New Donald Trump thread

Irishman · March 4, 2019

1 minute ago, swordfish said:

Bernie is 77, Biden is 76. Both are nuttier than fruitcakes already .....

no doubt

swordfish · March 4, 2019

16 hours ago, Wabash82 said:

The ONLY way Hillary runs is if the Mueller investigation drops some bombshell that shows that Trump literally stole the election from her, through colluding with the Russians to hack voting machines in Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania. I rate that to be as likely to occur as Swordfish quitting his job to volunteer for Greenpeace to fight climate change.

BTW - (IMHO) you can bank on the "Obstruction of Justice investigation" resulting in anything but static distraction.....

Muda69 · March 4, 2019

swordfish · March 4, 2019

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/in-an-emotional-moment-rep-mark-meadows-and-rep-rashida-tlaib-argue-over-race-1449428035860

Muda69 · March 5, 2019

The Green New Deal and 'Socialist' Democrats Are Normalizing Trump: http://reason.com/blog/2019/03/05/the-green-new-deal-and-socialist-democra

Quote

Remember back when Donald Trump was just getting elected and people worried about "normalizing" him and the "extinction-level threat" he posed not just to the United States but the whole of Western civilization? The rude and often disgusting ways he vilified people (especially women), his proud ignorance of basic elements of American governance and policymaking, his calls for violence against hecklers at his rallies—all this and more marked Trump as a break with recent precedent.

Two years into his presidency and about 46 percent of Americans have indeed normalized Trump. That's where his approval rating has settled in a new NBC/Wall Street Journalpoll. Over at RealClearPolitics, which averages a bunch of different polls, his approval rating is currently 44 percent. Over the past six months, it's been mostly bouncing around in the low- to mid-40s as well. This represents progress for Trump, who was stuck in the 30s for most of the second half of 2017. About 40 percent of respondents said that will vote for him in 2020. That doesn't sound good, but it's about where Bill Clinton was at the same point in his presidency.

So what happened? Lots of stuff, including first and foremost the simple fact that the world hasn't ended yet on his watch. The economy is still growing, albeit weakly in comparison both to what Trump promised and the postwar historical average. Just one in three of us think there will be a recession in the next year, according to that NBC/WSJ poll. A year ago, 64 percent of us figured a crash was coming. Unemployment is low and wages are growing. He was instrumental in passing a major tax bill, he supported criminal justice reform, and he signed "right to try" legislation. He's talking about pulling out of wars that long ago lost public support. (For an official White House list of accomplishments, go here.) Perhaps more of us are starting to realize that "Trump Is More Like Recent Presidents than Anyone Wants To Admit" (that's not a compliment, by the way, it's just reality) and also that American cultural and political institutions are capable of hemming in his worst tendencies. He lost the showdown over the government shutdown. The Democrats winning the House in the midterms might make it easier for people to be at peace with the idea of President Trump. A divided government is one that, at least to some extent, will limit any given party's or person's power.

At the same time, I want to suggest that one of the biggest factors in "normalizing" Trump is the rise of self-proclaimed socialists in the Democratic Party. This was a theme in Trump's Castro-length performance-art masterpiece at Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) on Saturday, during which he begged the Democrats to run on Green New Deal (GND) policies that would give the government massive new powers not simply in the energy sector but in health care and labor markets too. For a rundown of just how expansive the GND being pushed by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) and Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) will be, go here. In his State of the Union address, Trump declared that "America will never be a socialist nation" and if the GND isn't textbook socialism, it's close enough for government work. As I noted over the weekend, the agenda and statements of progressive Democrats make Trump seem much more mainstream, as do "comments, however short-lived, by Democrats such as Kamala Harris, who at one point recently called for an end to private health care. And over 100 House Democrats have signed on to a plan that would end private health insurance in two years."

Indeed, for all the talk of the growing popularity of socialism, especially among younger people, over the past couple of years, the fact remains that Americans generally don't like the term or its connotations. The NBC/WSJ poll asked respondents whether they had positive or negative reactions to various people and ideas. When it came to socialism, just 18 percent of people had "very" or "somewhat" positive feelings about socialism, while 50 had negative feelings. For capitalism, the percentages were reversed, with 50 percent being positive and 19 percent being negative.

To the extent that the Democrats take on the mantle of socialism or allow Donald Trump to tag them with it, they will not only make him seem more and more mainstream and acceptable, they will almost surely lose the 2020 presidential election.

swordfish · March 5, 2019

2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

The Green New Deal and 'Socialist' Democrats Are Normalizing Trump: http://reason.com/blog/2019/03/05/the-green-new-deal-and-socialist-democra

Shhh - don't tell em that.......

BARRYOSAMA · March 5, 2019

2 hours ago, swordfish said:

Shhh - don't tell em that.......

64 percent still thinks he's a crook

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2603

Muda69 · March 6, 2019

House Democrats announce broad probe into allegations of obstruction of justice: https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/04/politics/congress-investigates-obstruction-justice-jerry-nadler/index.html

Quote

House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler on Monday announced a sweeping investigation into President Donald Trump's campaign, businesses, transition and administration, a probe that would lay the groundwork for Democrats if they choose to pursue impeachment proceedings against the President.

The Judiciary Committee on Monday sent letters to 81 people and entities -- including the White House, the Justice Department, senior campaign officials, Trump Organization officials and the President's sons — marking the start of a broad investigation that will tackle questions including possible corruption, obstruction of justice, hush-money payments to women, collusion with Russia and allegations of the President abusing his office and using it for personal gain.

They are demanding responses within two weeks.

The requests outline a sprawling investigation, seeking documents and communications on issues that include FBI Director James Comey's firing, possible pardons offered to Trump officials, Trump's finances and foreign governments, "catch-and-kill" payments involving the National Enquirer's parent company and Trump, Trump campaign contacts with Russians and WikiLeaks and communications between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The committee's investigation comes amid the anticipated conclusion of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into possible collusion and obstruction of justice, signaling the committee is likely to retread ground that federal prosecutors have already pursued. Many of the same witnesses that the Judiciary Committee is now requesting information from have already spoken to Mueller's prosecutors and the grand jury.

The wide net cast by the committee also signals that the Democratic-led investigations are likely to stretch on for months, with multiple committees seeking information from senior officials in the White House, the Trump campaign and the Trump Organization.

...

So much for Congress getting anything of substance done, but then again that can be a good thing. The body has devolved into nothing but a bunch of squabbling children, jockeying for power, money, and one-upping each other.

gonzoron · March 6, 2019

40 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

The body has devolved into nothing but a bunch of squabbling children

Just like the OOB club

Muda69 · March 6, 2019

3 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Just like the OOB club

But that is mostly by design.

swordfish · March 6, 2019

On 2/15/2019 at 4:48 PM, Wabash82 said:

You seem to be implying that the level of illegal immigration has been unabated since the Reagan years, which obviously is not true.

The question of whether (and if so, what) we need to do about the 11 million illegals already here -- most of whom have been here for quite awhile-- is a completely separate question from whether we need to be doing something new or different today from the (apparently fairly successful) things we have been doing over the last 30 years to mitigate or limit further illegal immigration. Or, even if we do decide we do need to do something new or different, whether building "The Wall" (however that is being redefined this particular week/day/hour/minute by the President) is the right thing to do to achieve that goal.

The notion that, because some Democrats voted in past years to add or upgrade fencing along some parts of the border, current Democrats are being hypocritical not to support the President's undefined, amorphous Wall, is akin to saying that all Republicans who today don't support the Dreamers Act are hypocrites, because many Republicans supported the Reagan era "amnesty" for illegals.

On 2/16/2019 at 10:03 AM, gonzoron said:

A Weak and Rambling President Declares a Fake National Emergency

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/a-weak-and-rambling-president-declares-a-fake-national-emergency?fbclid=IwAR3FeIxf2DdhTHpyJ_rAw3i5tdq3MZ6HAhA7UJwmiz8YuU5AfqKoq8wBEpU

https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-migrant-families-arrested-at-border-in-five-months-than-any-previous-full-year-11551810657

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/05/illegal-immigration-under-trump-projected-to-surpass-obama-era-levels/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/5/illegal-immigration-worst-rate-2007/

Illegal immigration continues to break records on the southwestern border — and they’re not good ones.

The number of families snared trying to sneak into the U.S. soared by 50 percent in one month alone, setting an all-time record with more than 36,000 family members apprehended, Homeland Security officials announced Tuesday.

The government has also encountered some 70 groups of at least 100 migrants during the first five months of the fiscal year, shattering records and placing new challenges on Border Patrol agents.

The mini-caravans are being funneled to some of the remotest parts of the border, where there is little in the way of medical help and it takes hours to process and transport the groups. That takes agents off the line, and drug smugglers use the distraction to send across their shipments, top border officials said.

“We are facing alarming trends,” said Kevin K. McAleenan, commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

He said the numbers signal the existence of an immigration and humanitarian crisis, reinforcing President Trump’s assertion of an emergency necessitating his redirection of money to build a border wall.

Overall, Border Patrol agents nabbed 66,450 illegal immigrants last month, marking the worst February since 2008. Of those, 6,825 were unaccompanied alien children — juveniles who arrived at the border without any parent. Another 36,174 were family members — a majority of the total and a record-shattering number.

The previous high was 27,507 family members in December. Before fiscal 2019, the government had never topped 17,000 family members in any month on record. It has now done so in each of the past five months.

In addition to the Border Patrol, CBP officers who man the ports of entry encountered another 9,653 migrants who tried to enter without authorization.

That is a slight drop from the past few months, and it suggests that illegal immigrants are defying the government’s goal of having them show up at ports of entry to be processed.

An inspector general’s report last year said CBP officers were throttling the pace of people allowed to show up and demand asylum at the ports of entry, and some then attempted to sneak across the border instead.

CBP officials say it’s smugglers who determine where migrants enter.

Indeed, the formation of mini-caravans is a tactic used by smugglers, officials said Tuesday. The same cartels control drugs and human smuggling, and they use migrants as a distraction by sending a large group of people to occupy agents’ attention and then try to slip drugs into the U.S. in another location.

“We have four specific cases here recently that we’ve seen those family units used as a diversionary tactic,” said Brian Hastings, chief of law enforcement operations at the Border Patrol.

Caravans as large as 300 people are delivered to places such as Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument, a beautiful but rugged location in southern Arizona that is far from any substantial infrastructure or medical care.

In just five months of the current fiscal year, agents have encountered 70 large groups, defined as those of 100 or more migrants. The previous year’s total was 13 large groups.

All told, nearly 160,000 unaccompanied alien children and family members have been encountered at the border over the past five months.

That is far more than the 120,000 encountered in 2014, when President Obama first called it a crisis, said Sen. Ron Johnson, Wisconsin Republican and chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

“It was a humanitarian crisis in 2014, and it is a growing crisis today. It is well past time to develop bipartisan solutions to secure our border and fix our horribly broken immigration system,” he said.

Mr. McAleenan suggested some options Tuesday, including investing in Central America, targeting the multibillion-dollar smuggling organizations that funnel the migrants north, constructing more border wall and changing laws to end incentives to migrate to the U.S.

At current rates, the Border Patrol is on track to arrest more than 780,000 people trying to sneak across the southwestern border, which would be the highest total since 2007 — before the government’s last wall-building spree.

Officials said the current numbers show that a majority of the migrants are children and families from Central America. Under U.S. policy, they are much tougher to deport.

That only invites more to make the journey, said Chief Hastings.

“The word of mouth and social media quickly gets back to those in northern triangle countries: If you bring a child, you’ll be successful,” Chief Hastings said.

The number of people caught at the border is generally considered a proxy for the total flow of illegal immigration, so more apprehensions is believed to mean more people are attempting to cross.

However, Mr. McAleenan acknowledged that the formula has changed in recent years based on the new demographics of the migrants.

In the past, when most were single adults from Mexico and a majority were men, their goal was to evade capture. Now, the children and families from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador — dubbed the northern triangle countries — want to be caught.

After sneaking across the border, they often “present” themselves to Border Patrol agents and demand asylum, certain that they will be quickly released into communities to await a process that can take years — giving them a chance to disappear into the shadows.

Mr. McAleenan said the surge of children and families has grown worse in the past few months as smuggling organizations begin to use charter buses to ferry migrants from Guatemala, in particular, to remote locations at the border in Arizona and New Mexico.

Buses also mean more migrants who would normally not be able to make the journey by foot are traveling, and it’s meant a surge in sick people arriving at the border.

Fifty-five migrants a day are being sent to clinics or hospitals for care, and the Border Patrol says it’s on track for 31,000 total this year. That is up from 12,000 last year.

Agents have to accompany each of those migrants, taking them away from enforcement duties.

Chief Hastings said his agents have logged 57,000 hours of medical watch so far this fiscal year.

Yeah, there's no crisis......

gonzoron · March 6, 2019

Fake News.

foxbat · March 7, 2019

1 hour ago, swordfish said:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/more-migrant-families-arrested-at-border-in-five-months-than-any-previous-full-year-11551810657

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/03/05/illegal-immigration-under-trump-projected-to-surpass-obama-era-levels/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/5/illegal-immigration-worst-rate-2007/

Illegal immigration continues to break records on the southwestern border — and they’re not good ones.

The number of families snared trying to sneak into the U.S. soared by 50 percent in one month alone, setting an all-time record with more than 36,000 family members apprehended, Homeland Security officials announced Tuesday.

The government has also encountered some 70 groups of at least 100 migrants during the first five months of the fiscal year, shattering records and placing new challenges on Border Patrol agents.

The mini-caravans are being funneled to some of the remotest parts of the border, where there is little in the way of medical help and it takes hours to process and transport the groups. That takes agents off the line, and drug smugglers use the distraction to send across their shipments, top border officials said.

“We are facing alarming trends,” said Kevin K. McAleenan, commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

He said the numbers signal the existence of an immigration and humanitarian crisis, reinforcing President Trump’s assertion of an emergency necessitating his redirection of money to build a border wall.

Overall, Border Patrol agents nabbed 66,450 illegal immigrants last month, marking the worst February since 2008. Of those, 6,825 were unaccompanied alien children — juveniles who arrived at the border without any parent. Another 36,174 were family members — a majority of the total and a record-shattering number.

The previous high was 27,507 family members in December. Before fiscal 2019, the government had never topped 17,000 family members in any month on record. It has now done so in each of the past five months.

In addition to the Border Patrol, CBP officers who man the ports of entry encountered another 9,653 migrants who tried to enter without authorization.

That is a slight drop from the past few months, and it suggests that illegal immigrants are defying the government’s goal of having them show up at ports of entry to be processed.

An inspector general’s report last year said CBP officers were throttling the pace of people allowed to show up and demand asylum at the ports of entry, and some then attempted to sneak across the border instead.

CBP officials say it’s smugglers who determine where migrants enter.

Indeed, the formation of mini-caravans is a tactic used by smugglers, officials said Tuesday. The same cartels control drugs and human smuggling, and they use migrants as a distraction by sending a large group of people to occupy agents’ attention and then try to slip drugs into the U.S. in another location.

“We have four specific cases here recently that we’ve seen those family units used as a diversionary tactic,” said Brian Hastings, chief of law enforcement operations at the Border Patrol.

Caravans as large as 300 people are delivered to places such as Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument, a beautiful but rugged location in southern Arizona that is far from any substantial infrastructure or medical care.

In just five months of the current fiscal year, agents have encountered 70 large groups, defined as those of 100 or more migrants. The previous year’s total was 13 large groups.

All told, nearly 160,000 unaccompanied alien children and family members have been encountered at the border over the past five months.

That is far more than the 120,000 encountered in 2014, when President Obama first called it a crisis, said Sen. Ron Johnson, Wisconsin Republican and chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

“It was a humanitarian crisis in 2014, and it is a growing crisis today. It is well past time to develop bipartisan solutions to secure our border and fix our horribly broken immigration system,” he said.

Mr. McAleenan suggested some options Tuesday, including investing in Central America, targeting the multibillion-dollar smuggling organizations that funnel the migrants north, constructing more border wall and changing laws to end incentives to migrate to the U.S.

At current rates, the Border Patrol is on track to arrest more than 780,000 people trying to sneak across the southwestern border, which would be the highest total since 2007 — before the government’s last wall-building spree.

Officials said the current numbers show that a majority of the migrants are children and families from Central America. Under U.S. policy, they are much tougher to deport.

That only invites more to make the journey, said Chief Hastings.

“The word of mouth and social media quickly gets back to those in northern triangle countries: If you bring a child, you’ll be successful,” Chief Hastings said.

The number of people caught at the border is generally considered a proxy for the total flow of illegal immigration, so more apprehensions is believed to mean more people are attempting to cross.

However, Mr. McAleenan acknowledged that the formula has changed in recent years based on the new demographics of the migrants.

In the past, when most were single adults from Mexico and a majority were men, their goal was to evade capture. Now, the children and families from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador — dubbed the northern triangle countries — want to be caught.

After sneaking across the border, they often “present” themselves to Border Patrol agents and demand asylum, certain that they will be quickly released into communities to await a process that can take years — giving them a chance to disappear into the shadows.

Mr. McAleenan said the surge of children and families has grown worse in the past few months as smuggling organizations begin to use charter buses to ferry migrants from Guatemala, in particular, to remote locations at the border in Arizona and New Mexico.

Buses also mean more migrants who would normally not be able to make the journey by foot are traveling, and it’s meant a surge in sick people arriving at the border.

Fifty-five migrants a day are being sent to clinics or hospitals for care, and the Border Patrol says it’s on track for 31,000 total this year. That is up from 12,000 last year.

Agents have to accompany each of those migrants, taking them away from enforcement duties.

Chief Hastings said his agents have logged 57,000 hours of medical watch so far this fiscal year.

Yeah, there's no crisis......

Yeah, I'm still not buying it. By the way the crisis use is fairly disingenuous both by the President and the WashTimes and conservatives like Ron Johnson.

The numbers are still WAY off from anything that we had during the peak years prior to the recession:

Obama oversaw a drop in apprehensions that was slightly more than a 42% drop from 2008 to 2016. Even pre-recession, there was never a power-grab attempt like the President's "emergency."

Let's take a look at the crisis issue by the way. Let's take Senator Johnson's statement to start with as a way that this thing is being twisted. What President Obama stated was a humanitarian crisis was tied heavily to the idea of unaccompanied minors coming to the US ... something new that hadn't been seen in this fashion before and required a different way of handling to avoid the different and dangerous circumstances surrounding processing unaccompanied minors vs. adults crossing. If Trump's "emergency" was about garnering money to handle the similar crisis of unaccompanied minors, then he would have asked for $5.7 billion or whatever number he still hasn't settled on in the form of more people to process unaccompanied minors, more processing at ports of entry, more immigration judges to attack the backlog, etc. Not money for his wall. Trump would have been better off thinking things through and playing the humanitarian crisis much earlier and with much more sincerity. The problem is that Miller wanted what he wanted and Trump didn't care how it looked ... he wanted a news story right now and the wall played to his base, so that's what he went with. Now he's trying to put lipstick on that pig and sell it as a vegetarian special at the BBQ food cart. Johnson and the WashTimes are disingenuous trying to equate unaccompanied minors and the issues there with the emergency and the wall. This is like the guy driving the moped in Indiana who tries to convince you that he's doing it for the planet as he lights his next cigarette of the one currently in his mouth and tosses the spent butt on the ground. Sounds like a nice story, but kind of hard to buy.

As for the increase in family member apprehensions, yes, off course that's going to be up as that's a new trend that has been seen, but frankly it's a swap in numbers. In the past, a big part of what you saw were singles crossing the border ... now that trend is more family. Those families have supplanted singles. Instead of five single guys crossing the border, what you are likely to see now is a family of five. It's not an exact swap, but it's not anywhere close to a family of five plus the original five single guys.

Now let's take a look at many of the causes ... many of which are directly tied to the President and his policies. There's a throttling component that has been seen at ports of entry. Artificially delaying or slowing the processes means that folks look for other alternatives. The President and his people have been threatening to reduce legal immigration since he took office. Why? No real reason ... just feels like it ... or actually more like he wants a different type of people coming in tied to immigration. Folks end up seeing less legal options. The US has been processing some asylum seekers incorrectly and denying their opportunity to obtain even an asylum interview in some cases. Other attacks on legal immigration, while seemingly unrelated, change the perception, and possibly reality, of fair treatment. When folks understand and trust the system, they may be much more willing to abide by the system ... even if the potential outcome is negative. There's a general myth put out by Trump and parroted about how, if you accept someone for asylum and then turn them lose in society until they finally get their trial/hearing that no one will come back. A pilot program by the Obama administration, Family Case Management Program, in five pilot cities, saw 99% compliance with ICE check-ins and appointments while awaiting their asylum case outcomes. That program, however, was cancelled by Trump. The President's rhetoric as well as direct actions, including Sessions "zero tolerance" stuff that threw a wrench into immigration processes have all ratcheted up the propensity for folks, who may well have been willing to come through ports of entry or wait in lines, to find ANY way to get here now.

In the end though, and tossing out all of the numbers and reasons, what conservatives and Trump followers are failing to address with a story like this is:

Trump claimed that his stance on immigration caused a major drop in people crossing the border illegally compared to Obama. In 2017 the numbers dropped, but now they aren't? What changed? Did Obama take his fences with him when he left office and illegal immigrants just didn't find out until 2018/2019? Is there a "deep state" at ICE and CBP letting folks across illegally to embarrass Trump? Were all of those people able to do their job under Obama, who by the way had a pretty high record of deportations, even compared to Bush, but somehow or another are just collecting a paycheck under Trump?
Trump claims that he's built walls ... despite the fact that it's mainly repair work or completion of stuff that was started before he got into office. If there is all of this "new construction," then why has this emergency all of a sudden sprung up? Did someone forget to spray "immigrant repellent" on the walls during the final construction? Did they forget to put up the pictures of Trump with the caption "Stay out! I really mean it!"?
According to the WashTimes article, which focuses on this localized spike, but extrapolates outward, Trump is on track to have a higher immigration problem than Obama did, although less than Bush. What happened? The only emergency here, which tends to be almost par for the course, is that Trump makes and outlandish claim, takes credit for something, and then it goes sour. We're still short, by almost half a million though or where we were in the Bush years even if the WashTimes extrapolation comes to pass. If I hold a baseball right up to my eye, it certainly looks bigger than the moon, but when I step back and look at it in comparison and in context, it's not nearly likely to have any impact on the tides.

BARRYOSAMA · March 7, 2019

SF prefers alternative facts

swordfish · March 7, 2019

12 hours ago, foxbat said:

Yeah, I'm still not buying it. By the way the crisis use is fairly disingenuous both by the President and the WashTimes and conservatives like Ron Johnson.

The numbers are still WAY off from anything that we had during the peak years prior to the recession:

Obama oversaw a drop in apprehensions that was slightly more than a 42% drop from 2008 to 2016. Even pre-recession, there was never a power-grab attempt like the President's "emergency."

Let's take a look at the crisis issue by the way. Let's take Senator Johnson's statement to start with as a way that this thing is being twisted. What President Obama stated was a humanitarian crisis was tied heavily to the idea of unaccompanied minors coming to the US ... something new that hadn't been seen in this fashion before and required a different way of handling to avoid the different and dangerous circumstances surrounding processing unaccompanied minors vs. adults crossing. If Trump's "emergency" was about garnering money to handle the similar crisis of unaccompanied minors, then he would have asked for $5.7 billion or whatever number he still hasn't settled on in the form of more people to process unaccompanied minors, more processing at ports of entry, more immigration judges to attack the backlog, etc. Not money for his wall. Trump would have been better off thinking things through and playing the humanitarian crisis much earlier and with much more sincerity. The problem is that Miller wanted what he wanted and Trump didn't care how it looked ... he wanted a news story right now and the wall played to his base, so that's what he went with. Now he's trying to put lipstick on that pig and sell it as a vegetarian special at the BBQ food cart. Johnson and the WashTimes are disingenuous trying to equate unaccompanied minors and the issues there with the emergency and the wall. This is like the guy driving the moped in Indiana who tries to convince you that he's doing it for the planet as he lights his next cigarette of the one currently in his mouth and tosses the spent butt on the ground. Sounds like a nice story, but kind of hard to buy.

As for the increase in family member apprehensions, yes, off course that's going to be up as that's a new trend that has been seen, but frankly it's a swap in numbers. In the past, a big part of what you saw were singles crossing the border ... now that trend is more family. Those families have supplanted singles. Instead of five single guys crossing the border, what you are likely to see now is a family of five. It's not an exact swap, but it's not anywhere close to a family of five plus the original five single guys.

Now let's take a look at many of the causes ... many of which are directly tied to the President and his policies. There's a throttling component that has been seen at ports of entry. Artificially delaying or slowing the processes means that folks look for other alternatives. The President and his people have been threatening to reduce legal immigration since he took office. Why? No real reason ... just feels like it ... or actually more like he wants a different type of people coming in tied to immigration. Folks end up seeing less legal options. The US has been processing some asylum seekers incorrectly and denying their opportunity to obtain even an asylum interview in some cases. Other attacks on legal immigration, while seemingly unrelated, change the perception, and possibly reality, of fair treatment. When folks understand and trust the system, they may be much more willing to abide by the system ... even if the potential outcome is negative. There's a general myth put out by Trump and parroted about how, if you accept someone for asylum and then turn them lose in society until they finally get their trial/hearing that no one will come back. A pilot program by the Obama administration, Family Case Management Program, in five pilot cities, saw 99% compliance with ICE check-ins and appointments while awaiting their asylum case outcomes. That program, however, was cancelled by Trump. The President's rhetoric as well as direct actions, including Sessions "zero tolerance" stuff that threw a wrench into immigration processes have all ratcheted up the propensity for folks, who may well have been willing to come through ports of entry or wait in lines, to find ANY way to get here now.

In the end though, and tossing out all of the numbers and reasons, what conservatives and Trump followers are failing to address with a story like this is:

Trump claimed that his stance on immigration caused a major drop in people crossing the border illegally compared to Obama. In 2017 the numbers dropped, but now they aren't? What changed? Did Obama take his fences with him when he left office and illegal immigrants just didn't find out until 2018/2019? Is there a "deep state" at ICE and CBP letting folks across illegally to embarrass Trump? Were all of those people able to do their job under Obama, who by the way had a pretty high record of deportations, even compared to Bush, but somehow or another are just collecting a paycheck under Trump?

Trump claims that he's built walls ... despite the fact that it's mainly repair work or completion of stuff that was started before he got into office. If there is all of this "new construction," then why has this emergency all of a sudden sprung up? Did someone forget to spray "immigrant repellent" on the walls during the final construction? Did they forget to put up the pictures of Trump with the caption "Stay out! I really mean it!"?

According to the WashTimes article, which focuses on this localized spike, but extrapolates outward, Trump is on track to have a higher immigration problem than Obama did, although less than Bush. What happened? The only emergency here, which tends to be almost par for the course, is that Trump makes and outlandish claim, takes credit for something, and then it goes sour. We're still short, by almost half a million though or where we were in the Bush years even if the WashTimes extrapolation comes to pass. If I hold a baseball right up to my eye, it certainly looks bigger than the moon, but when I step back and look at it in comparison and in context, it's not nearly likely to have any impact on the tides.

Typically it is customary to post the link to indicate who the author is.......You may notice the Wall Street Journal, Washington Times and Brietbart were the links I posted so you can see the basis of my opinion.....

foxbat · March 7, 2019

31 minutes ago, swordfish said:

Typically it is customary to post the link to indicate who the author is.......You may notice the Wall Street Journal, Washington Times and Brietbart were the links I posted so you can see the basis of my opinion.....

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/6/18253444/border-statistics-illegal-immigration-trump

https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/obama-era-pilot-program-kept-asylum-seeking-migrant-families-together-n885896

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/10/us/politics/trump-asylum-border-.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/04/migrant-border-smuggling-us-policy-metering/2708632002/

https://www.voanews.com/a/lawsuit-challenges-us-border-turnbacks-metering/4685171.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-imagines-14-million-new-illegal-aliens

https://www.wsj.com/articles/illegal-immigration-is-down-but-asylum-requests-are-at-an-all-time-high-1544184001

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/12/19/federal-judge-overturns-white-house-asylum-policy/

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/11/07/the-immigration-crisis-jeff-sessions-leaves-behind

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/17/falling-illegal-immigration-numbers-confirm-no-border-crisis/#54a384c33fbc

https://qz.com/1525779/how-many-undocumented-immigrants-cross-the-border-with-mexico/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44319094

Not all of these were used to produce numbers or statements in the post, but instead is a decent sampling of what's out there to give foundation to my assertions.

foxbat · March 7, 2019

Deleted since it was a duplicate post of the above post.

Edited March 7, 2019 by foxbat

BARRYOSAMA · March 7, 2019

2 hours ago, swordfish said:

Typically it is customary to post the link to indicate who the author is.......You may notice the Wall Street Journal, Washington Times and Brietbart were the links I posted so you can see the basis of my opinion.....

Breitbart. lol

Muda69 · March 7, 2019

20 minutes ago, BARRYOSAMA said:

Breitbart. lol

NPR. lol

swordfish · March 7, 2019

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/6/18253444/border-statistics-illegal-immigration-trump

https://www.statista.com/statistics/329256/alien-apprehensions-registered-by-the-us-border-patrol/

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/obama-era-pilot-program-kept-asylum-seeking-migrant-families-together-n885896

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/10/us/politics/trump-asylum-border-.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/02/04/migrant-border-smuggling-us-policy-metering/2708632002/

https://www.voanews.com/a/lawsuit-challenges-us-border-turnbacks-metering/4685171.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-imagines-14-million-new-illegal-aliens

https://www.wsj.com/articles/illegal-immigration-is-down-but-asylum-requests-are-at-an-all-time-high-1544184001

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/12/19/federal-judge-overturns-white-house-asylum-policy/

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2018/11/07/the-immigration-crisis-jeff-sessions-leaves-behind

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/17/falling-illegal-immigration-numbers-confirm-no-border-crisis/#54a384c33fbc

https://qz.com/1525779/how-many-undocumented-immigrants-cross-the-border-with-mexico/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44319094

Not all of these were used to produce numbers or statements in the post, but instead is a decent sampling of what's out there to give foundation to my assertions.

So you are saying that you authored the post I referred to using the data picked from some of these posts? I mean, if so - nice job writing it......

(From the first VOX article) - Border Patrol agents aren’t equipped to deal with large groups of families who travel through Mexico by bus and then turn themselves in at the border. This has arguably contributed to the deaths of multiple children in Border Patrol custody in recent months, and spurred Customs and Border Protection to expand medical care.

There are strict limits on how long immigrant children and families can be held in immigration custody; in practice, officials release most families pending an immigration hearing. Asylum seekers can’t be deported without a screening interview, and those who pass (by meeting a deliberately generous standard) are often eligible for release from detention while their cases are resolved.

Some of those migrants, either intentionally or accidentally, do not complete the asylum process or lose their cases, and live in the US as unauthorized immigrants. For many Trump officials, this is the heart of the crisis. Officials have spent the last year working on regulations and pushing Congress to expand family detention and reduce asylum protections.

Trump critics continue to insist that migration isn’t at crisis levels. To them, the more urgent issue is the administration’s treatment of families, children, and asylum seekers. They are urging the administration to allow more asylum seekers to present themselves at ports of entry legally. They are calling attention to the conditions in which migrants are being held in custody.

Asylum seekers cannot be barred from entry. The question is whether they should be treated as vulnerable migrants who the US is obligated to treat with kindness, or as deportable migrants until (if at all) they win legal status.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/us/border-crossing-increase.html

Border at ‘Breaking Point’ as More than 76,000 Unauthorized Migrants Cross in a Month

The number of migrant families crossing the southwest border has once again broken records, with unauthorized entries nearly double what they were a year ago, suggesting that the Trump administration’s aggressive policies have not discouraged new migration to the United States.

More than 76,000 migrants crossed the border without authorization in February, an 11-year high and a strong sign that stepped-up prosecutions, new controls on asylum and harsher detention policies have not reversed what remains a powerful lure for thousands of families fleeing violence and poverty.

“The system is well beyond capacity, and remains at the breaking point,” Kevin K. McAleenan, commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, told reporters in announcing the new data on Tuesday.

The nation’s top border enforcement officer painted a picture of processing centers filled to capacity, border agents struggling to meet medical needs and thousands of exhausted members of migrant families crammed into a detention system that was not built to house them — all while newcomers continue to arrive, sometimes by the busload, at the rate of 2,200 a day.

“This is clearly both a border security and a humanitarian crisis,” Mr. McAleenan said.

President Trump has used the escalating numbers to justify his plan to build an expanded wall along the 1,900-mile border with Mexico. But a wall would do little to slow migration, most immigration analysts say. While the exact numbers are not known, many of those apprehended along the southern border, including the thousands who present themselves at legal ports of entry, surrender voluntarily to Border Patrol agents and eventually submit legal asylum claims.

The main problem is not one of uncontrolled masses scaling the fences, but a humanitarian challenge created as thousands of migrant families surge into remote areas where the administration has so far failed to devote sufficient resources to care for them, as is required under the law.

The latest numbers stung an administration that has over the past two years introduced a rash of aggressive policies intended to deter migrants from journeying to the United States, including separating families, limiting entries at official ports and requiring some asylum seekers to wait in Mexico through the duration of their immigration cases.

More than 50,000 adults are currently in Immigration and Customs Enforcement custody, the highest number ever.

Arrests along the southern border have increased 97 percent since last year, the Border Patrol said, with a 434 percent increase in the El Paso sector, which covers the state of New Mexico and the two westernmost counties of Texas. Families, mainly from Central America, continue to arrive in ever-larger groups in remote parts of the southwest.

At least 70 such groups of 100 or more people have turned themselves in at Border Patrol stations that typically are staffed by only a handful of agents, often hours away from civilization. By comparison, only 13 such groups arrived in the last fiscal year, and two in the year before.

Understanding what is happening on the border is difficult because, while the numbers are currently higher than they have been in several years, they are nowhere near the historic levels of migration seen across the southwest border. Arrests for illegally crossing the border reached up to 1.64 million in 2000, under President Clinton. In the 2018 fiscal year, they reached 396,579. For the first five months of the current fiscal year, 268,044 have been apprehended.

The difference is that the nature of immigration has changed, and the demographics of those arriving now are proving more taxing for border officials to accommodate. Most of those entering the country in earlier years were single men, most of them from Mexico, coming to look for work. If they were arrested, they could quickly be deported.

Now, the majority of border crossers are not single men but families — fathers from Honduras with adolescent boys they are pulling away from gang violence, mothers with toddlers from Guatemala whose farms have been lost to drought. While they may not have a good case to remain in the United States permanently, it is not so easy to speedily deport them if they arrive with children and claim protection under the asylum laws.

Families with children can be held in detention for no longer than 20 days, under a much-debated court ruling, and since there are a limited number of detention centers certified to hold families, the practical effect is that most families are released into the country to await their hearings in immigration court. The courts are so backlogged that it could take months or years for cases to be decided. Some people never show up for court at all.

Finally, detaining families even for the first few days after their arrival in the United States, while they are undergoing initial processing, is also a challenging job.

Often arriving exhausted, dehydrated, and some of them requiring urgent medical care, the families need food, diapers, infant formula and space to play. They can often spend days inside cramped concrete cells that were built to house the previous generation of border crossers — young, single men who would likely be there only a few hours.

As part of the announcements on Tuesday, Mr. McAleenan also said the agency is making sweeping changes to procedures for guaranteeing adequate medical care for migrants — an overhaul brought on by the deaths of two migrant children in the agency’s custody in December. The measures, which include comprehensive health screenings for all migrant children and a new processing center in El Paso that would help provide better shelter and medical care for migrant families, are an attempt to fix years of health care inadequacies that have left many at risk.

The agency will also expand medical contracts to place health care practitioners — largely registered nurses and nurse practitioners — in “high-risk” and high-traffic locations along the border. It will also dedicate more money for translation services to meet increasing demand from Central Americans, many of whom speak indigenous languages and dialects and may not be able to communicate their needs in English or Spanish.

“These solutions are temporary and this situation is not sustainable,” Mr. McAleenan said.

Mr. McAleenan said the authorities believe that the large numbers of families are coming because smugglers have effectively communicated across Central America that adults who travel with children will be allowed to enter and stay in the United States.

Brian Hastings, the agency’s chief of law enforcement operations, said that since April 2018, border agents had detected nearly 2,400 “false families,” including cases in which migrants had falsely claimed to be related when they were not, or untruthfully claimed to be younger than 18.

The throngs of new families are also affecting communities on the American side of the border. In El Paso, a volunteer network that temporarily houses the migrants after they are released from custody has had to expand to 20 facilities, compared with only three during the same period last year. Migrants are now being housed in churches, a converted nursing home and about 125 hotel rooms that are being paid for with donations.

“We had never seen these kinds of numbers,” said Ruben Garcia, the director of the organization, called Annunciation House. He said that during one week in February, immigration authorities had released more than 3,600 migrants to his organization, the highest number in any single week since the group’s founding in 1978.

For the most part, Mr. Garcia said that his staff and volunteer workers had been able to keep up with the surge, often making frantic calls to churches to request access to more space for housing families on short notice. But sometimes their best efforts were upended, he said, including on one day last week, when the authorities dropped off 150 more migrants than planned.

“We just didn’t have the space,” Mr. Garcia said.

So the increasing amount of families crossing the border illegally in remote areas where there is no barrier where smugglers and drug runners are (which takes much more risk to get there, taxes the agency more, and those crossing are in much worse shape medically) and then turning themselves freely into CBP for processing and immediate care is not a real crisis even though the CBP indicates that it is....

swordfish · March 7, 2019