Temp’s Top 25 (Week 8)

[temptation]

1. Lawrence North
2. Brownsburg
3. Westfield 
4. Crown Point
5. Indianapolis Cathedral
6. Center Grove
7. Warren Central
8. New Palestine
9. Bishop Chatard 
10. Hamilton Southeastern 
11. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
12. Evansville Memorial
13. Columbus North
14. Fort Wayne Snider
15. East Central
16. Franklin Central
17. Martinsville
18. Decatur Central
19. Merrillville
20. Lafayette Jefferson
21. Concord
22. Mishawaka 
23. Elkhart
24. Heritage Hills
25. Fishers

[BLACKGOLD2007]

LN has had an amazing 3 week stretch. 

I know BD is down, but still a huge win against a traditional power. A blowout against an undefeated Warren Central. Then beating Center Grove by 13. 

Keep it up Wildcats

[temptation]

19 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

LN has had an amazing 3 week stretch. 

I know BD is down, but still a huge win against a traditional power. A blowout against an undefeated Warren Central. Then beating Center Grove by 13. 

Keep it up Wildcats

And the CG final score looks closer than it actually was.

[BTF]

21 minutes ago, temptation said:

And the CG final score looks closer than it actually was.

Agree, that was a blowout. 

Poll looks good, I still think New Pal is too high. They haven't beaten anyone to garner Top 10 credibility. Sorry. The Sagarin guys are will disagree with me, but look no further than where he has East Noble ranked. For the love of God, I hope you're not using Sagarin as a source. 

[temptation]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

Agree, that was a blowout. 

Poll looks good, I still think New Pal is too high. They haven't beaten anyone to garner Top 10 credibility. Sorry. The Sagarin guys are will disagree with me, but look no further than where he has East Noble ranked. For the love of God, I hope you're not using Sagarin as a source. 

Nope, but I will say I have East Noble on my “first five out” list.

As far as New Pal, I’m just gonna continue to believe and reward winning, especially comfortably.

After FC beat HSE last night, that turned teams after the top 7 upside down.  Can’t put Carroll ahead of HSE.  Gotta drop the Royals somewhere.  New Pal and Chatard are beneficiary.

Edited October 12, 2024 by temptation

[Footballking16]

LN definitely has the “IT” factor but Brownsburg has beaten (and played) better teams according to your top 25. I’d still have Brownsburg at 1 but think those two have definitely separated themselves from the rest of the field. 

[temptation]

8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

LN definitely has the “IT” factor but Brownsburg has beaten (and played) better teams according to your top 25. I’d still have Brownsburg at 1 but think those two have definitely separated themselves from the rest of the field. 

The irony and amount of “self own” than an LN (MIC) 6A state title would provide to my HCC narrative would be nearly impossible to recover from.

A fifth MIC (original 8) school grabbing a 6A state title before an HCC team breaks through would be rich as hell.

[BTF]

3 hours ago, temptation said:

Nope, but I will say I have East Noble on my “first five out” list.

As far as New Pal, I’m just gonna continue to believe and reward winning, especially comfortably.

After FC beat HSE last night, that turned teams after the top 7 upside down.  Can’t put Carroll ahead of HSE.  Gotta drop the Royals somewhere.  New Pal and Chatard are beneficiary.

So if your life depended on it, you bet on New Pal beating HSE? If my life were on the line, I'm taking the Royals. 

[temptation]

Just now, BTF said:

So if your life depended on it, you bet on New Pal beating HSE? If my life were on the line, I'm taking the Royals. 

Me too.  But winning games matters.  New Pal has been doing it with ease, HSE hasn’t.

Now that could all change next Friday night as the Royals have a tremendous opportunity in front of them.

I mean, Ben Davis is 3-5, which is clearly undeserving of being ranked in the top 25 but if you ask me to match up the Giants against any of the teams ranked 8-25, I am probably taking them 50+% of the time.

[BTF]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

Me too.  But winning games matters.  New Pal has been doing it with ease, HSE hasn’t.

Now that could all change next Friday night as the Royals have a tremendous opportunity in front of them.

I mean, Ben Davis is 3-5, which is clearly undeserving of being ranked in the top 25 but if you ask me to match up the Giants against any of the teams ranked 8-25, I am probably taking them 50+% of the time.

Strength of schedule matters too, does it not? 

Hard for me to argue your point on Ben Davis. But I'm not betting on them beating Chatard, HSE, or Carroll. They'd be a flip of the coin against Snider or Merrillville. Yes, Merrillville. I do like their chances against most of the other teams though. 

If you want to know why I still have decent regard for Snider, it's because I still think they have one of the best defenses in the state. It could keep them in most games outside of your Top 7. 

[temptation]

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

Strength of schedule matters too, does it not? 

Hard for me to argue your point on Ben Davis. But I'm not betting on them beating Chatard, HSE, or Carroll. They'd be a flip of the coin against Snider or Merrillville. Yes, Merrillville. I do like their chances against most of the other teams though. 

If you want to know why I still have decent regard for Snider, it's because I still think they have one of the best defenses in the state. It could keep them in most games outside of your Top 7. 

Oh, zero doubt SOS matters but when presented with opportunities against the best teams on your schedule you have to show up and win some of those games.

Its the reason this poll is usually reserved for 4A, 5A and 6A teams with the occasional 3A team sprinkled in.

[Boilernation]

I think I Eddie Mushed the Royals after the Carroll game. I was high on them after that game. The HCC is a headscratcher to me this year outside of Westfield and Brownsburg. No idea how the FC team I saw at Zionsivlle was able to beat Fishers and HSE. I have no issues with New Pal in the Top 10. They're like Crown Point to me. We know the schedule sucks. But, we know there is a lot of talent there and Elite level coaching. It's hard to bet against Kyle Ralph. 

 

[Komets2727]

5 hours ago, temptation said:

 

1. Lawrence North
2. Brownsburg
3. Westfield 
4. Crown Point
5. Indianapolis Cathedral
6. Center Grove
7. Warren Central
8. New Palestine
9. Bishop Chatard 
10. Hamilton Southeastern 
11. Carroll (Fort Wayne)
12. Evansville Memorial
13. Columbus North
14. Fort Wayne Snider
15. East Central
16. Franklin Central
17. Martinsville
18. Decatur Central
19. Merrillville
20. Lafayette Jefferson
21. Concord
22. Mishawaka 
23. Elkhart
24. Heritage Hills
25. Fishers

I would flip Brownsburg and LN as Brownsburg has played a tougher schedule so far from what I see. Maybe it evens out soon. Starting at #8 is where I see issues. How many of these 4A and 5A teams you really believe are better than HSE, Carroll, Snider, Franklin Central, Fishers, Carmel, and Ben Davis? Yes, you should reward wins, but you still have to be realistic. I see both sides of the story, but I know for example if New PAL and Ben Davis played, I got BD by double digits

[temptation]

29 minutes ago, Komets2727 said:

I would flip Brownsburg and LN as Brownsburg has played a tougher schedule so far from what I see. Maybe it evens out soon. Starting at #8 is where I see issues. How many of these 4A and 5A teams you really believe are better than HSE, Carroll, Snider, Franklin Central, Fishers, Carmel, and Ben Davis? Yes, you should reward wins, but you still have to be realistic. I see both sides of the story, but I know for example if New PAL and Ben Davis played, I got BD by double digits

Can’t disagree on your schedule strength argument and I know this is an exercise in futility but Brownsburg has now “escaped” what turned out to be fraudulent teams in Noblesville and Fishers whereas LN has been in firm control of every game in which it has taken the field.

I know that margin of victory is often criticized when comparing teams but I don’t think it can be ignored either.

In fact, (and I don’t have the stats in front of me) I’m not sure LN has trailed AT ALL at any point in a game this season.

As for your other point, it also has some truth to it but head to head sorta becomes one of many data points the later we get into the season.  I mean, there are countless examples of teams in this poll that have an out of body experience (in either direction) one week and return to the norm the following.

Edited October 12, 2024 by temptation

[BTF]

43 minutes ago, temptation said:

Can’t disagree on your schedule strength argument and I know this is an exercise in futility but Brownsburg has now “escaped” what turned out to be fraudulent teams in Noblesville and Fishers whereas LN has been in firm control of every game in which it has taken the field.

I know that margin of victory is often criticized when comparing teams but I don’t think it can be ignored either.

In fact, (and I don’t have the stats in front of me) I’m not sure LN has trailed AT ALL at any point in a game this season.

As for your other point, it also has some truth to it but head to head sorta becomes one of many data points the later we get into the season.  I mean, there are countless examples of teams in this poll that have an out of body experience (in either direction) one week and return to the norm the following.

I wanna say that North Side jumped out to a 7-0 lead against LN. Going off memory here, I'm pretty sure, not positive. I think you'd find that Noblesville and Fishers are pretty strong when not faced with the constant grind of Central Indiana. 

[FastpacedO]

1 hour ago, Komets2727 said:

I would flip Brownsburg and LN as Brownsburg has played a tougher schedule so far from what I see. Maybe it evens out soon. Starting at #8 is where I see issues. How many of these 4A and 5A teams you really believe are better than HSE, Carroll, Snider, Franklin Central, Fishers, Carmel, and Ben Davis? Yes, you should reward wins, but you still have to be realistic. I see both sides of the story, but I know for example if New PAL and Ben Davis played, I got BD by double digits

Carroll lost to HSE

HSE and Fishers lost to Franklin Central

Franklin Central was down 13-10 at halftime to Roncalli before the game was cancelled due to lightning 

Carmel lost to Brebeuf Jesuit

Ben Davis hasn’t been the best this year.

i think New Pal, Chatard, Ev Memorial would do just fine. Still want to see what Memorial does outside of their conference so I’m not totally sure in them.

[BTF]

19 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

Carroll lost to HSE

HSE and Fishers lost to Franklin Central

Franklin Central was down 13-10 at halftime to Roncalli before the game was cancelled due to lightning 

Carmel lost to Brebeuf Jesuit

Ben Davis hasn’t been the best this year.

i think New Pal, Chatard, Ev Memorial would do just fine. Still want to see what Memorial does outside of their conference so I’m not totally sure in them.

Not buying your analogy on this one. Snider crushed Warren Central last year, Ben Davis beat them by three. Didn't necessarily make Snider the best team in the state. Chatard? Sure. New Pal? No thanks. No opinion on Memorial. 

 

[temptation]

8 minutes ago, BTF said:

Not buying your analogy on this one. Snider crushed Warren Central last year, Ben Davis beat them by three. Didn't necessarily make Snider the best team in the state. Chatard? Sure. New Pal? No thanks. No opinion on Memorial. 

 

How many times do I have to rehash the Warren/BD game from last year?

[FastpacedO]

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

Not buying your analogy on this one. Snider crushed Warren Central last year, Ben Davis beat them by three. Didn't necessarily make Snider the best team in the state. Chatard? Sure. New Pal? No thanks. No opinion on Memorial. 

 

You missed the point.

Roncalli can hang with Franklin Central why couldn’t Chatard? Why couldn’t Chatard hang with Fishers or HSE?

If Brebeuf Jesuit can beat Carmel I have no doubt Chatard or New Palestine could beat them.

its been very obvious you have an axe to grind with New Pal. They are a very good team regardless of their schedule. They have one of the top coaches in the State too who has only lost 12 games in his 12 years of coaching. Their schedule this year is no different than it has always been.

I won’t even talk about the BD/WC rivalry, you won’t get it until you attend a few of them.

[BTF]

9 minutes ago, temptation said:

How many times do I have to rehash the Warren/BD game from last year?

Rivalry game? Bla, bla, bla. You have to admit, Carroll, who lost to HSE, who lost to Franklin Central, who was down to Roncalli, is just a bunch of nonsense. 

[FastpacedO]

17 minutes ago, BTF said:

Rivalry game? Bla, bla, bla. You have to admit, Carroll, who lost to HSE, who lost to Franklin Central, who was down to Roncalli, is just a bunch of nonsense. 

You’re still missing the point clearly. Nowhere did anyone say Chatard, New Pal, or Ev Memorial are best in the State. It was questioned then being where they are below the top 8 and those other teams ahead of them Carmel lost to Brebeuf I see no reason Chatard wouldn’t beat them.

If Roncalli can hang with Franklin Central I have no doubt Chatard could so they are perfectly fine being in spot 8 and 9 respectively. You’ve made it way more than it was.

[Boilerup]

Really respect temp and his rankings , spot on in a lot of cases.  Not to many gave CP a chance last year and guess what , they made it and got blown out ! You can’t win it unless you’ve been there.  Don’t sleep on the dogs , teams have been jumping them in rankings for what ever reason.  I think 6A is up in the air for any team to win ! Noblesville went into Brownsburg and ran power at them and ate the clock and showed a weakness!  Center Grove plays the hardest schedule. Westfield is way better than they were last year.  Warren can win on defense.  Lawerence is scary good . 
Very hard to pick a number one with so many good teams in the Indy area . I am a cp fan , hope we can make it again and make it a competitive game.

[Rodney]

11 hours ago, temptation said:

The irony and amount of “self own” than an LN (MIC) 6A state title would provide to my HCC narrative would be nearly impossible to recover from.

A fifth MIC (original 😎 school grabbing a 6A state title before an HCC team breaks through would be rich as hell.

been telling you for years now the hcc doesn't get to lay claim to being #1 till they win something

[BTF]

4 hours ago, FastpacedO said:

its been very obvious you have an axe to grind with New Pal. 

I have an axe to grind because I won't consider small school New Pal as a Top 10 team? My stance on New Pal hasn't changed in a decade. Arguably the best program in the state pound for pound. One of the best coaches in the state. Respect all the way. The largest schools in the state dominate the Top 10, that's not a slight on the Dragons.  New Pal hasn't beaten anyone this year. No way this tiny school should be considered for the Top 10. Too much stock is being put into the Sagarin ratings, and posters on this forum are buying into it. I'm not. I might change my mind after Thanksgiving weekend. But right now, I've got them closer to 20. 

Edited October 13, 2024 by BTF

[FastpacedO]

43 minutes ago, BTF said:

I have an axe to grind because I won't consider small school New Pal as a Top 10 team? My stance on New Pal hasn't changed in a decade. Arguably the best program in the state pound for pound. One of the best coaches in the state. Respect all the way. The largest schools in the state dominate the Top 10, that's not a slight on the Dragons.  New Pal hasn't beaten anyone this year. No way this tiny school should be considered for the Top 10. Too much stock is being put into the Sagarin ratings, and posters on this forum are buying into it. I'm not. I might change my mind after Thanksgiving weekend. But right now, I've got them closer to 20. 

I don’t use sagarin and never brought up sagarin. I have watched New Pal play this year. I watched them in previous years when that tiny school played well above their class and beat 6A Center Grove and even the year they went toe to toe with Snider in 5A. 
They are a top notch 4A program with coaching and a weight program that rivals most 6A schools. They are a good football team better than Chatard will remain to be seen in the playoffs.