363, 362, & 361

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

I agree that most of the teams on my list were eliminated midway through the season, but even if a team has a 1% chance in Week 1, I think they are worth a mention. 

I'm not convinced on your "one off" theory. I think you'll see Carroll, Crown Point, or Penn back down at Lucas sooner than later. The gap has closed. Maybe it will take a small downtick in talent at Carmel and Westfield. I think the biggest threat to the North at this point is Kevin Wright and Carmel. Hard not to find a massive offensive line, which is what it takes in 6A, at an enrollment school like Carmel. In fact, the more I think about, maybe the forementioned schools won't get there sooner than later. Wright is going to build a machine at Carmel. 

The gap has closed based on what data?

Westfield and Brownsburg continue to grow at a pretty consistent rate.

Wright at Carmel is going to be a problem annually as you mentioned.

Center Grove is the intriguing one to me as who knows how many years Moore has left.  Who is chosen as his successor will be massively important.

I think Crown Point and Carroll will also continue to improve, no doubt but I’m not sure it’s gonna matter.

Edited November 25, 2025 by temptation

[23andCounting]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

1. The gap has closed based on what data?

2. Westfield and Brownsburg continue to grow at a pretty consistent rate.

Wright at Carmel is going to be a problem annually as you mentioned.

3. Center Grove is the intriguing one to me as who knows how many years Moore has left.  Who is chosen as his successor will be massively important.

4. I think Crown Point and Carroll will also continue to improve, no doubt but I’m not sure it’s gonna matter.

1. "Show me." Five good wins since then. 

2. Carroll is growing as well. 

3. Agree.

4. If they improve, it will matter. You don't think Westfield and Brownsburg have hit their ceiling? We know Carmel hasn't, but who knows how long Wright will stay put. 

 

 

[temptation]

10 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

1. "Show me." Five good wins since then. 

2. Carroll is growing as well. 

3. Agree.

4. If they improve, it will matter. You don't think Westfield and Brownsburg have hit their ceiling? We know Carmel hasn't, but who knows how long Wright will stay put. 

 

 

I do not think Westfield nor Brownsburg have come even close to hitting their ceiling.  Brownsburg is expanding and is making room for 4000+ students in its high school building.  Westfield is the fastest growing city in Indiana and maybe even the midwest.  They are in the process of building 2 new elementary schools and a new middle school.  Things are just getting started for these two programs.

[23andCounting]

30 minutes ago, temptation said:

I do not think Westfield nor Brownsburg have come even close to hitting their ceiling.  Brownsburg is expanding and is making room for 4000+ students in its high school building.  Westfield is the fastest growing city in Indiana and maybe even the midwest.  They are in the process of building 2 new elementary schools and a new middle school.  Things are just getting started for these two programs.

At some point 6A is going to have to go to 16 teams. The gap between the top and the bottom basically says, "sorry, you smaller schools are only here to add to our trophy cases."

[US31]

14 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

At some point 6A is going to have to go to 16 teams. The gap between the top and the bottom basically says, "sorry, you smaller schools are only here to add to our trophy cases."

Its actually more homogeneous than it used to be....20 years ago it was a handful of MIC schools that were at that far top end.  Now there are several MIC, HCC, Far north schools all well above 3k and some at or north of 4k. 

Carmel at 5000+ is the real outlier.

[23andCounting]

Fishers at 3800 vs Northrop at 2200 isn't an outlier?

[US31]

I'm just saying....its no where near as bad as it used to be.

[temptation]

40 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Fishers at 3800 vs Northrop at 2200 isn't an outlier?

I'll duck on the way out but the 1600 student difference listed above is only part of the story.

Fishers is amongst the most affluent cities in Indiana/the midwest.  Comparing that to a school like Northrop is unfair as they not only have an enrollment disadvantage but also a socioeconomic disadvantage.

You stated earlier that this was one of the most successful seasons in Northrop football history, yet they were still bounced early in dominating fashion.

If I have said it once, I have said it a million times.  If you have a significant enrollment disadvantage, you'd better have a significant socioeconomic advantage.  Not having either is a death knell which is what we see at the bottom of 6A (and every other class for the most part).  Its purgatory.

Edited November 25, 2025 by temptation

[23andCounting]

16 minutes ago, temptation said:

I'll duck on the way out but the 1600 student difference listed above is only part of the story.

Fishers is amongst the most affluent cities in Indiana/the midwest.  Comparing that to a school like Northrop is unfair as they not only have an enrollment disadvantage but also a socioeconomic disadvantage.

You stated earlier that this was one of the most successful seasons in Northrop football history, yet they were still bounced early in dominating fashion.

If I have said it once, I have said it a million times.  If you have a significant enrollment disadvantage, you'd better have a significant socioeconomic advantage.  Not having either is a death knell which is what we see at the bottom of 6A (and every other class for the most part).  Its purgatory.

You won't be ducking from me as you're 100% spot on. Kudos for being the first to bring this topic to our attention. It took me about 6 months to process, but I'm fully on board. I'd also point out that the best coaches are probably drawn to the large suburban schools first, then programs like Warren Central and Ben Davis second. That pretty much leaves schools like Northrop to hope to find that diamond in the rough. 

[foxbat]

On 11/25/2025 at 12:35 PM, temptation said:

I do not think Westfield nor Brownsburg have come even close to hitting their ceiling.  Brownsburg is expanding and is making room for 4000+ students in its high school building.  Westfield is the fastest growing city in Indiana and maybe even the midwest.  They are in the process of building 2 new elementary schools and a new middle school.  Things are just getting started for these two programs.

This makes the assumption that they won't split schools though, right?  Case in point, go back and look at Plano in Texas or schools like Mesquite which were north Texas powerhouses back in the 70s/80s.  A major issue back in the day were that schools like those looked like Carmel does compared to the rest.  Today, Plano, for example, has six 9th/10th high schools that feed three 11th/12th grade high schools, whereas in the past it was just Plano High School.  Mesquite has five high schools when back in the day it was just Mesquite and then, eventually, North Mesquite opened up around the early 70s.  Those schools dominated when they were singular entities.  They are still strong programs, but not like the old days when the mention of Dallas pretty much meant the four horseman with Plano, Mesquite, Highland Park, and Richardson.

[psaboy]

On 11/24/2025 at 9:08 AM, 23andCounting said:

"364 more days of delusion, excuse making and claims that the true north is “knocking on the door.”

Day 364: See Semi-State Scores thread

Day 363: Carroll returns their QB, and a good one at that. Give Dinan a good QB and they'll always be in the state title conversation. 

Day 362: Something tells me that Pete Riordan is just getting started. If his program improves for the third year in a row, they'll give the HCC a run for their money on the way to Lucas.

Day 361: Crown Point. Craig Buzea. Nothing more to say. 

@temptation The North is on solid ground. I can do this 360 more times if you'd like. 

My question is will Snider right the ship next year??

[Rodney]

Can we get an update on the last few days

[US31]

10 minutes ago, foxbat said:

This makes the assumption that they won't split schools though, right?  Case in point, go back and look at Plano in Texas or schools like Mesquite which were north Texas powerhouses back in the 70s/80s.  A major issue back in the day were that schools like those looked like Carmel does compared to the rest.  Today, Plano, for example, has six 9th/10th high schools that feed three 11th/12th grade high schools, whereas in the past it was just Plano High School.  Mesquite has five high schools when back in the day it was just Mesquite and then, eventually, North Mesquite opened up around the early 70s.  Those schools dominated when they were singular entities.  They are still strong programs, but not like the old days when the mention of Dallas pretty much meant the four horseman with Plano, Mesquite, Highland Park, and Richardson.

Outside of Fishers/HSE that have already split…I am not familiar with a single HCC school having serious admin discussions about splitting.   The cost to fund “equal” admin and extra curriculum programs is WAY up into 7 figures per year.  This is often the reason cited for no split.   It is by far more economical to have one really big high school than multiple “pretty big” high schools.  And as long as you have a nearby peer of 5000+ …there is even less desire.

 

full disclosure: I am on record as saying the sweet spot for high school size is probably around 2000-2500 kids.  This is mainly for academic and quality of life issues.  But economically in the current school funding climate….its just not gonna happen.

[23andCounting]

16 minutes ago, psaboy said:

My question is will Snider right the ship next year??

Regional good next year, state good the year after. An opinion based light/medium information. 

[psaboy]

3 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Regional good next year, state good the year after. An opinion based light/medium information. 

I know they drop down to 5A next year. Rough year this past year. I've been locked out of forum since September, finally got back in today. 

[23andCounting]

6 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I know they drop down to 5A next year. Rough year this past year. I've been locked out of forum since September, finally got back in today. 

You didn't miss much. A few highlights that you missed:

Head to the Next Level for some excellent banter between @temptation and @Bash Riprock. 

Some great conversation after Carroll "outhit" Center Grove. 

Good build up to the 6A North semi-state game. Indy burbs tied the four year score at two apiece. So the offseason will be fun discussing the rubber match. 

[GOLDRUSH1985]

Both Penn and Carroll return very good QB's that should be near the top of 6A talent wise . The Carroll QB is a better runner of the two . 

[Donnie Baker]

On 11/25/2025 at 12:35 PM, temptation said:

I do not think Westfield nor Brownsburg have come even close to hitting their ceiling.  Brownsburg is expanding and is making room for 4000+ students in its high school building.  Westfield is the fastest growing city in Indiana and maybe even the midwest.  They are in the process of building 2 new elementary schools and a new middle school.  Things are just getting started for these two programs.

I remember when West Fields and Hamilton Southeastern were in 1A. 

[Komets2727]

10 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

Regional good next year, state good the year after. An opinion based light/medium information. 

I would likely agree with this statement as of today, but with the open transfer rules who really knows from year to year. 

[23andCounting]

8 hours ago, Komets2727 said:

I would likely agree with this statement as of today, but with the open transfer rules who really knows from year to year. 

Is building a program even necessary anymore? Bad coaches can suddenly look good overnight if they can convince some good players to come play for their team. 

[Komets2727]

10 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

Is building a program even necessary anymore? Bad coaches can suddenly look good overnight if they can convince some good players to come play for their team. 

High school NIL at its finest… don’t fool yourself that it isn’t happening cuz it is…