The Coronavirus - a virus from eating bats, an accident or something sinister gone wrong?

[Howe]

Chicago mayor threatens citizens with arrest for violating illegal, unconstitutional orders.

 

[Irishman]

23 minutes ago, Howe said:

Perhaps you should address Muda. I never asked a question. Apparently Mike Pence is similar to the Democrats and liberals featured in the Tucker Carlson video. Their behavoir is a considerable example that they view the coronavirus mitigation rules as irrelevant and a hoax.

I would agree that there are a lot of people that are acting irresponsibly throughout this whole thing, regardless of party affiliation. 
As far as answering the other question, that is who I meant to address it to, but this site merges posts. 

[gonzoron]

21 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

You're

"your"

[swordfish]

1 hour ago, Howe said:

Chicago mayor threatens citizens with arrest for violating illegal, unconstitutional orders.

 

As I watch this video here are my thoughts

1)  So far the majority of the people in this video are people of color.  And in Chicago, according to:  https://www.chicagotribune.com/coronavirus/ct-coronavirus-chicago-african-american-population-20200420-c2nyvnq4vrcundwdfvhdldtlfe-story.html  People of color are making up a larger percentage of the cases than others.  Just an observation - I'm sure the opposite would hold true in some other demographic area.

2)  Who gives the Governor (or the mayor) the ability to determine who or what is "essential" business?  And how is that decision to be enforced in court?  https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2020/05/05/dallas-salon-owner-ordered-to-spend-a-week-in-jail-for-keeping-salon-open/    Why does the salon owner in this story have to prove her business is essential or safe?  Shouldn't the government need to prove that fact, instead of the Governor simply stating her business isn't?  Her argument was pretty good in her statement to the judge who called her actions selfish.  "I don't call feeding my kids, or allowing my stylists feed their kids and families selfish, so I don't agree with you, I need to stay open"  - Off to jail -

3)  The Governor of Michigan  dictating citizens cannot go to their vacation homes during the shutdown and arresting violators or fining them.  If I own property and am paying taxes I should be able to shelter in place there if I choose.  The Governor of Illinois is facing a similar situation, the members of the largest homeowners association (that is actually a campground) in the country are being petitioned by the local city (about 1 1/2 hours west of Chicago) to shut down and stay at home, even though these people own their property where their campers are and pay property taxes.

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

"your"

23 minutes ago, swordfish said:

As I watch this video here are my thoughts

2)  Who gives the Governor (or the mayor) the ability to determine who or what is "essential" business?  And how is that decision to be enforced in court?  https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2020/05/05/dallas-salon-owner-ordered-to-spend-a-week-in-jail-for-keeping-salon-open/    Why does the salon owner in this story have to prove her business is essential or safe?  Shouldn't the government need to prove that fact, instead of the Governor simply stating her business isn't?  Her argument was pretty good in her statement to the judge who called her actions selfish.  "I don't call feeding my kids, or allowing my stylists feed their kids and families selfish, so I don't agree with you, I need to stay open"  - Off to jail -

3)  The Governor of Michigan  dictating citizens cannot go to their vacation homes during the shutdown and arresting violators or fining them.  If I own property and am paying taxes I should be able to shelter in place there if I choose.  The Governor of Illinois is facing a similar situation, the members of the largest homeowners association (that is actually a campground) in the country are being petitioned by the local city (about 1 1/2 hours west of Chicago) to shut down and stay at home, even though these people own their property where their campers are and pay property taxes.

Authoritarians never let a good crisis go to waste.

 

[gonzoron]

2 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Authoritarians never let a good crisis go to waste.

 

[Muda69]

Prohibiting Religious Services Makes the First Amendment a Coronavirus Victim

https://reason.com/2020/05/06/prohibiting-religious-services-makes-the-first-amendment-a-coronavirus-victim/

Quote

A Massachusetts pastor, Kristopher Casey, will be punished with a $300 civil fine for convening more than 10 people at his Sunday church service. If he does it again, the fine will increase to $500, and he could face criminal charges, Masslive.com reports.

And where has the press been in the face of what seems, on its face, to be an egregious violation of the First Amendment's protections of peaceable assembly and the free exercise of religion? The newspapers have been basically cheering it on.

"The constitutional guarantee of civil liberties is not absolute, and its abridgment is not necessarily an act of tyranny," a Washington Post editorial advised. "In this pandemic, the reach of an individual's freedom to be foolish ends an inch away, where the next individual is entitled to protection against the peril posed by the fool's heedlessness." The Post insists that "the same rationale" that closed "concert halls, sports arenas, restaurants, and gyms," also "justifies and requires closing the doors to churches, synagogues, mosques, and other traditional venues of worship."

A New York Times editorial took a similar position: "Bans like these are legal, as long as they are neutral and applicable to everyone…. Under Supreme Court precedent, any infringement on speech or religion must be incidental to the central goal of the restriction, which in this case is clear: stopping the spread of the coronavirus."

If state, local, or federal authorities were shutting down newspaper printing plants, restricting reporters from newsgathering, or preventing the physical distribution of newspapers on pandemic-related public health grounds, the Times and the Post would almost certainly take a different, and less casual, view of the matter. They'd be in court complaining about First Amendment violations faster than you can say Floyd Abrams.

Back in September, the Times' publisher, A.G. Sulzberger, had a long article asserting that "a tour of our nation's history reminds that the role of the free press has been one of the few areas of enduring consensus," that "the First Amendment has served as the world's gold standard for free speech and the free press for two centuries. It has been one of the keys to an unprecedented flourishing of freedom and prosperity in this country and, through its example, around the world." Sulzberger insisted that "in the United States, the Constitution, the rule of law and a still-robust news media act as a constraint."

The same First Amendment and rule of law that protects the free press is the one that protects the freedom of assembly and the free exercise of religion. For that self-interested reason alone, you'd think that maybe the newspapers would be less eager about cheering on the abridgment of civil liberties.

A few brave journalists have taken a different view of it. Veteran economic columnist David Warsh is critical of what he describes as "news media that pass along orders without questions." An editorial in the New Boston Post observes disapprovingly that "all this is happening in the state where people prized their liberty enough to start the American War for Independence."

Pastor Casey of the Adams Square Baptist Church in Worcester, in his April 22 letter to Governor Baker of Massachusetts and to the mayor and police chief of Worcester, quoted the Massachusetts Constitution of 1780, which is older even than the federal First Amendment: "It is the right as well as the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons to worship the Supreme Being, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping God in the manner and season most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship."

The federal Constitution does expressly provide that some rights are limited in extraordinary circumstances. The suspension clause in Article I, for example, provides that the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus can be suspended "when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." But there's no such language about suspending the First Amendment. And even the habeas corpus language applies only specifically to cases of "rebellion or invasion," not as a blanket "public safety" concern. Whether the novel coronavirus qualifies as an "invasion" may yet be a matter for litigation.

In the meantime, leaving aside the legal questions, as a practical and political matter it seems highly unlikely that Americans will stand idly by indefinitely while the government forbids them from gathering in their places of worship. The newspaper editorial writers may roll over for it, but Pastor Casey and his congregants, and many others like them, will not.

 

[Muda69]

5 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Nice to know you supposedly received one.

 

[Bobref]

7 hours ago, Howe said:

I disagree Bob. Pence has never issued an order to wear masks. Drs. Fauci and Birx do not wear masks. On the other hand, the Democrat politicians and liberals featured on the video have either issued orders or instructed people in proper mitigation behaviors yet they failed to adhere to their own instructions. Obviously these people view such mitigation behaviors as irrelevant and a hoax.

Do you ever just stop and listen to yourself?

[gonzoron]

26 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Nice to know you supposedly received one.

 

You should probably be careful about disagreeing with 1 of your posse.

Troj might tooth type a scathing rebuttal once he gets his foot out of his mouth.

[Howe]

18 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Do you ever just stop and listen to yourself?

Sure. 

Tell me again how Zantac was banned by the FDA due to a manufacturing process and not the drug ranitidine. 

[Muda69]

25 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

You should probably be careful about disagreeing with 1 of your posse.

Not a member of any posse, gonzo.  Just an online acquaintance that I have known for many years.  And disagreements can be healthy.  Except in your case, where if you would ever disagree with BarryO you would be disagreeing with yourself...........

[gonzoron]

25 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

if you would ever disagree with BarryO you would be disagreeing with yourself...........

I'm unsure as to why you keep repeating this lie. Moderators can see the real names of all GID members.

[Bobref]

53 minutes ago, Howe said:

Sure. 

Tell me again how Zantac was banned by the FDA due to a manufacturing process and not the drug ranitidine. 

It’s not a ban. The FDA requested the companies to voluntarily recall all ranitidine products because of a “contaminant” that was introduced in the manufacturing process, and which could increase over time under normal storage conditions.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-requests-removal-all-ranitidine-products-zantac-market

[swordfish]

2 hours ago, swordfish said:

 

2)  Who gives the Governor (or the mayor) the ability to determine who or what is "essential" business?  And how is that decision to be enforced in court?  https://www.dallasnews.com/news/courts/2020/05/05/dallas-salon-owner-ordered-to-spend-a-week-in-jail-for-keeping-salon-open/    Why does the salon owner in this story have to prove her business is essential or safe?  Shouldn't the government need to prove that fact, instead of the Governor simply stating her business isn't?  Her argument was pretty good in her statement to the judge who called her actions selfish.  "I don't call feeding my kids, or allowing my stylists feed their kids and families selfish, so I don't agree with you, I need to stay open"  - Off to jail -

 

Update to this story:

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/05/06/texas-attorney-general-ken-paxton-immediate-release-jailed-dallas-salon-owner-shelley-luther/

DALLAS (CBSDFW.COM) – Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton has called for the “immediate release” of a Dallas salon owner who was arrested and sent to jail for opening her business in defiance of Gov. Greg Abbott’s stay-at-home orders.

Shelley Luther, owner of Salon A La Mode, was sentenced to seven days in jail Tuesday after Dallas judge Eric Moye said she violated those orders as the coronavirus pandemic continues.

 

Paxton said he believes the judge is abusing his authority and that her arrest seems like a “political stunt.” In a full statement, Paxton said:

“I find it outrageous and out of touch that during this national pandemic, a judge, in a county that actually released hardened criminals for fear of contracting COVID-19, would jail a mother for operating her hair salon in an attempt to put food on her family’s table,” said Attorney General Paxton. “The trial judge did not need to lock up Shelley Luther. His order is a shameful abuse of judicial discretion, which seems like another political stunt in Dallas. He should release Ms. Luther immediately.”

The attorney general sent a letter to Moye, saying her sentencing was “significantly overbroad.” He mentioned that Abbott’s new executive order will allow her to operate business starting on Friday.

The new order that Abbott announced earlier this week allows for more businesses like salons and barber shops to reopen their doors on Friday, May 8. This comes a week after nonessential businesses like retail stores and restaurants were allowed to reopen in Texas at a 25% capacity.

Paxton said jailing Luther for seven days, which overlaps with her being able to operate her business, is “unjustifiable.”

Paxton also said Dallas County has been reducing its jail population due to concerns of COVID-19 and that releasing one more person shouldn’t be an issue.

“A community that released all those people, some of whom committed serious crimes, can certainly stand to release one more—a mother whose only crime was operating a small business in an effort to feed her children,” Paxton said in his letter.

Abbott soon released a statement, saying he agrees with Paxton in asking for her release.

“I join the Attorney General in disagreeing with the excessive action by the Dallas Judge, putting Shelley Luther in jail for seven days. As I have made clear through prior pronouncements, jailing Texans for non-compliance with executive orders should always be the last available option. Compliance with executive orders during this pandemic is important to ensure public safety; however, surely there are less restrictive means to achieving that goal than jailing a Texas mother.”

Luther received a cease-and-desist letter last week from Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins to close her salon, but she publicly ripped it up. She had reopened her salon on April 24.

The salon owner has garnered crowds of residents who supported her decision to reopen her business even if it was in defiance of statewide orders.

Luther and her salon were also fined $500 for each day it was open, which was seven in total as of Tuesday. Moye said her salon would continue to be fined every day it was open until the new order would allow it to reopen on Friday.

Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson, the Dallas County District Attorney’s Office and Jenkins have not yet commented on the situation.

During her appearance in court Tuesday, Moye and Luther made statements to one another.

“If you would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge that your own actions were selfish, putting your own interest ahead of those in the community in which you live,” Moye said, offering her a chance to avoid jail time. He said he would consider only giving her a fine, if she apologized, acknowledged she was wrong, and agreed to keep her business closed until Friday, when the governor has announced all salons may open.

“I have much respect for this court and laws. I have never been in this position before and it’s not someplace that I want to be,” Luther responded. “But I have to disagree with you sir, when you say that I’m selfish because feeding my kids — is not selfish. I have hair stylists that are going hungry because they’d rather feed their kids. So sir, if you think the law is more important than kids getting fed, then please go ahead with you decision but I am not going to shut the salon.”

Luther’s attorney, Warren Norred, said they would appeal the judge’s decision.

A GoFundMe page that was set up for Luther has, so far, raised just over $280,000. The goal was originally $250,000 but it has since increased to $500,000.

 

I would have to say perhaps her (the salon owner) point was made......

[gonzoron]

[Howe]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

It’s not a ban. The FDA requested the companies to voluntarily recall all ranitidine products because of a “contaminant” that was introduced in the manufacturing process, and which could increase over time under normal storage conditions.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-requests-removal-all-ranitidine-products-zantac-market

I did not see a reference to a contaminant that was introduced in the manufacturing process in the link.

The pharmacy who tested ranitidine and discovered excessive levels of NDMA at 3,000 times higher than the FDA's limit.

"Our finding is this is an inherent instability of the ranitidine molecule. It just falls apart into NDMA" says David Light, CEO of Valisure. "And this isn't just something Valisure is yelling about and just happen to find. The foundation of this concern has been around for decades. We are just connecting the dots".

Light pointed to research going back to the 1980's, and as recent as 2016. The pharmacy's petition asks the FDA to recall all ranitidine products, including the brand-name Zantac.

https://www.webmd.com/heartburn-gerd/news/20190926/heartburn-drugs-and-cancer-what-are-the-risks

[gonzoron]

1 hour ago, TrojanDad said:

Foot in my mouth for what...a typo?

Certainly not a typo. Committing a grammatical error while explaining the superiority of your education over someone else's. Definitely a foot in the mouth on your part. Then try to cover it up by name-calling. Laughable. 

[Howe]

 

[Bobref]

And this one is especially for @Howe.

[Muda69]

16 hours ago, gonzoron said:

I'm unsure as to why you keep repeating this lie. Moderators can see the real names of all GID members.

Yeah, and I'm sure those are real names being used 100% of the time.  How naive.

 

[Muda69]

15 hours ago, gonzoron said:

The U.S. declared war on Vietnam?

 

[Muda69]

COVID-19 wallops meat plant workers; shortages hit shelves, fast food

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/05/meat-plants-become-covid-19-hotspots-58-test-positive-at-one-plant/

Quote

Meat- and poultry-processing facilities have become hotspots for COVID-19 outbreaks, with cases spreading in over 100 plants across the country.

Federal and state public health researchers reported Friday, May 1, that at least 115 meat and poultry plants in 19 states have had been affected by the pandemic. In all, the researchers counted at least 4,913 sickened workers and at least 20 deaths. The findings are likely an undercount given different testing strategies at facilities and the fact that some facilities did not submit any data.

For instance, the only data researchers had from Iowa indicated that only 377 workers in two plants in the state had been sickened. But on Tuesday, May 5, Iowa health officials announced that there were at least 1,653 cases from four plants that had outbreaks—meaning 10 percent or more of the workforce had been sickened.

A Tyson plant in Perry, Iowa, had 730 cases alone, which amounts to 58 percent of tested workers at the facility. Iowa Premium Beef in Tama saw 258 cases, which is 39 percent of workers tested. A Tyson plant in Columbus Junction had 221 cases, 26 percent of those tested. Tyson’s Waterloo facility had 444 cases, 17 percent of tested employees.

The three Tyson plants closed for cleaning at various points in April. On Tuesday, the company said the Waterloo facility, which is still closed, will resume limited operation on May 7.

Safety problems

“Our top priority is the health and safety of our team members, their loved ones and our communities,” Tom Hart, plant manager of Tyson’s Waterloo facility, said in a statement. He noted that the facility had worked with local officials and health experts to better protect workers from the disease.

Keeping workers safe in meat processing facilities is a particular challenge, according to the researchers behind the study last week, which was published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

According to data from risk assessments:

Facility challenges included structural and operational practices that made it difficult to maintain a 6-foot (2-meter) distance while working, especially on production lines, and in nonproduction settings during breaks and while entering and exiting facilities. The pace and physical demands of processing work made adherence to face covering recommendations difficult, with some workers observed covering only their mouths and frequently readjusting their face coverings while working. Some sites were also observed to have difficulty adhering to the heightened cleaning and disinfection guidance recommended for all worksites to reduce SARS-CoV-2 transmission.

The researchers also noted cultural and economic challenges to controlling disease spread in meat-processing facilities. For instance, one facility had workers who spoke 40 different primary languages. And “many workers live in crowded, multigenerational settings and sometimes share transportation to and from work, contributing to increased risk for transmission of COVID-19 outside the facility itself.”

For these reasons, they concluded that these facilities are at high risk of outbreak, which “requires prompt action to decrease risks to workers, preserve facility function, and maintain the food supply.”

Breaking the chain

Once COVID-19 begins spreading in a meat facility, it could easily become a source of infection for the greater community—or vice versa. Of the top 10 metropolitan areas with the highest new confirmed cases per capita, five have meat processing plants with outbreaks, The New York Times noted Wednesday.

Meanwhile, the United States has already begun experiencing shortages in certain meat products, including fresh beef, due to COVID-19-related closures and disruptions. Hundreds of Wendy’s fast-food restaurants have run out of hamburgers, and several grocery chains are limiting purchases of certain meat items, the Times reported Tuesday.

The chairman of Tyson Foods took out full-page advertisements in the Times and The Washington Post last week warning that “the supply chain is breaking.”

To better protect meat-plant workers, the researchers behind the MMRW report made several recommendations, such as slowing down the pace of production, installing physical barriers between work stations, screening employees for symptoms, requiring masks, offering paid sick leave, and stepping up sanitation and hygiene stations.

However, workers have reported that meat companies have ignored health recommendations since the pandemic began, including failing to offer masks and other protective gear and encouraging people to work while sick.

According to an independent tally of COVID-19 cases in meat-plant workers by Midwest Center for Investigative Reporting, there have been at least 10,800 cases from 170 plants in 29 states, including 45 deaths as of May 6.

 

[gonzoron]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

The U.S. declared war on Vietnam?

 

Ask a soldier who fought there if they thought it was war.

[Muda69]

25 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Ask a soldier who fought there if they thought it was war.

Still doesn't make the question any less valid:   The U.S. Congress declared war on Vietnam?