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Parochials/Private play UP a class. It’s really that simple. I’ve walked the halls of a public school- I’ve walked the halls of private/parochial- They(P/P) just have a different clientele. It’s really that simple. The IHSAA are just cowards when it comes to the subject.

I argued this for weeks with Coach Gallogly in 2012 when the SF was announced (largely because I thought the SF wouldn’t result in what Publics wanted) and was a lone (REALLY LONE) voice. I believe @Titan32 recalls me tilting at that windmill. Now, I’m just not so sure. Let’s be honest, this whole debate is really about a couple of schools who have for the last 25 years shown up at LOS about every couple of years or so: Cathedral and Chatard. Then add in LCC (who’s success has been relatively recent but pretty dominant for about 10-12 years) and Dwenger and you just about have your “problem” taken care of. Roncalli used to be one of those “problems” and it looks like they might be again. A multiplier (or automatic “bump” dings about 30 other P/Ps who actually should not be bumped). The SF would likely have worked better if the IHSAA had done 3 things at the time: (1) Originally utilized a 2 point requirement versus a 4 point requirement to stay “up”. (2) Not be so “cute” about always matching Cathedral, Chatard and Roncalli in the same sectional to get them out of the tournament making it almost impossible to get the needed 2 points to stay up. Both Chatard and Roncalli would both likely still be “up” a class if this had not been done. Also not be “cute” about things like the gerrymandered Sectional 28....which permitted the travesty of Sectional 30 - better called the “Danville/TriWest Expressway to Semistate”. It’s hard to believe grown@ss adults do shite like that. (3) Have a “rolling” 2 year points period for the SF. At this point, I think I like the result of the SF. I’d never have likely seen the greatest Championship game in my lifetime (2015 Dwenger/New Pal) without it. Several publics these last 10 years have been every bit as good as those P/Ps mentioned above - Columbus East, New Pal and Pioneer immediately come to mind. One other side note. I disagree with RebelDad when he says that only Cathedral could play up 2 classes. Chatard would likely have run roughshod in 5A pre-SF...as should most anyone. 4A, pre SF, would easily have been the toughest class pound for pound there was the last 10-12 years (Cathedral, New Pal, Columbus East, Reitz, Dwenger, Roncalli...that’s a Murderer’s Row). 5A is “evolution in action” because most of those great 4A teams listed above now reside there. So despite my earlier dislike of the SF, I’ve come around to it because it is a targeted, thoughtful and surgical approach rather than the slapdash “one size fits all” approach of an automatic bump or multiplier.

It really IS that simple, yes.

Outside of the fan bases involved, I am not sure I can remember less excitement state wide about a November Thanksgiving weekend in Indy. Part of that is due to the fact that most view at least 4/6 games as a formality.

Didn't Sargins also say Cathedral would beat Castle by 50? I've seen a few of these teams play. I'm going to say Sargins is wrong. I realize Cathedral has a very special team this year and overall a heck of a program, but let's not act like they could compete with 6A, year in/ year out. How'd 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 go? Some of those playoff losses weren't close games. Cathedral has a heck of a program and most years are exactly where they belong in 5A. I also don't think we should punish some, because of success of others. As far as an individual tournament, what kind of competitive person would want that? You're too good, so go play on your own? As a public school, you finally win a state championship, would you really feel like you're the "best" team? I would love to hear the debates on here about how this public school could beat that PP school, but only if they played. Edit: To be clear I'm not trying to speak badly of Cathedral. I think they are the standard, that's why I continued to use them as my example.

You know where I stand on this... Though, if they factored in f/r/l, it’d have to be a very small calculation. BD (70 percent) and Warren (63 percent) don’t need to be moving anywhere.

While good in theory, the SF publishes PUBLIC schools who, like it or not, do not have the inherent advantages that P/P's do. Again, it's really that simple. While I agree with your premise in that really the SF rose with the Cathedral's and Chatards and Luers of the world, it has conversely affected classes in PUBLIC schools who really, had no impact on the success of their previous classmates. Your approach I believe is a little to "narrow" in scope- focused solely on the "big dogs" of the football world so-to-speak. There are Mater Dei's of the world...the Memorial's...the Guernin Catholics, etc...that are still playing with a "loaded deck of cards" in comparison to their public school counterparts. It is just the facts of the matter. Playing up a class is the simplest and easiest solution - but as stated previously - the IHSAA will never/doesn't have the guts to pull that trigger.

I will also admit that my buddy Don Quixote and I think that SF isn't all that bad. I agree on the rolling two year adjustment. It's just nuts that the degree to which a team is governed relies on which year of the two year cycle they had success...that is really really dumb.

The guy plays a lot bigger than that.

I have always been intrigued by this and it would actually work at the 6A level because of the lack of sourhwest Indiana teams. At the five levels below, it would never fly. A 5A semi-state between Michigan City and Castle would be asinine. Countless other examples.

You are right- it is a slave-owners' oligarchy.

Just for fun and to keep the conversation rolling based on your statement. 1. Could Covenant Christian beat Luers/WeBo tomorrow? Sagarin says yes. 2. Could Luers beat Chatard/Danville tomorrow? Sagarin says no. 3. We’ve seen Chatard already beat Roncalli. 4. Roncalli was throttled by Cathedral but could they beat Zionsville? Sagarin says yes. 5. We saw that Cathedral/CG came down to one play.

I agree...just bump all PP schools up a class. CC, LCC should never be a A school. At least 2A. Not that these type of schools win championships every single year, but it’s definitely an advantage

Got it. You’re in the state finals, so I think you’re doing OK—best of luck!!!

Would love to chat some WWE and learn more of the background “stuff” if you would be up for it? I’d send you a DM. Thanks Rudy.

I feel like there are some coaches (or ADs, not sure which) in this league who have bought into the "participation trophy" mentality. They've messed up the MVP award more than once - see 2018 - and hand out all-conference based on each coach's list of favorites. Let's give the MVP to players who actually make a difference in game outcomes. And let's award all conference to the best players at each position - 1st and 2nd team like @Mayo77 said. Make the awards mean something! I don't care of you're the best player on your team, if you aren't one of the best at your position you should not be all-conference! (BTW - Sam Smith is a very good player and would definitely be on my 1st team all-conference at LB.)

I thought not having defined districts was one of the advantages only the the p/p schools had...

From Indy Star's Kyle NeddenRiep's Twitter account. So 7,000 fans max. I don't thing that is too bad, all things considered: From state football finals meeting today on attendance (as it stands now): each of 12 schools will receive 3,500 tickets. Tickets that go unsold by schools will go on sale an hour before kickoff for each game of state finals on Fri., Sat. Stadium will be cleared after each game. Should add, this is pending if Marion County stays in orange zone. If red, attendance would be scaled back.

I’d like to personally wish Bob Gaddis well in his retirement. Obviously this was good news(maybe) for the rest of the Conference but it’s hard to not respect what he did in his time up there. One of the greatest coaches in Indiana Football history.

CG is a machine right now, and we have seen this with several state champions over the years. Stiff challenge for Westfield, but I'm almost certain that the shamrocks are chomping at the bit to play this game. They will be prepared and relaxed, what happens ,happens. Westfield is the real deal.