Are numbers issues threatening more and more Indiana high school football programs?

[Muda69]

I have recently heard that Wabash and now Elwood high schools are struggling to field enough players to effectively even hold practices, let alone field a varsity squad.   Coaches and AD's have had to to put out a pleas to their communities for more youth to consider playing. 

Is this a growing trend in Indiana, are there more schools out there in the same boat as the Apaches and Panthers?   Sounds like recent IHSAA decision not to allow co-op programs is going to ultimately reduce the number of youth playing varsity football.

 

 

[Daniel_Bragg]

It's not just football.  Sheridan struggled to put together a soccer team last year, and it looks like they might not be able field one this year.  To me, it's a generational thing.  With more and more athletes choosing to focus on one sport exclusively, it is becoming harder for, especially small schools, to field teams in every sport.

Between specialization and lack of interest in participating, I don't really know what the answer is.  Outside of allowing co-ops, I'm not sure what the IHSAA can do to solve this unique problem.

To your question about more schools, I'd be shocked if Tri-Central has a full team this year, just based on what happened last season.  Greenwood Christian already backed out of their season, as well.

[1st_and_10]

19 minutes ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

It's not just football.  Sheridan struggled to put together a soccer team last year, and it looks like they might not be able field one this year.  To me, it's a generational thing.  With more and more athletes choosing to focus on one sport exclusively, it is becoming harder for, especially small schools, to field teams in every sport.

Between specialization and lack of interest in participating, I don't really know what the answer is.  Outside of allowing co-ops, I'm not sure what the IHSAA can do to solve this unique problem.

To your question about more schools, I'd be shocked if Tri-Central has a full team this year, just based on what happened last season.  Greenwood Christian already backed out of their season, as well.

Indianasports apparel

 

Honest opinion... Go away from the Limited Contact period and back to a "schedule" for each sports season.  Limited contact periods are also pushing kids to focus on 1 sport.  Large schools (4A-6A) it could work (because pure numbers you are going to have more athletes).. Smaller schools, you need any and all athletes to play multiple.  When they have to choose between basketball camps/tourneys/workouts and football workouts/7 on 7/lineman challenges/etc. (just an example) athletes can only do so much.  Kids also don't want to spend 6 hours (between a couple of sports, conditioning/weight lifting) at school all summer either.  

I will say this, our athletic department does a really good job of trying to balance the sports... I.E. there isn't a volleyball workout the same time as girls basketball... But there are a lot of kids that don't want to spend 6 hours (between a couple of sports workouts/practices, conditioning/weightlifting) at school all summer either.  

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

Between specialization and lack of interest in participating, I don't really know what the answer is.  Outside of allowing co-ops, I'm not sure what the IHSAA can do to solve this unique problem.

To your question about more schools, I'd be shocked if Tri-Central has a full team this year, just based on what happened last season.  Greenwood Christian already backed out of their season, as well.

A Tri-Central/Tipton or Tri-Central/Taylor co-op makes perfect sense.   That or a consolidation.

 

[Jays]

3 hours ago, 1st_and_10 said:

Honest opinion... Go away from the Limited Contact period and back to a "schedule" for each sports season.  Limited contact periods are also pushing kids to focus on 1 sport.  Large schools (4A-6A) it could work (because pure numbers you are going to have more athletes).. Smaller schools, you need any and all athletes to play multiple.  When they have to choose between basketball camps/tourneys/workouts and football workouts/7 on 7/lineman challenges/etc. (just an example) athletes can only do so much.  Kids also don't want to spend 6 hours (between a couple of sports, conditioning/weight lifting) at school all summer either.  

I will say this, our athletic department does a really good job of trying to balance the sports... I.E. there isn't a volleyball workout the same time as girls basketball... But there are a lot of kids that don't want to spend 6 hours (between a couple of sports workouts/practices, conditioning/weightlifting) at school all summer either.  

It works well when the FB and BB coach work together for the summer schedule. Especially at a small school where you need all athletes playing 2-3 sports.  

[Coach Nowlin]

The issue with the Co-op model is it seems as if the combined enrollment would take, so lets say, Tri Central Co-op'd with Tipton:  TC sends maybe 9 total players who want to play, awesome, right, however, that model stated then for enrollment classification purposes, Tipton would have to absorb the ENITRE TC population number, so lets say, Tipton is 475 students (no idea, but I know middle pack 2a).  TC may have 350 students:  Tipton new Classification number would be 825 and now in 3a.   Why would Tipton be willing to have that happened to allow 9 football players to join .    I believe that is why that model way it was proposed, probably led to the fail vote,  zero knowledge of the reason by it was shot down personally, but if I am an ADMIN in those area Principal Meetings where many times these things come up, cannot imagine many of those folks willing to allow that to affect their schools to that degree.    

EASIEST SOLUTION:   Really is from meeting I have attended:  

 

8 MAN FOOTBALL :   It is a VERY good option to keep kids playing, even schools to have JV games go to 8 man instead of cancelling.    

 

 

[Daniel_Bragg]

7 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

The issue with the Co-op model is it seems as if the combined enrollment would take, so lets say, Tri Central Co-op'd with Tipton:  TC sends maybe 9 total players who want to play, awesome, right, however, that model stated then for enrollment classification purposes, Tipton would have to absorb the ENITRE TC population number, so lets say, Tipton is 475 students (no idea, but I know middle pack 2a).  TC may have 350 students:  Tipton new Classification number would be 825 and now in 3a.   Why would Tipton be willing to have that happened to allow 9 football players to join .    I believe that is why that model way it was proposed, probably led to the fail vote,  zero knowledge of the reason by it was shot down personally, but if I am an ADMIN in those area Principal Meetings where many times these things come up, cannot imagine many of those folks willing to allow that to affect their schools to that degree.    

In this case, sure.  However, to shoot down the entire model because of an example like this is shortsighted to me.  Just because Co-ops are possible, doesn't mean your admin has to approve a proposed mix of this very example.  If TC wanted to Co-op with someone, obviously it has to be approved by the other school.  

That being said, I think the model of including all of the enrollment makes sense.  It's the exact same thing that happens to all schools for every sport now.  The class numbers have always caused me to scratch my head.  If Sheridan has 60 kids play football, why does it matter if their student body is 340?  That total number includes girls who will never come out for football.  Don't get me wrong, I much prefer a class system to the alternative, but I still think how the IHSAA goes about it could be improved.

But back on point, co-ops make the most sense to me to allow, and this season has it on full display why.  

[wabashalwaysfights]

All in favor of co-ops personally, I hate to have the appearance of following Illinois in anything, but honestly at least having the option is good.  @Coach Nowlin is 1,000% correct as well though, having the option for 8-man football at the sub varsity level is a great option as well.  @1st_and_10 also makes a great point on the calendar; I get that most of us coaches do what we do because we are so incredibly passionate about the game of football, but sometimes less is more.  

As an aside, I've coached at small schools my entire career.  I will grant that the number of programs that are struggling with numbers seems to be on the rise, however, for smaller schools, this issues has been around for quite a while.  The issues that @1st_and_10 points out in his post only amplifies it.

[1st_and_10]

10 minutes ago, wabashalwaysfights said:

All in favor of co-ops personally, I hate to have the appearance of following Illinois in anything, but honestly at least having the option is good.  @Coach Nowlin is 1,000% correct as well though, having the option for 8-man football at the sub varsity level is a great option as well.  @1st_and_10 also makes a great point on the calendar; I get that most of us coaches do what we do because we are so incredibly passionate about the game of football, but sometimes less is more.  

As an aside, I've coached at small schools my entire career.  I will grant that the number of programs that are struggling with numbers seems to be on the rise, however, for smaller schools, this issues has been around for quite a while.  The issues that @1st_and_10 points out in his post only amplifies it.

I also believe the current "calendar" is a reason why coaches get out.  It's basically year-round and though there is no doubt there are a lot of passionate coaches, they do get burned out (or are not compensated for their year-round activity).

We (Western Boone) don't do as much as everyone else.  Practice 1x a week in the summer for an hour and a half.  There aren't any workouts (other than strength/conditioning for those that aren't in a spring sport) in the Spring.  We didn't have a single scrimmage over the summer (we had 3 get cancelled due to weather).  

I honestly believe we are an anomaly though (though small schools are all probably similar?).  I am thankful that our AD and Coaches work to ensure kids can do as many sports (or be at as many workouts) as possible.  It's tough though on kids who need to work, have livestock (fairs), and those that do not have their own transportation. 

Edited 7 hours ago by 1st_and_10

[Muda69]

Sounds like Elwood has a reprieve, at least for this season:   https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/high-school/2026/08/04/high-school-football-elwood-social-media-plea-helps-to-generate-numbers-at-second-practice/91171412007/

Quote

Elwood High School athletic director Ryan Vanskyock put out notice on social media Monday that the football program needed more players to come out for the team if there was going to be a season.

He received far more feedback than expected.

“I was not expecting to get that many shares,” Vanskyock told the IndyStar late Tuesday morning. “I think there’s over 250 shares right now. But it led to some of the parents at Elwood talking to us and calling us. It led to three parents saying their kids are going to be out (on Tuesday). I truly think it’s helped a little bit of just getting the notice out there of, ‘It’s time as a parent to get your kids to do something if your son is just sitting at home and not doing anything or just playing video games.’”

...

Vanskyock said just 12 students showed up for the first official day of practice on Monday. Three others who are expected to be on the team were out of state and will be joining the team. Vanskyock said he wanted to get at least six more players out for the team in order to safely start the season.

On Tuesday afternoon, he shared that the team is up to 21 players.

“We have enough to officially start the season, and we couldn’t be more grateful,” Vanskyock shared on social media. “We’re still looking for a few more boys to join the team. Another 5 or 6 players would help us fill out the roster and complete a full season schedule.”

Elwood is a Class 2A program with an enrollment of 422 students in high school. The Panthers were 3-7 last year under coach Sammy Mireles, now in his third season. Mireles’ son, also named Sammy Mireles, broke the state’s all-time rushing record in 2013 with 8,110 yards, a mark that has since been surpassed by Charlie Spegal and Myles McLaughlin.

....

 

[Coach Nowlin]

3 hours ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

In this case, sure.  However, to shoot down the entire model because of an example like this is shortsighted to me.  Just because Co-ops are possible, doesn't mean your admin has to approve a proposed mix of this very example.  If TC wanted to Co-op with someone, obviously it has to be approved by the other school.  
  

It was literally the proposal..... combine enrollment..... shot down.....   

So Sheridan says, we will Co-Op with TC:  That pushes Sheridan from 1a to 2 a for ALL THEIR SPORTS.....  good luck with selling that to your school when you're taking on a few football players from another school.   The model as written for Co Op is what I have the issue with, because it effects too much overall for 1 sport in this case football.   

This is a local Co op proposal,

[Daniel_Bragg]

3 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

It was literally the proposal..... combine enrollment..... shot down.....   

So Sheridan says, we will Co-Op with TC:  That pushes Sheridan from 1a to 2 a for ALL THEIR SPORTS.....  good luck with selling that to your school when you're taking on a few football players from another school.   The model as written for Co Op is what I have the issue with, because it effects too much overall for 1 sport in this case football.   

This is a local Co op proposal,

I know what you're saying, but Sheridan IS 2A in almost every other sport.  

[Frozen Tundra]

13 minutes ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

I know what you're saying, but Sheridan IS 2A in almost every other sport.  

Big difference between 2A in football and 2A in every other sport. Hence why there are six classifications for football despite a smaller pool of schools.

[Coach Nowlin]

17 minutes ago, Frozen Tundra said:

Big difference between 2A in football and 2A in every other sport. Hence why there are six classifications for football despite a smaller pool of schools.

 

Bingo

There is not 1 admin in the state of Indiana that would be okay taking on CO OP that pushes their school "UP A CLASS" to just take on a handful of athletes.....

Now, if a Co Op model is set up where that is NOT an automatic take on full enrollment of said school then let's talk........but until then, as is, no chance 

 

[PLACfan]

I find it hard to believe this wouldn't be a factor..............but does the "open enrollment" or school choice not play a factor in this?  As someone who has seen schools boastfully (and arrogantly) advertise their satellite bus pickup sites for years, I find it hard to believe that the schools that are having a hard time fielding teams are struggling because of kids staying inside and playing video games.  How many of their kids hit the portal and jumped on a roster elsewhere because an adult at another school promised them something "better"????

[Muda69]

19 minutes ago, PLACfan said:

I find it hard to believe this wouldn't be a factor..............but does the "open enrollment" or school choice not play a factor in this?  

Of course it does. In the aforementioned article about Elwood it is mentioned that the Panthers have lost of number to students to Madison-Grant High School.  And in Clinton county the Frankfort --> Clinton Prairie pipeline is alive and well. 

 

 

[Coach Lou]

I think the open transfer rule plays a big part in this as well.