game on grass last year was against Mishawaka, so take that for what it's worth. I noticed some footing issues with Snider's offensive players. Also, Snider utterly obliterated Mishawaka's ground attack like no other team had done all season. Take Snider's red zone turnover and a couple of large chunk plays that the Cavemen generated with passes over the top, and you have the makings of a game that came down to wire. It's hard to ignore the fact that Snider kept both Merrillville and Decatur Central out of the endzone. 

Look, all I've heard since Cathedral left and Snider took their place in 5A was how week that division is. I don't mind defending the Panthers when given the opportunity. 

[MHSTigerFan]

One pretty incredible stat about that EC team.

Josh Ringer touched the ball a total of 292 times: 279 rushes and 13 receptions.  He scored 60 touchdowns - or one for every 4.87 times he had possession of the ball.

Ringer was a very, very good talent on his own.  But the way that team blocked was just….well, I’d never personally seen anything quite like it.

Edited October 5, 2024 by MHSTigerFan

[BTF]

22 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

One pretty incredible stat about that EC team.

Josh Ringer touched the ball a total of 292 times: 279 rushes and 13 receptions.  He scored 60 touchdowns - or one for every 4.87 times he had possession of the ball.

Ringer was a very, very good talent on his own.  But the way that team blocked was just….well, I’d never personally seen anything quite like it.

I get what you're saying, that offense was a well oiled machine. Good team for sure, and it's understandable why so many people were impressed with them last year. The Moeller game was an eye opener. I think I'll just stop at congratulating them on their 4A state title and give them props for being one of the best five teams in the state last year regardless of class.