Public School SWEEP?!?

[jets]

Is this the year?!? 

I’m sure it has happened before, I’m just not tech savvy enough to be able look up when the last time it happened was. 

[Tippy]

10 minutes ago, jets said:

Is this the year?!? 

I’m sure it has happened before, I’m just not tech savvy enough to be able look up when the last time it happened was. 

I know it happened in 1974 and 1980. 

[Tippy]

It also happened in 1982.

[Tippy]

It happened in 1974, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982 1987, and 2005

[JQWL]

2024: Public School Sweep

2026: Private Schools will demand to be in their own tounament???

[Tippy]

35 minutes ago, JQWL said:

2024: Public School Sweep

2026: Private Schools will demand to be in their own tounament???

It was the public schools that wanted the p/p's to be in their own tournament after LCC won state 4 years in a row from 2009-2012.  Everything was fine after the public sweep in 2005, and in 2013 there was a class 6A and a crazy success factor.  Danny Anthrop had a lot to do with LCC winning state those 4 years.  Please pray for the Anthrop family!  Jade, Dru, Danny, and Jackson Anthrop's aunt, Mary Anthrop, passed away on November 9th.  Mary Anthrop was a history teacher at LCC for 40 years.

[oldtimeqb]

I’m trying to remember the last time all 12 teams were outside 465. Is Decatur Central the only Marion County school left? 

[Whitehat]

4 hours ago, JQWL said:

2024: Public School Sweep

2026: Private Schools will demand to be in their own tounament???

That still wouldn’t stop the complaining, they’d be talking about how many players in their school district would be choosing to play in the private school tournament.

[jets]

9 hours ago, Tippy said:

It happened in 1974, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982 1987, and 2005

So it hasn’t been done since 2005?? Is this the year?!? Success Factor at its finest

[Tippy]

7 minutes ago, jets said:

So it hasn’t been done since 2005?? Is this the year?!? Success Factor at its finest

No, it hasn't been done since 2005.  This could be the year.  I don't think the success factor has anything to do with it.  There was no success factor in 1987 and 2005.  It's probably about time for it to happen again.  If you don't want p/p's to win, then we should go back to having 3 classes.  The p/p's didn't win state for 5 years in a row in the late 70's and early 80's

[JQWL]

13 hours ago, Tippy said:

No, it hasn't been done since 2005.  This could be the year.  I don't think the success factor has anything to do with it.  There was no success factor in 1987 and 2005.  It's probably about time for it to happen again.  If you don't want p/p's to win, then we should go back to having 3 classes.  The p/p's didn't win state for 5 years in a row in the late 70's and early 80's

How many more p/p's with football programs are there in 2024 than in the late 70's and early 80's?

[PHJIrish]

More p/p deja vu.  It's as regular as rain and snow.

[Yuccaguy]

13 minutes ago, PHJIrish said:

More p/p deja vu.  It's as regular as rain and snow.

Actually MORE regular.  Because the weather forecast is a "hope"..they miss sometimes.

Once the IHSAA FB Finals games are decided, THIS (p/p v. public) is the 1st thing that is "bitched" about. 

Followed closely by the "you haven't played anyone"...we have (insert school here).  Then NWI somehow going silent (as always).  

Wash, Rinse, Repeat!  

[oldtimeqb]

I’m happy for Coach McDonald and the turnaround he has done at Providence. Sadly their success will get overlooked with all the regular debates. 

[WWFan]

3 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

I’m happy for Coach McDonald and the turnaround he has done at Providence. Sadly their success will get overlooked with all the regular debates. 

Watched Providence 3 times this year. It's crazy because everytime i never really thought "team is going to state." QB is really good and they got good size. Defense plays well but has plenty of lapses. But they kept winning. Really thought someone would trip them up. McDonald is a good coach and they are very sound. Think trip down to 1A has played well in thier favor. Not saying right or wrong I don't care for this debate. Only going to help possibly pull more kids for Clark County area as everyone else is really not very good. 

[Tippy]

1 hour ago, JQWL said:

How many more p/p's with football programs are there in 2024 than in the late 70's and early 80's?

I don't have the numbers, but foxbat might know more about this than I do.  There might be more p/p's with football programs today, but that does not mean they have good football programs.  It seems to me that there are about 10 p/p's today with good football programs.  Andrean, Brebeuf,  Cathedral, Chatard, Roncalli, Mater Dei, EV Memorial, Luers, LCC, Lutheran and Providence is good this year.  In the 1970's Cathedral, Chatard, Ritter, Dwenger, SB St. Joseph, Hammond Noll, and Mishawaka Marian had good football programs.  LCC had a good team in 1976, but not so much in the late 70's and early 80's.

[JQWL]

25 minutes ago, WWFan said:

Watched Providence 3 times this year. It's crazy because everytime i never really thought "team is going to state." QB is really good and they got good size. Defense plays well but has plenty of lapses. But they kept winning. Really thought someone would trip them up. McDonald is a good coach and they are very sound. Think trip down to 1A has played well in thier favor. Not saying right or wrong I don't care for this debate. Only going to help possibly pull more kids for Clark County area as everyone else is really not very good. 

Providence has done a good job managing their enrollment. They are in that sweet spot where they can be a big 1A in football and 2A in basketball and baseball and they can be very successful in all 3 with who they are bringing in.

[Bobref]

38 minutes ago, JQWL said:

Providence has done a good job managing their enrollment.

So, they actually turn away paying students if it would cause them to bump up a class in athletics? If so, they’re the only p/p in the history of the world to do so.

[JQWL]

5 minutes ago, Bobref said:

So, they actually turn away paying students if it would cause them to bump up a class in athletics? If so, they’re the only p/p in the history of the world to do so.

I'm going to say their enrollment is where they want it to be. The region Providence is located is growing population wise however, their enrollment has dipped. Since they can actually control their enrollment I'm going to say this is intentional.

[foxbat]

29 minutes ago, JQWL said:

I'm going to say their enrollment is where they want it to be. The region Providence is located is growing population wise however, their enrollment has dipped. Since they can actually control their enrollment I'm going to say this is intentional.

That's an interesting leap.  LCC is in Tippecanoe County.  Between 1974, the year LCC won its first state title after opening its doors in 1956, and 1990, the population of Tippecanoe County grew by roughly 11.6%.  By contrast, the state of Indiana's population growth was roughly 3.5% in the same timeframe.  By 1990, the Bishop was announcing that due to lack of support and enrollment, LCC would be closing it doors at the end of the 1989-1990 academic year.  Only an 11th hour appeal convinced the Bishop to keep the doors open.  LCC is still nowhere close to its upper enrollments in its heyday.  @Tippy, I believe, has posted what the rough enrollment numbers were back before the 1990 pre-closure announcement. 

Similarly, Secina was a 2A school back in 1990 and 1991 when they won back-to-back 2A titles.  At that time, Indy's population was 920,000.  Scecina's enrollment dipped after that and they still remained in 2A for a while, with 1A enrollment, before finally dropping down to 1A around 2007.  In that same timeframe, Indy's population rose to around 1.4 million people.  It wouldn't be until 2012 before Scecina would find itself back in 2A, but because of SF, not enrollment.  It would be another few years or so after that before Scecina's enrollment growth would get it back to 2A.

Those are just two examples that direct refute the idea that growing population in an area and a small program size somehow relate to "controlling the numbers."  I'm pretty sure that most Catholics who attend parish masses have all been captive audiences as the local Catholic schools plead for kids to enroll ... and, at the same time, at least in Indiana, I can pretty much say that I've NEVER heard any of the parochial programs EVER claim that they NEED or WANT to limit their enrollment ... especially not to stay in 1A or move down a class in football.

[JQWL]

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

That's an interesting leap.  LCC is in Tippecanoe County.  Between 1974, the year LCC won its first state title after opening its doors in 1956, and 1990, the population of Tippecanoe County grew by roughly 11.6%.  By contrast, the state of Indiana's population growth was roughly 3.5% in the same timeframe.  By 1990, the Bishop was announcing that due to lack of support and enrollment, LCC would be closing it doors at the end of the 1989-1990 academic year.  Only an 11th hour appeal convinced the Bishop to keep the doors open.  LCC is still nowhere close to its upper enrollments in its heyday.  @Tippy, I believe, has posted what the rough enrollment numbers were back before the 1990 pre-closure announcement. 

Similarly, Secina was a 2A school back in 1990 and 1991 when they won back-to-back 2A titles.  At that time, Indy's population was 920,000.  Scecina's enrollment dipped after that and they still remained in 2A for a while, with 1A enrollment, before finally dropping down to 1A around 2007.  In that same timeframe, Indy's population rose to around 1.4 million people.  It wouldn't be until 2012 before Scecina would find itself back in 2A, but because of SF, not enrollment.  It would be another few years or so after that before Scecina's enrollment growth would get it back to 2A.

Those are just two examples that direct refute the idea that growing population in an area and a small program size somehow relate to "controlling the numbers."  I'm pretty sure that most Catholics who attend parish masses have all been captive audiences as the local Catholic schools plead for kids to enroll ... and, at the same time, at least in Indiana, I can pretty much say that I've NEVER heard any of the parochial programs EVER claim that they NEED or WANT to limit their enrollment ... especially not to stay in 1A or move down a class in football.

I know of a current 2A that was 3A that limited their out of district transfers and eliminated their virtual program to intentionally move down a class. That was told to me by one of their administrators. His words were, we aren't hurting for money so we got rid of our online academy because they didn't contribute to anything. Those kids now attend the other county school. It's worked out well for them. It's not a leap to think Providence is doing the same. They have won 6 state championships the past 5 years and maybe a 7th next week. They only won 5 state championships in their first 50 years.

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, JQWL said:

I'm going to say their enrollment is where they want it to be. The region Providence is located is growing population wise however, their enrollment has dipped. Since they can actually control their enrollment I'm going to say this is intentional.

And I’m going to say that is highly unlikely.

[JQWL]

8 minutes ago, JQWL said:

I know of a current 2A that was 3A that limited their out of district transfers and eliminated their virtual program to intentionally move down a class. That was told to me by one of their administrators. His words were, we aren't hurting for money so we got rid of our online academy because they didn't contribute to anything. Those kids now attend the other county school. It's worked out well for them. It's not a leap to think Providence is doing the same. They have won 6 state championships the past 5 years and maybe a 7th next week. They only won 5 state championships in their first 50 years.

To clarify, the 2A that was 3A is a public school. So if a public does it, I don't think it's a stretch for any other school, public or private to do it.

[JQWL]

19 minutes ago, Bobref said:

And I’m going to say that is highly unlikely.

I do wonder why you doubt this so strongly. You can go on the school's website and read their application process. They don't take everybody, nor should they. 

[Bobref]

3 minutes ago, JQWL said:

I do wonder why you doubt this so strongly. You can go on the school's website and read their application process. They don't take everybody, nor should they. 

Being selective in the admissions process is a far cry from artificially controlling numbers for purposes of athletic competition.