Should Notre Dame Join a Conference?

[Bobref]

4 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

does the P4 plus ND pull away and establish their own governance??

People have been predicting that for years. I wonder why it hasn’t happened yet.

[US31]

The rest of athletics at ND should have joined Men's Hockey in the B1G a long time ago.  When we used the "traditional" bowls mechanism it was economically advantageous (no revenue sharing)...when football was only broadcast over national tv networks (National NBC broadcast every homegame)....it was advantageous.  Those days are long gone. 

You can make an argument the lack of revenue sharing is helpful with paying out NIL...but ND doesn't take full advantage of the portal anyway....if they did they'd return to juggernaught status.

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, US31 said:

The rest of athletics at ND should have joined Men's Hockey in the B1G a long time ago. 

The only reason hockey is in the B1G is that ACC schools do not compete in hockey.

I purposefully left the “other sports” issue out of my analysis. There are other issues as well, as this would be a really complex decision for the University. There’s no hope of covering them all here. Way too many moving parts that we know next to nothing about. So, I stuck with football.

[Bash Riprock]

2 hours ago, US31 said:

You can make an argument the lack of revenue sharing is helpful with paying out NIL...but ND doesn't take full advantage of the portal anyway....if they did they'd return to juggernaught status.

that's an interesting comment and perhaps you are right.  But I also have to wonder if that is the case given academic requirements.  My paradigm (perhaps an incorrect stereotype) is that the vast majority of players entering the portal (especially repeatedly) are not focused on academics.  If that is accurate, does that put schools like ND and Stanford at a disadvantage?  It feels (I may be way off) that Vandy has recently sacrificed academics with the improvement of their football program.  I absolutely acknowledge there are players that enter the portal after earning degress, such as Fernando Mendoza did earning his BS in business from Cal.  There has to be a number like him that ND could absolutely target that could fill in gaps for a year or two.  

Edited January 8 by Bash Riprock

[Komets2727]

2-3 years from now, the NCAA as we know it will be gone. I look forward to the Power 4 to establish and regulate itself, with or without the NCAA. Right now, it is the Wild West as there is zero regulation 

[PDB26]

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

People have been predicting that for years. I wonder why it hasn’t happened yet.

I think it’s because athlete employment is the necessary condition to a hypothetical P4 breakaway.  

[Bobref]

13 minutes ago, PDB26 said:

I think it’s because athlete employment is the necessary condition to a hypothetical P4 breakaway.  

@Irishman has predicted that, on the horizon, private equity firms will move in, and teams will have only loose affiliation with a University. In other words, the end of education based athletics at the FBS level.

[US31]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

The only reason hockey is in the B1G is that ACC schools do not compete in hockey.

I purposefully left the “other sports” issue out of my analysis. There are other issues as well, as this would be a really complex decision for the University. There’s no hope of covering them all here. Way too many moving parts that we know next to nothing about. So, I stuck with football.

No argument from me on your post....its lays it all out well.  I just don't see a reason for ND to remain in the ACC in any sport if football joins MHKY in the B1G.

[US31]

59 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

that's an interesting comment and perhaps you are right.  But I also have to wonder if that is the case given academic requirements.  My paradigm (perhaps an incorrect stereotype) is that the vast majority of players entering the portal (especially repeatedly) are not focused on academics.  If that is accurate, does that put schools like ND and Stanford at a disadvantage?  It feels (I may be way off) that Vandy has recently sacrificed academics with the improvement of their football program.  I absolutely acknowledge there are players that enter the portal after earning degress, such as Fernando Mendoza did earning his BS in business from Cal.  There has to be a number like him that ND could absolutely target that could fill in gaps for a year or two.  

My point isn't an argument with Bob.  But, as he describes very well in his initial post....the goal at ND (going WAAAAAAAY back) it to win the Natty.  Which is why they said..."well finals aren't as important as winning the Natty, so lets just go to bowl games if we have to" back in the late 60s.  If the goal is a national championship, taking full advantage of the portal will need to become part of that.  They have relaxed some things on incoming transfers in recent years.

If they would accept kids with 24 credits and a C average, that would open the doors to a MUCH larger selection of potential transferees that could help them win the big trophy.

As our old team Dr used to tell us in college....."You know what they call people who get C's in Medical School!?!?!..........Doctors"😇

[Bash Riprock]

24 minutes ago, US31 said:

My point isn't an argument with Bob.  But, as he describes very well in his initial post....the goal at ND (going WAAAAAAAY back) it to win the Natty.  Which is why they said..."well finals aren't as important as winning the Natty, so lets just go to bowl games if we have to" back in the late 60s.  If the goal is a national championship, taking full advantage of the portal will need to become part of that.  They have relaxed some things on incoming transfers in recent years.

If they would accept kids with 24 credits and a C average, that would open the doors to a MUCH larger selection of potential transferees that could help them win the big trophy.

As our old team Dr used to tell us in college....."You know what they call people who get C's in Medical School!?!?!..........Doctors"😇

I didn't take your post as an argument with Bob and I am agreeing with you on the need of the portal.  I am just wondering if ND would follow Vanderbilt's route (assuming I am correct) in taking C students, or would their academic standards prohibit this, resulting in a much smaller % of applicable transfer portal players?  My guess is schools like Stanford is in the same place.  Are they at a crossroads with the changing game to consider things they once would have never done...such as lower academic performance for transfer portal players, joining a conference, etc.?

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, US31 said:

No argument from me on your post....its lays it all out well.  I just don't see a reason for ND to remain in the ACC in any sport if football joins MHKY in the B1G.

100%

[US31]

18 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

I didn't take your post as an argument with Bob and I am agreeing with you on the need of the portal.  I am just wondering if ND would follow Vanderbilt's route (assuming I am correct) in taking C students, or would their academic standards prohibit this, resulting in a much smaller % of applicable transfer portal players?  My guess is schools like Stanford is in the same place.  Are they at a crossroads with the changing game to consider things they once would have never done...such as lower academic performance for transfer portal players, joining a conference, etc.?

This is probably a Bob question....but I don't think currently they take C students....I "think" a portal transfer has to have something like a 3.0 and a full year of college credits. If I was a coach, I'd be more picky about the character of a portal kid than his exact GPA.  Fairly recently I beleive ND transferees had to have mulitple years of credits and the GPA.  But I'm not an expert on that.

Now...how you quatify "character"??.....who knows.   Probably the old, "I know it when I see it". 

[Sparty]

On 1/8/2026 at 1:02 PM, Bobref said:

@Irishman has predicted that, on the horizon, private equity firms will move in, and teams will have only loose affiliation with a University. In other words, the end of education based athletics at the FBS level.

“Education based” athletics has been gone for years.  

[Coach Nowlin]

On 1/8/2026 at 1:02 PM, Bobref said:

@Irishman has predicted that, on the horizon, private equity firms will move in, and teams will have only loose affiliation with a University. In other words, the end of education based athletics at the FBS level.

right church wrong pew, but yes 

 

we probably tagged teamed it 

[Coach Nowlin]

 

 

[Bobref]

31 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

 

 

You think Notre Dame is at a crossroads now?

[gonzoron]

42 minutes ago, Bobref said:

You think Notre Dame is at a crossroads now?

That video is over a year old and doesn’t look like he’s found anyone selling.

[Irishman]

19 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

That video is over a year old and doesn’t look like he’s found anyone selling.

Someone had to go first. Utah went this route with Otro Capital, a private equity firm investing in the range of $500 Million up front. Others like Utah, if they want to take a chance at reaching the playoff, programs will have to consider following suit, maybe not with Lasry, but with someone. 

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

You think Notre Dame is at a crossroads now?

I think the NIL coop in place, they are fine. I think a handful of teams are good to go as they are. I think it's the teams outside the top 16 that will take the leap. 

[23andCounting]

3 hours ago, Sparty said:

“Education based” athletics has been gone for years.  

That's kind of the beauty of Notre Dame. Kids still go there for the education. Everyone wants to hate Notre Dame for opting out of a bowl game. But no one wants to like them for being one of the few football programs where kids also come for the education. Fans have their priorities screwed up. 

[Sparty]

2 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

That's kind of the beauty of Notre Dame. Kids still go there for the education. Everyone wants to hate Notre Dame for opting out of a bowl game. But no one wants to like them for being one of the few football programs where kids also come for the education. Fans have their priorities screwed up. 

100%!

[23andCounting]

3 minutes ago, Sparty said:

100%!

It truly is a bizarre world that we live in. 

[Alduflux]

A bunch of good dialogue here.  My observations:

Notre Dame football is an asset.  It currently has significant value.  So long as that continues to be true (and it likely will), they can join any conference whenever they want.  Additionally, each conference is competing against one another.  Because of this, each conference will appease ND to make sure they don't join a competing conference.  This means the P4 will agree to scheduling agreements (and playoff agreements) to prevent ND from joining a competitor.  

ND has the ability to maintain independence in the current landscape of college football.  That landscape will change significantly over the next decade, as the ACC will likely have massive defections before 2036.

There may come a day when ND is given an ultimatum to join with the big boys or be left out.  That day is not now.

I agree with the OP, that the B1G is the conference they should join, when they join.  However, from an ND centric viewpoint, their backs are not against the wall, and they can continue to navigate independence as they have if they choose to.

Transfer portals, NIL, collective bargaining, Super-leagues, and the Indiana Hoosier football overlords are all things that could change ND's ability to navigate independence.

[Bobref]

12 hours ago, Alduflux said:

Notre Dame football is an asset.  It currently has significant value.  So long as that continues to be true (and it likely will), they can join any conference whenever they want.  Additionally, each conference is competing against one another.  Because of this, each conference will appease ND to make sure they don't join a competing conference.  This means the P4 will agree to scheduling agreements (and playoff agreements) to prevent ND from joining a competitor. 

This was definitely the case in the past. But I’m not so sure it is any longer … or at least, to a lesser extent. Practically speaking, ND is not joining either the Big 12 or the ACC. It’s going to be one of the 2 big money conferences if it happens.

i do agree, however, that the college football landscape is changing, and will continue to change over the next several years. Maybe they’re smart to wait and see how it all shakes out. 

[Bash Riprock]

13 hours ago, Alduflux said:

A bunch of good dialogue here.  My observations:

Notre Dame football is an asset.  It currently has significant value.  So long as that continues to be true (and it likely will), they can join any conference whenever they want.  Additionally, each conference is competing against one another.  Because of this, each conference will appease ND to make sure they don't join a competing conference.  This means the P4 will agree to scheduling agreements (and playoff agreements) to prevent ND from joining a competitor.  

ND has the ability to maintain independence in the current landscape of college football.  That landscape will change significantly over the next decade, as the ACC will likely have massive defections before 2036.

There may come a day when ND is given an ultimatum to join with the big boys or be left out.  That day is not now.

 

I am not so sure I agree with much of your sentiment.  This feels like the "old way of ND thinking" and not sure that view is going to fly much longer in the future. I believe patience is wearing thin by many.

The ACC bailed quickly on ND when it came to advocating with conference teams for the CFB.  That is knowing that ND has the 5 game agreement with them for football and other major sports (except hockey) are in their conference.  Yet this still didn't matter...they turned their back on ND without hesitation.

I'm not so sure the SEC or Big 10 is "chomping at the bit" to admit ND to their conferences.  In the past, I do think the Big 10 really wanted them to join.  But that was prior to adding more schools.  They have not forgotten ND spurning their offer and will never agree to ND having their own major network TV contract.  ND in the SEC is not really a fit...not sure they want a "Yankee" school in their conference and an "uppity school" in their eyes.  They already have Vandy.  They will also never agree to ND having their own TV deal.

The best fit for ND by far is the Big 10, and I think there will need to be some fences mended on the part of ND with some of the schools that have influence.  From the past spurn of joining the conference to dropping some of the schools from ND schedule in recent years.  I believe the Big 10 will believe "they hold the cards" when it comes to future negotiating.  

ND was left out on an island during this year's CFB selections...no one advocated for them and why should a P4 conference do so, when their responsibilities comes first to their conference members.  ND is now the ONLY major football power that is independent....I believe their scheduling will get more difficult with P4 teams.  Making friends is pretty darn important.

I do agree that the landscape will change more, and there is something to possibly waiting....just not sure the Irish have all the time they wish to make that call.

[Alduflux]

22 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I am not so sure I agree with much of your sentiment.  This feels like the "old way of ND thinking" and not sure that view is going to fly much longer in the future. I believe patience is wearing thin by many.

The ACC bailed quickly on ND when it came to advocating with conference teams for the CFB.  That is knowing that ND has the 5 game agreement with them for football and other major sports (except hockey) are in their conference.  Yet this still didn't matter...they turned their back on ND without hesitation.

I'm not so sure the SEC or Big 10 is "chomping at the bit" to admit ND to their conferences.  In the past, I do think the Big 10 really wanted them to join.  But that was prior to adding more schools.  They have not forgotten ND spurning their offer and will never agree to ND having their own major network TV contract.  ND in the SEC is not really a fit...not sure they want a "Yankee" school in their conference and an "uppity school" in their eyes.  They already have Vandy.  They will also never agree to ND having their own TV deal.

The best fit for ND by far is the Big 10, and I think there will need to be some fences mended on the part of ND with some of the schools that have influence.  From the past spurn of joining the conference to dropping some of the schools from ND schedule in recent years.  I believe the Big 10 will believe "they hold the cards" when it comes to future negotiating.  

ND was left out on an island during this year's CFB selections...no one advocated for them and why should a P4 conference do so, when their responsibilities comes first to their conference members.  ND is now the ONLY major football power that is independent....I believe their scheduling will get more difficult with P4 teams.  Making friends is pretty darn important.

I do agree that the landscape will change more, and there is something to possibly waiting....just not sure the Irish have all the time they wish to make that call.

Let me rephrase my thoughts.  All that really matters is money.  Does adding ND to a conference increase or decrease the average payout to that conference's members?  The answer to that question for the last 100 years has always been yes.  So long as that remains true, and it likely will, ND has an open invitation to every conference.

Of course the ACC lobbied for one of their own members over a non-football member.  They (ACC) literally make more money with Miami in the playoff over ND.

Your right about ND and the TV deal.  Joining the B1G/SEC would mean joining the media rights of each conference.  The NBC deal would go away in the long term, although there could be a transition period where ND was a partial member and maintained the NBC deal until a certain date in the contract.  The B1G made similar concessions regarding membership when USC/UCLA joined vs OREGON/Washington in the form of full shares (Usc/ucla) vs partial shares (oregon/wash).