The Coronavirus - a virus from eating bats, an accident or something sinister gone wrong?

[swordfish]

5 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Too little, too late for the NRA.

NRA lays off dozens and shuts down fundraising amid coronavirus

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nra-layoff-fundraising/

1)  Too late for the NRA?  The NRA isn't done, just adjusting costs to make survival more imminent.   Wishful thinking for the liberals is all.

2)  I fail to see how this NRA story has anything to do with :

I kinda think she was missing the point of the Nazi symbols........

[Howe]

29 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

It's just one man's opinion, not based on facts that can be verified. Just a sound bite of Fake News being propagated by the RWM.

Interesting. Delaney was the only sane candidate on the Democrat debate stage other than Tulsi Gabbard. 

[gonzoron]

48 minutes ago, swordfish said:

2)  I fail to see how this NRA story has anything to do with :

These militia rallies always serve as a boom for the NRA and ammo sales.

[gonzoron]

40 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Mitch McConnell has stated he would like to see a recession??

McConnell hasn't stated anything about wishing for a recession. Neither have any Democrats. McConnell stated he'd like to see Obama fail, and did everything in his power to make that happen.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by gonzoron

[gonzoron]

42 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

Seems to be Pelosi was the last hold up for relief aid....correct?

If you're talking about the Coronavirus relief aid, everyone should have held that up. More debt the U.S. can't afford. $3 trillion waste.

[gonzoron]

6 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

I trust Delaney's feelings about his fellow Dem congressman....

LOL, only because it fits the Trump Groupie agenda.

[Howe]

1 minute ago, gonzoron said:

LOL, only because it fits the Trump Groupie agenda.

Delaney was the only Democrat stating common sense on the Democrat debate stage when the rest were raising their hands in support of open borders and in agreement with lifelong health care to any illegal alien.

[gonzoron]

1 minute ago, TrojanDad said:

That is NOT why she held the relief up for small business..............

Perhaps there wasn't enough again for airline carbon emission reduction, Kennedy Center, voter registration, Obamaphones, etc.

As I said, a $3 trillion waste. And counting. Passed by members of both parties, not just Democrats, not just Pelosi. They should all be ashamed.

5 minutes ago, Howe said:

Delaney was the only Democrat stating common sense on the Democrat debate stage when the rest were raising their hands in support of open borders and in agreement with lifelong health care to any illegal alien.

I didn't watch any of the debates.

[swordfish]

1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

These militia rallies always serve as a boom for the NRA and ammo sales.

Really?  Anti-lockdown demonstrators are now a militia?  If that were the case (which it isn't) wouldn't the NRA be in a much better position since the rash of these protests have been within the last 2 weeks.  (except the first first Lansing protest)  Also - with that many guns in such a close setting, there should have been a mass shooting.  Yet only one arrest.......

[gonzoron]

1 minute ago, swordfish said:

with that many guns in such a close setting, there should have been a mass shooting. 

There wasn't a need for a mass shooting. There will be deaths from the rally due to the people who attended in such a close setting.

[swordfish]

Just now, gonzoron said:

There wasn't a need for a mass shooting. There will be deaths from the rally due to the people who attended in such a close setting.

OIC.  Gotcha......

[gonzoron]

Collierville Carrier Corporation plant closed due to possible coronavirus outbreak

https://wreg.com/news/coronavirus/collierville-carrier-corporation-plant-closed-due-to-possible-coronavirus-outbreak/

[Muda69]

Be Warned, Coronavirus Snitches: You Too May Be Snitched On

https://reason.com/2020/05/04/be-warned-coronavirus-snitches-you-too-may-be-snitched-on/#comments

Quote

Hundreds of St. Louis citizens who snitched to the government about businesses that defied closure orders are discovering that their messages are not confidential and their identities are subject to sunshine laws.

As part of the effort to slow the spread of the coronavirus, some city and state leaders have forced businesses they deem "nonessential" to shut down. St. Louis County encouraged people to report any such businesses that are still open via an online form.

The county received more than 900 complaints. And the complaints, apparently, were not anonymous. Indeed, they're public records subject to the state's sunshine laws. Now people who are angry at the extent and duration of government shutdown orders are using those laws to expose the people who filed the complaints.

KSDK, a local NBC affiliate, reported in late April that a man named Jared Totsch received a copy of these tipsters' records and shared them on Facebook. When a KDSK reporter reached out to him to point to him that these tipsters are now worried about retaliation, Totsch responded that was partly the point.

"I'd call it poetic justice, instant Karma, a dose of their own medicine," he responded. "What goes around, comes around. They are now experiencing the same pain that they themselves helped to inflict on those they filed complaints against."

KDSK interviewed a tipster named Patricia (the station withheld her last name) who was worried about retaliation. "I saw a lot of businesses that were non-essential that were open and had lines outside, parking lots filled as if the order didn't matter to them," she explained to the station. "And that was kinda frustrating." She has personal reasons for being worried about the spread of the coronavirus—she has lupus, and two other people in her home have autoimmune issues, so they're in a higher health risk category than many others.

The whole fight feels like waves of resentment coming from opposite directions. There are huge economic costs to these businesses if they're forced to shut their doors. These shutdowns are going to lead to bankruptcies and destroyed livelihoods.

But yes, there are huge health risks to people like Patricia. Plans to try to restart the economy tend to involve keeping those who are in high-risk categories in quarantine while others carefully start returning to work.

The Reason Foundation (which publishes this site) recently released a working paper that tries to avoid these anger-inducing one-size-fits-all responses and focus instead on containing infection clusters. Patricia needs to keep herself safe, but that doesn't mean those businesses she saw needed to be closed in order to achieve that goal.

If more people realized that government's responses have trended more toward authoritarian blanket demands rather than actual risk assessments and properly targeted protection measures, we'd all be better off moving forward.

Bingo.

And of of the comments from this story sums it up quite well:

Quote

I snitched because I don’t want people out there getting COVID-19 because I have an autoimmune issue.
– Snitch
But if they get exposed and become immune they will help provide herd immunity which will in turn help you.
– Sane person
But I want to control peoples lives that are different than mine.
– Snitch

 

[gonzoron]

7 hours ago, Howe said:

Based on a 1.5M metropolitan population, approximately 99.337% of citizens have not tested positive for the coronavirus.

Moving these comments to a more apt thread.

The real statistic missing is what percentage of these 1.5 million have actually been tested? The percentage cited means nothing without knowing this.

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

You are dangerous. Or, more accurately, your way of thinking is dangerous.

Agree.

[gonzoron]

[Muda69]

Personal freedom and responsibility.

 

[gonzoron]

9 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Personal freedom and responsibility.

 

Everyone wants the first one without regard to the second one.

[Muda69]

2 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Everyone wants the first one without regard to the second one.

Only those without morals.

Personal freedom and responsibility.

 

[Irishman]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Personal freedom and responsibility.

 

It has been some time since it was posted. But I believe your basic premise for what you believe is that people should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it does no harm to others or infringe upon the rights of others. Has that changed now? 
also, being a supporter of a strict and limited interpretation of the Constitution, my next question is how do you define the phrase “promote the general welfare”? 
 

[gonzoron]

57 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Only those without morals.

Personal freedom and responsibility.

 

That makes sense. My personal freedom has not been removed because I am taking a moral approach to personal responsibility.

There sure are a lot of immoral people attending protests.

[swordfish]

1 minute ago, gonzoron said:

That makes sense. My personal freedom has not been removed because I am taking a moral approach to personal responsibility.

There sure are a lot of immoral people attending protests.

I'm sure there are fine people on both sides, though.......

[DanteEstonia]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Personal freedom and responsibility.

 

This is an incomplete sentence.

[gonzoron]

33 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

What the data doesn't tell you is impact of demographics.  New York alone has 40% of the US COVID deaths.  New Jersey has about 10% of COVID deaths.  So 50% of this country's deaths come out of those 2 states and predominately the NYC metro area.

I understand the above are case rates, but what would both case and mortality rates (and resulting line graphs) look like in the US if you removed one key regional area?  According to the article and data below, eliminating New York alone would reduce the COVID mortality rate by 36%.  That is a very different curve that the one you presented above.  Understanding this impact is extremely important for the entire country to better understand their risk.

Not downplaying the risks of COVID 19, but understanding demographics is vital to understanding risk and this data supports why different areas should be taking different measures.  I won't even touch the impact of the age demographic to COVID caused mortality.  That is another story in itself, and is very sad.

https://mises.org/wire/new-york-vs-texas-ny-has-nearly-50-times-more-covid-19-deaths-capita

In other words, if you take away the high incidence areas of every country on the chart, the graph would remain the same for each, but the numbers would just be lower.

[Muda69]

20 minutes ago, Irishman said:

It has been some time since it was posted. But I believe your basic premise for what you believe is that people should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it does no harm to others or infringe upon the rights of others. Has that changed now? 
 

No, it has not changed.

20 minutes ago, Irishman said:

also, being a supporter of a strict and limited interpretation of the Constitution, my next question is how do you define the phrase “promote the general welfare”? 
 

How do I define that phrase?  Well since a preamble, which that phrase is a part of,  does not confer additional powers to those granted or recognized in a statute or constitution,  it is just a "nice too have" feel-good statement of little real substance.

I'll also point you here: https://individualrightsgovernmentwrongs.com/founding-fathers/the-founders-and-the-general-welfare/

Quote

The Constitution limits the powers of the Federal government. However, even a perfect document cannot stand up to philosophical evasion and corruption. Without the proper moral base, the principles of the Constitution could not be defended, much less kept alive.

To illustrate this, let us consider a few words in the preamble of the Constitution—what is commonly called the general welfare clause. This clause states that one of the reasons for the Constitution is to “promote the general welfare”.

As they are commonly used, terms such as “general welfare”, or “common good,” or “public interest” are undefinable. As these terms are generally used, they mean that society is to be considered apart from the individuals comprising it. The good of society supersedes the good of any individual.

There is no such entity as “the public”, there are only individuals. These terms actually mean that some individuals take precedence over other individuals, that some may impose their values on others.

The Founders, particularly Madison, understood that the general welfare clause could be abused. In the debate over the Cod Fishery Bill in 1792, Madison stated:

If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion in to their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county, and parish and pay them out of the public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor . . . Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited government established by the people of America.

Thomas Jefferson called the phrase “a mere ‘grammatical quibble’ that has countenanced the general government in a claim of universal power”. He mistakenly believed that the Founder’s had clarified their intentions and meaning, and debate over the meaning of the phrase would cease.

The Founders clearly understood the “general welfare” to mean the good of all citizens, not an open-ended mandate for Congress. The only good that applies to all citizens is freedom, and government’s proper role is the protection of that freedom. That was the meaning intended by the Founders.

Those who sought to expand government’s powers chose to ignore the explanations offered by the Founders. Corrupted by bad philosophy, they rejected the principles of the Founders and of the Constitution.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Muda69

[Muda69]

3 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

This is an incomplete sentence.

Yes it is.  Do you have anything of real substance to add to this discussion?