The Coronavirus - a virus from eating bats, an accident or something sinister gone wrong?

[Muda69]

2 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

We'll never know. Ingesting disinfectants is the latest recommendation.

Who here on the GID has ever taken the recommendation of a sitting POTUS to heart, and actually acted on that recommendation? 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-disinfectant-sunlight-science/index.html

Quote

...

In an eye-popping moment, Trump doubled down on his claim that sunlight and the festering humidity of high summer could purge the virus in his latest grab for a game-changer therapy.

 

Then, he asked aides on camera whether zapping patients with light or injecting disinfectant into the lungs to clean sick patients from inside could cure them of the disease.

"Maybe you can, maybe you can't. Again I say maybe you can, maybe you can't. I'm not a doctor. I'm like a person who has a good you-know-what," Trump said, pointing to his head.

...

Hmm. Mr. Trump is a moron, but I don't see this quote as a "recommendation" that an individual ingest disinfectant into their lungs.  

TDS

 

 

[gonzoron]

3 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Who here on the GID has ever taken the recommendation of a sitting POTUS to heart, and actually acted on that recommendation?

Howard

[Muda69]

22 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Howard

Who is Howard?

 

[Muda69]

[Muda69]

The COVID-19 Economic Collapse Is Absolutely Wrecking State Pension Systems

https://reason.com/2020/04/24/the-covid-19-economic-collapse-is-decimating-state-pension-systems/

Quote

Even after an impressive bull run on the stock market, state pension funds across the country were facing more than $1 trillion in unfunded debts even before the COVID-19 pandemic struck.

Now, the gap between what pension funds have promised to current workers and retirees and the funds available to make those payments is expected to grow—perhaps quite dramatically.

With some investment returns likely declining by as much as 15 percent this year, thanks to the COVID-19 pandemic, states are going to face a cumulative pension debt of between $1.5 trillion and $2 trillion by the end of the year. That's according to separate estimates released this week, first by Reason Foundation (which publishes this Reason) and shortly after by the Pew Charitable Trusts.

But the aggregate numbers are only so useful. Some state pension systems were nearly fully funded before the current crisis, and therefore figure to be in better shape to survive it without major problems. States like Kentucky, Illinois, and New Jersey were already in terrible shape are now facing a serious crisis.

"Worse, this is coming after a decadelong bull run in the markets where pensions failed to gain much, if any, ground in terms of funding after the last downturn," says Len Gilroy, managing director of the Reason Foundation's Pension Integrity Project. "It's becoming apparent that we've just experienced a Lost Decade for public pension solvency and that policy makers will need to abandon the failed myth that they can invest their way out of this problem."

We won't know for sure how badly state pension systems got whacked by the coronavirus-induced economic crash until later in the year, but a new tool released by the Reason Foundation's pension integrity project offers a glimpse into the potential damage. Using current data from state pension plans and forecasted investment losses, the tool estimates how much more debt states could be facing by the end of the year.

If its investments lose 15 percent this year, for example, New Jersey's teachers' pension system would find itself with a mere 30 percent of the assets necessary to cover its long-term costs, and with an unfunded liability of more than $40 billion. Illinois' teachers pension plan would be more than $75 billion in the red if it sees similar losses this year.

The economic downturn creates a one-two punch for state pensions. Because of the way most public pension funds are structured, lower-than-anticipated investment returns must be made up with tax dollars. But, now, states are also expecting steep drops in tax revenue.

Already, those prospects are causing some state officials to seek a federal bailout. New Jersey State Senate President Stephen Sweeney has called for the feds to offer low-interest loans to states facing severe pension problems.

But federal taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook to pay for states' mistakes. There have been plenty of warning signs that public pension systems were in trouble.

"Public pension systems may be more vulnerable to an economic downturn than they have ever been," Greg Mennis, Susan Banta, and David Draine, three researchers at the Harvard Kennedy School, concluded in a 2018 analysis that "stress tested" each state's pension system.

Even if annual returns averaged 5 percent, they found, some deeply indebted pension plans in places such as Kentucky and New Jersey would face insolvency. A major economic downturn would be enough to force middle-of-the-road states like Colorado, Ohio, and Pennsylvania to require taxpayer-funded contributions that "may be unaffordable" to avoid insolvency, they wrote.

For years, states have been warned to stop making unrealistic promises about investment returns—a trick used to make shortfalls look smaller than they really are—and to fully fund their retirement systems instead of deferring payments to later years. Both strategies are widespread in state pension systems, and both have contributed to the mess that states now face. Policy makers have clung to the belief that reforms were unnecessary because future investment growth would close the funding gaps.

That idea should now be dispelled. Even a decade of growth wasn't enough for many pensions to fully recover from the last recession—and that should have been a warning right there, if policy makers were paying attention. Now, the deluge.

Sorry,  I shouldn't have to have the federal taxes I pay go to cover the failures of the public pension programs in other states.  They should succeed or fail on their own merits.

 

[Howe]

4 hours ago, gonzoron said:

Still wrapping my head around a bunch of Trump Groupies believing a drug that's been on the market for 65 years to treat malaria and diabetes is effective against a new Virus strain even though there is no other evidence to support this claim.

 

[gonzoron]

36 minutes ago, Howe said:

 

Clinical trial and peer review? More anecdotal evidence by the brainwashed Trump Groupies.

[Howe]

38 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Clinical trial and peer review? More anecdotal evidence by the brainwashed Trump Groupies.

I was not aware that black female Democrat lawmakers from Detroit qualified as “Trump Groupies”.

[Muda69]

Just now, Howe said:

I was not aware that black female Democrat lawmakers from Detroit qualified as “Trump Groupies”.

It's obvious that only "Trump Groupies" would want to be treated with hydroxychloroquine in the first place.  Right?

 

 

[gonzoron]

4 minutes ago, Howe said:

I was not aware that black female Democrat lawmakers from Detroit qualified as “Trump Groupies”.

That would be the ones touting the anecdotal evidence that the drug works. One person recovered who happened to use it, doesn't mean that's what "cured" her. No clinical evidence is available to prove it's effectiveness. Next we'll be hearing about those who were cured by injecting Lysol.

[Bobref]

8 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

That would be the ones touting the anecdotal evidence that the drug works. One person recovered who happened to use it, doesn't mean that's what "cured" her. No clinical evidence is available to prove it's effectiveness. Next we'll be hearing about those who were cured by injecting Lysol.

That’s just silly. Everyone knows that Lysol is administered by suppository. 🥺😖😷

[Howe]

27 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

That would be the ones touting the anecdotal evidence that the drug works. One person recovered who happened to use it, doesn't mean that's what "cured" her. No clinical evidence is available to prove it's effectiveness. Next we'll be hearing about those who were cured by injecting Lysol.

That is not true. I have posted multiple videos and articles of people who are convinced hydroxychloroquine worked for them. I have also posted multiple videos and articles of doctors who support the hydroxychloroquine treatment and are convinced of it's results.

The GID Democrats who suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome pretend to know more than actual coronavirus patients and doctors who are treating these patients.

[gonzoron]

14 minutes ago, Howe said:

I have posted multiple videos and articles of people who are convinced hydroxychloroquine worked for them. I have also posted multiple videos and articles of doctors who support the hydroxychloroquine treatment and are convinced of it's results.

Yes, that's what I said. All anecdotal. No clinical trials or peer reviewed proof.

[Howe]

12 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Yes, that's what I said. All anecdotal. No clinical trials or peer reviewed proof.

  1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

 One person recovered who happened to use it

[gonzoron]

4 minutes ago, Howe said:

 

Anecdotal, whether it's one or ten that you've found. Where is your link to a clinical study?

[Howe]

3 hours ago, gonzoron said:

Anecdotal, whether it's one or ten that you've found. Where is your link to a clinical study?

That black female Democrat lawmaker from Detroit certainly expressed her gratitude to "President Trump and hydroxychoroquine for saving her life".

[Bobref]

5 minutes ago, Howe said:

That black female Democrat lawmaker from Detroit certainly expressed her gratitude to "President Trump and hydroxychoroquine for saving her life".

Junk science.

[Howe]

14 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Junk science.

Zantac had controlled clinical trials,  peer review studies and FDA approval. It was sold over the counter for 30 years only to be recalled and banned because “science” indicates it causes cancer. I have taken 1,000 or more tablets of Zantac over the past 20 years. I realize science is not a quick process but 30 years is ridiculous.

[DanteEstonia]

44 minutes ago, Howe said:

Zantac had controlled clinical trials,  peer review studies and FDA approval. It was sold over the counter for 30 years only to be recalled and banned because “science” indicates it causes cancer. I have taken 1,000 or more tablets of Zantac over the past 20 years. I realize science is not a quick process but 30 years is ridiculous.

The recall was due to CONTAMINATION, not a fault with the drug itself. 
 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ranitidine-zantac-recall-expanded-many-questions-remain-2020040218044

 

 

[Howe]

6 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

The recall was due to CONTAMINATION, not a fault with the drug itself. 
 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/ranitidine-zantac-recall-expanded-many-questions-remain-2020040218044

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/zantac-cancer-fda.html

[DanteEstonia]

1 minute ago, Howe said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/health/zantac-cancer-fda.html

RTFFA

[Bobref]

4 minutes ago, Howe said:

Zantac had controlled clinical trials,  peer review studies and FDA approval. It was sold over the counter for 30 years only to be recalled and banned because “science” indicates it causes cancer. I have taken 1,000 or more tablets of Zantac over the past 20 years. I realize science is not a quick process but 30 years is ridiculous.

The drug ranitidine does not cause cancer. Small amounts of NDMA, an impurity, was found, and testing determined that, as the medication ages in storage, the amount of NDMA can increase, depending on the conditions under which it is stored. NDMA is a probable human carcinogen ... in high doses. Hence, the recall. This was a flaw in the manufacturing process, not in the evaluation of the drug.

[Muda69]

Michigan Gov. Rolls Back Some of State's More Insane Coronavirus Restrictions

https://reason.com/2020/04/24/michigan-governor-gretchen-whitmer-rolls-back-states-more-insane-coronavirus-covid-19-restrictions/

Quote

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer (D) announced Friday that she is rolling back several of the more arbitrary and contentious restrictions in the state's stay-at-home order.

Whitmer received a steady stream of criticism after announcing the measure on April 9, with people inside and outside the state insisting her orders were overly restrictive and nonsensical. Among the more pilloried provisions was a ban on traveling between any two Michigan residences and a shuttering of lawn care services. It prevented big box stores from selling certain items like paint and plants, meaning establishments like Home Depot had to tape those aisles off from customers. It prohibited the use of motorboats, but it allowed the use of boats without motors.

Four Michigan sheriffs announced in a letter last week that they would not enforce parts of the order, which they said represented a violation of individual rights. "We write today to inform the public for our respective counties of our opposition to some of Governor Whitmer's executive orders," they said. "While we understand her desire to protect the public, we question some restrictions that she has imposed as overstepping her executive authority."

After that letter was made public, "Operation Gridlock" saw protesters assemble outside the Michigan Capitol, ditching social-distancing guidelines and throwing caution to the wind. Though many protesters displayed a dangerously blasé attitude toward social distancing measures, it's safe to say that Whitmer overplayed her hand in issuing such dramatic restrictions that simultaneously banned "all public and private gatherings of any number of people occurring among persons not part of a single household," but still permitted the sale of lottery tickets.

Although Whitmer extended the stay-at-home order through May 15, all of those measures have been lifted "effective immediately." Residents may go back and forth between residences, as long as they aren't heading to vacation rentals. Landscaping businesses, garden stores, nurseries, and lawn care services are allowed to restart their engines, although they must abide by enhanced social distancing orders that ensure that only the minimum required workers are on the clock at the same time. Big box stores are no longer legally obligated to section off "nonessential" sections. Golfers can return to the course as long as they remain six feet apart.

"We will consider this the preliminary stage for economic re-engagement," Whitmer said at a Friday press conference. "If we continue to see our numbers decline, we can responsibly consider additional steps."

Michigan's COVID-19 cases began to show signs of abating this week, perhaps providing the impetus for Whitmer to reconsider. But the mounting pushback she saw from constituents and leaders in her community also likely proved influential in her decision.

 

[DanteEstonia]

13 hours ago, Bobref said:

The drug ranitidine does not cause cancer. Small amounts of NDMA, an impurity, was found, and testing determined that, as the medication ages in storage, the amount of NDMA can increase, depending on the conditions under which it is stored. NDMA is a probable human carcinogen ... in high doses. Hence, the recall. This was a flaw in the manufacturing process, not in the evaluation of the drug.

My aunt was on the development team for Axiron. She said one of the environmental factors that wasn’t thoroughly tested on the first round of trials was how the drug interacted with women’s clothing; turns out, the formulation clung to yoga pants!

[gonzoron]