2.0 Multiplier Required to Fix Lower Class Competitive Balance Inequities

[BTF]

3 minutes ago, DT said:

Here is how the PPs are individually impacted by the 2.0 Multiplier.  

 

The only school that looks overmatched in the new classification is Bishop Noll.  

 

89    Indianapolis Roncalli    1081 x 2 = 2162 to Bump to 6A

92    Indianapolis Cathedral    1073x2 = 2146 Bump to 6A

110    Fort Wayne Bishop Dwenger    928  x2 = 1856  Bump to 5A

118    Brebeuf Jesuit    841 x2 = 1682  Bump to 5A

122    South Bend Saint Joseph    806 x2 = 1612 Bump to 5A
 

135    Guerin Catholic    740  x 2 = 1480  Bump to 4A

149    Mishawaka Marian    690  x 2 = 1380 Bump to 4A

152    Indianapolis Bishop Chatard    667x2 = 1334 Bump to 4A

164    Fort Wayne Concordia    610  x2 = 1220  Bump to 4A

175    Evansville Memorial    556 x2 == 1112  Bump to 4A
 

 

196    Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter    502 x 2 = 1004  Bump to 4A

199    Evansville Mater Dei    496  x 2 = 992  Bump to 4A
200    Heritage Christian    496  x 2 = 992  Bump to 4A

202    Hammond Bishop Noll    493 x 2 = 986 Bump to 4A

210    Fort Wayne Bishop Luers    481x2 = 962  Bump to 4A

224    Indianapolis Scecina    439  x 2 = 878   Bump to 4A

237    Andrean    408 x 2 = 816  Bump to 4A

 

 

253    Park Tudor    378* x 2 =756  Bump to 3A

260    Covenant Christian (Indpls.)    352 x2 = 704  Bump to 3A


278    Lafayette Central Catholic    296 x 2 = 592  Bump to 3A

283    Bowman Academy    285 x2 = 570  Bump to 3A


307    Indianapolis Lutheran    224 x2 = 448  Bump to 2A
308    Indianapolis Tindley    219   x 2 = 438  Bump to 2A

316    Traders Point Christian    124 x 2 = 248  Bump to 2A

Have you run the numbers on a 1.5 multiplier DT? Not sure I'm onboard with the 2.0. I'm torn. 

[BTF]

59 minutes ago, tango said:

Give us evidence of "private training" being the secret sauce of P/P success. That is silly in the context of football. Tennis maybe. Coach Ralph is known for a tremendous S&C program. Are you saying all the kids do private training? 

The top twelve state championship leaders are as follows, no particular order.

Privates: Chatard, Cathedral, Luers, Roncalli, LCC,  & Ritter

Public: Carmel, Ben Davis, Sheridan, Warren Central, & Penn. Sheridan won most of their championships in 1a without a strong presence of a private school. The other are all in the top half of enrollment of the largest class, something even the privates can't compete with. 

Maybe it's just coincidence. Maybe private schools and large enrollment schools just work harder than their counterparts. But I doubt it. The evidence is right there in front of you. If you or anyone else on this forum can't see it, then there's nothing I can really do to help you. 

[temptation]

10 minutes ago, BTF said:

The top twelve state championship leaders are as follows, no particular order.

Privates: Chatard, Cathedral, Luers, Roncalli, LCC,  & Ritter

Public: Carmel, Ben Davis, Sheridan, Warren Central, & Penn. Sheridan won most of their championships in 1a without a strong presence of a private school. The other are all in the top half of enrollment of the largest class, something even the privates can't compete with. 

Maybe it's just coincidence. Maybe private schools and large enrollment schools just work harder than their counterparts. But I doubt it. The evidence is right there in front of you. If you or anyone else on this forum can't see it, then there's nothing I can really do to help you. 

$/SES/nuclear households give P/P’s an edge…end of thread.

Edited June 19, 2022 by temptation

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, BTF said:

Have you run the numbers on a 1.5 multiplier DT? Not sure I'm onboard with the 2.0. I'm torn. 

10 years ago the 1.5 made sense.  

Not anymore

2.0, plus SF points is a forever fix.

The gulf has widened, the SF has not slowed down the PP machine, just threw a roadblock in front of it.  

Just now, DT said:

10 years ago the 1.5 made sense.  

Not anymore

2.0, plus SF points is a forever fix.

The gulf has widened, the SF has not slowed down the PP machine, just threw a roadblock in front of it.  

I would go so far as to tell the PPs to accept this model or leave the IHSAA and go run their own season and tournament. 

[LCKfan4life]

On 6/17/2022 at 11:33 AM, DT said:

Its an absolute travesty that the IHSAA is sitting by and doing nothing while Indianapolis private based institutions move to take over the lower class football post season tournaments.

Indy schools own Class 6A, with Ben Davis, Carmel, Center Grove and Warren Central capturing all 10 state titles since this class came into existence.

Cathedral, Zionsville and Decatur Central sit on top of 5A, with Roncalli likely soon to join.

Chatard, Brebeuf, Roncalli and Cathedral have dominated 4A for decades.

Chatard owns 12 3A state titles.

Now the IHSAA is clearing the path for Indy to take over the smallest classes as well.

Covenant Christian and Indianapolis Lutheran are hybrid football factories built to win state championships.

Neither , nor should any other private school,  be allowed to compete in Class 1A.  

Private schools have emerged much stronger and much deeper in the post pandemic period.  The gap between private school football and public school football in Indiana, especially at the lower class levels, is wider now than it has ever been.

Class 1A football was designed for small rural communities that would do everything they could to scrape together 25 to 30 players to fill out a roster , and hopefully survive a full season plus a tournament.

We are now seeing a 1A classification with private school rosters of 50 to 60 players, many recruited locally and on scholarship, playing in multi million dollar facilities with huge coaching staffs, the best equipment money can buy, and massive levels of administrative and community support, levels that very few public schools can match.

Its flat out wrong, it goes against the good intentions of competitive balance initiatives, and it needs to be rectified.

A 2.0 enrollment multiplier will force all PPs up a class, address the competitive imbalance realities that currently exist, and restore Class 1A to its rightful place as the home of rural, outpost football in Indiana.

IHSAA , Commissioner Paul Neidig and Assistant Commissioner for Football Robert Faulkens, its time to act and protect small school football in Indiana.  Its not healthy for the sport to concentrate all the power and success into the Indy Metro Area.  This approach discourages participation in other areas of the state.  Do you really want that as part of your respective legacies? 

GID readers, if you agree, email Neidig and Faulkens and let your thoughts on the subject be known.

pneidig@ihsaa.org

rfaulkens@ihsaa.org

 

 

State baseball tourney just concluded - 3 of the 4 state championships won by private schools...ridiculous. 6 of the 8 teams in the state finals were privates, yet private schools compose a little less than 20% of the TOTAL high schools in Indiana. Privates are playing with a different deck of cards. If you think otherwise, please continue to keep your heads buried. 

[Footballking16]

Can’t wait till Cathedral wins 6A. Ensuing days ought to be fun.

[Footballking16]

16 hours ago, BTF said:

No one is equating Dwenger to Cathedral. We know that Dwenger is built from the ground up...........kudos to them.

What the hell does this even mean?

[temptation]

9 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Can’t wait till Cathedral wins 6A. Ensuing days ought to be fun.

It’ll definitely be a David vs Goliath level accomplishment considering Cathedral’s small enrollment…🙄

Edited June 19, 2022 by temptation

[Footballking16]

4 minutes ago, temptation said:

It’ll definitely be a David vs Goliath level accomplishment considering Cathedral’s small enrollment…🙄

It’ll be entertaining and well deserved irregardless. 

[Whiting89]

It’s a joke I really wish we’d get some leadership from the public schools and force the private schools out.

[Footballking16]

Just now, Whiting89 said:

It’s a joke I really wish we’d get some leadership from the public schools and force the private schools out.

No one is forcing any public school to play in the IHSAA sanctioned tournaments….

[Whiting89]

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

No one is forcing any public school to play in the IHSAA sanctioned tournaments….

Exactly so be a leader quit and start the public school association. I’m a big golf fan and there is a serious shake up going on with liv golf and the pga tour. The status quo isn’t working anymore 

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, Whiting89 said:

Exactly so be a leader quit and start the public school association. I’m a big golf fan and there is a serious shake up going on with liv golf and the pga tour. The status quo isn’t working anymore 

Fire up the cannons!!!

[LaSalle Lions 1976]

Just Curious:

How many Catholic high schools are in each city.  South Bend/Mishawaka currently has 2 with another school mostly Catholic and a new start that will have a high school in 2 years.

[temptation]

41 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

It’ll be entertaining and well deserved irregardless. 

It’ll also prove that Peebles’ and Cathedral simply “work harder” than the rest of the state.

Edited June 19, 2022 by temptation

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

It’ll also prove that Peebles’ and Cathedral simply “work harder” than the rest of the state.

Not many teams going to outwork Cathedral, I’ll put a penny on that.

Its as real and as serous as it gets over there.

[Whiting89]

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

Not many teams going to outwork Cathedral, I’ll put a penny on that.

Its as real and as serous as it gets over there.

Outwork is an antiquated view

its about working smart now and using  science and technology to improve. This includes adequate rest and proper nutrition 

[Robert]

4 hours ago, DT said:

The "private training" comes in the form of CYO football.  Many public school kids are putting on pads and helmet for the first time in high school while their PP counterparts have been playing organized football with specialized coaching with a 5 to 7 year head start.  Even if public school kids play junior high football , they are coached by very young, inexperienced guys who are trying to work their way up to the varsity staff.  

This is the "secret sauce" of PP football.  Young PP players are learning how to pull, pass protect and trap block while their public opponents are still playing video games at home after school.  

There are many public schools who have tried to duplicate/replicate the CYO model in a public environment.

Some of the best are :

Center Grove

Eastbrook

FW Snider

Hobart

South Adams

Adams Central

Michigan City

New Prairie

Brownstown Central

Heritage Hills

 

 

Utter BS.  Do you still live in Indiana?  Take a few trips around and ask.  

[Robert]

3 hours ago, BTF said:

The top twelve state championship leaders are as follows, no particular order.

Privates: Chatard, Cathedral, Luers, Roncalli, LCC,  & Ritter

Public: Carmel, Ben Davis, Sheridan, Warren Central, & Penn. Sheridan won most of their championships in 1a without a strong presence of a private school. The other are all in the top half of enrollment of the largest class, something even the privates can't compete with. 

Maybe it's just coincidence. Maybe private schools and large enrollment schools just work harder than their counterparts. But I doubt it. The evidence is right there in front of you. If you or anyone else on this forum can't see it, then there's nothing I can really do to help you. 

Didn't someone do some power rankings or something?  Good programs are just that.  

3 hours ago, temptation said:

$/SES/nuclear households give P/P’s an edge…end of thread.

Which has nothing to do with the IHSAA.  You've just described suburbia.  

1 hour ago, Whiting89 said:

It’s a joke I really wish we’d get some leadership from the public schools and force the private schools out.

Here we go... 

[BTF]

3 hours ago, temptation said:

$/SES/nuclear households give P/P’s an edge…end of thread.

And some publics to be fair, but most those schools are already 6a.

1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

What the hell does this even mean?

Mebuck took offense to the idea that his Bishop Dwenger Saints is one of those schools that has no boundaries. I've never known Dwenger to actively recruit kids outside of their feeder system. They pretty much do it all from within. So like I say, kudos to them. 

Edited June 19, 2022 by BTF

[BTF]

25 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Not many teams going to outwork Cathedral, I’ll put a penny on that.

Its as real and as serous as it gets over there.

Not many? Would you say Cathedral is in the top five percentile?

[Footballking16]

18 minutes ago, BTF said:

Mebuck took offense to the idea that his Bishop Dwenger Saints is one of those schools that has no boundaries. I've never known Dwenger to actively recruit kids outside of their feeder system. They pretty much do it all from within. So like I say, kudos to them. 

Tell me you don’t know the difference between a parochial school and an independently run private school without telling me you don’t know the difference between a parochial school and an independently run private school.

21 minutes ago, BTF said:

Not many? Would you say Cathedral is in the top five percentile?

Top 1 percentile.

[LaSalle Lions 1976]

31 minutes ago, Robert said:

Utter BS.  Do you still live in Indiana?  Take a few trips around and ask.  

Then explain Fort Wayne's dominance over South Bend/Mishawaka ICCL over the years

[BTF]

10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Tell me you don’t know the difference between a parochial school and an independently run private school without telling me you don’t know the difference between a parochial school and an independently run private school.

Top 1 percentile.

So one of the three hardest working teams in the state. Not sure how you can prove that. Not sure how any program could claim that. Let's just say they are Top 25. Somewhere between 1 and 25, but who really knows. 

[LaSalle Lions 1976]

37 minutes ago, BTF said:

And some publics to be fair, but most those schools are already 6a.

Mebuck took offense to the idea that his Bishop Dwenger Saints is one of those schools that has no boundaries. I've never known Dwenger to actively recruit kids outside of their feeder system. They pretty much do it all from within. So like I say, kudos to them. 

SB St Joe and Marian don't have boundaries.  Kids can go to either school