Irishman Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I will give credit to Muda.....I too was skeptical of the intent here. I do believe he was sincere in wishing these teams well. I will also add that as a coach, some of the toughest/best coaching I did was on teams that won very few games. I have never been a part of an team that has gone winless. I applaud the coaches and players who kept showing up and kept working through the adversity. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicvinegar Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 hours ago, itiswhatitis said: I know some people have been talking about Shelbyville and how bad they are, but what about Pike Central? I checked and I believe in the past 25 years they have only won 31 games! They need to get out of the Pocket Conference, go independent and schedule some easier teams and learn how to win. That's a LONG time to deal with losing. Their best record was 4 - 8 in that 25 year span. Wow. I've always been interested in Pike Central. I get that the socioeconomics might be an obstacle, but it's hard for me to accept that causes 25+ straight years of losing. There are certainly other areas of the state that struggle socioeconomically, that haven't struggled as much as PC has. I'm not sure if administration is supportive. What type of funding is supplied to the football program. Surely there has been a good coach or two there in 25 years, but I'm sure it's also difficult to build a staff in a rural small town if admin isn't willing to get assistants in the building. I don't think PC needs to get out of the PAC. Especially being in the smaller division. With the exception of Southridge, the other teams may have decent years here and there, but it's not like any of the other schools in the smaller division are true powerhouses. I would really like to see a coach and Admin get in there that could get that program competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 hours ago, vicvinegar said: I've always been interested in Pike Central. I get that the socioeconomics might be an obstacle, but it's hard for me to accept that causes 25+ straight years of losing. There are certainly other areas of the state that struggle socioeconomically, that haven't struggled as much as PC has. I'm not sure if administration is supportive. What type of funding is supplied to the football program. Surely there has been a good coach or two there in 25 years, but I'm sure it's also difficult to build a staff in a rural small town if admin isn't willing to get assistants in the building. I don't think PC needs to get out of the PAC. Especially being in the smaller division. With the exception of Southridge, the other teams may have decent years here and there, but it's not like any of the other schools in the smaller division are true powerhouses. I would really like to see a coach and Admin get in there that could get that program competitive. North Posey is typically a very strong team. I would consider north Posey and Southridge pretty similar in terms of program strerngth historically but Southridge gets the nod still. PC has had a rough go of it though. And frankly you can’t win if you only have 25 kids for a fully healthy team. I’m hoping the new conference alignment next year will get things going for them. They are also playing a bunch of freshman so by the time they are upperclassmen they should be very experienced. Let’s just hope they can get their numbers up to 50 or so and then can get some smaller schools on their schedule for good competitive games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itiswhatitis Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 hours ago, vicvinegar said: I've always been interested in Pike Central. I get that the socioeconomics might be an obstacle, but it's hard for me to accept that causes 25+ straight years of losing. There are certainly other areas of the state that struggle socioeconomically, that haven't struggled as much as PC has. I'm not sure if administration is supportive. What type of funding is supplied to the football program. Surely there has been a good coach or two there in 25 years, but I'm sure it's also difficult to build a staff in a rural small town if admin isn't willing to get assistants in the building. I don't think PC needs to get out of the PAC. Especially being in the smaller division. With the exception of Southridge, the other teams may have decent years here and there, but it's not like any of the other schools in the smaller division are true powerhouses. I would really like to see a coach and Admin get in there that could get that program competitive. I just don't get how a team with 25 years of futility, gets a pass and Shelbyville doesn't. Socioeconomics aren't great in Greene County either, but the Miners still win year after year. A lot of folks in Greene County have to commute to either Terre Haute, Bloomington, or the Naval Base at Crane. PC can't even win games in the smaller division in the Pocket and they are a 3A school. Maybe it's like you've suggested: the admins don't care about football. It's a shame that a school of that size (3A) is a doormat for even 1A schools. On the outside it looks like they have no pride in their program. I guess if they don't care, then there isn't much use in a discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 On 10/19/2019 at 9:00 PM, vicvinegar said: An opinion that if a program finishes with 9 wins, 7 wins, 7 wins, 1 win, and likely zero wins over the past five years, then you shut down their program. I believe that if such a situation occurs the community supporting that educational institution, along with the duly elected school board, superintendent, and athletic director need to start asking some hard questions. Especially in this era of tight resources. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachDurham Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, Muda69 said: I believe that if such a situation occurs the community supporting that educational institution, along with the duly elected school board, superintendent, and athletic director need to start asking some hard questions. Especially in this era of tight resources. What tight resources? Athletics are paid out of a different fund than any other schools operating expenses. We fund raise to pay for our reconditioning, equipment, uniforms. Our gates cover our other operating expenses. We work concessions all fall and spring for the athletic department. We help the Boosters with any fund raisers we have. I know we are only 1 school. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, itiswhatitis said: I just don't get how a team with 25 years of futility, gets a pass and Shelbyville doesn't. Socioeconomics aren't great in Greene County either, but the Miners still win year after year. A lot of folks in Greene County have to commute to either Terre Haute, Bloomington, or the Naval Base at Crane. PC can't even win games in the smaller division in the Pocket and they are a 3A school. Maybe it's like you've suggested: the admins don't care about football. It's a shame that a school of that size (3A) is a doormat for even 1A schools. On the outside it looks like they have no pride in their program. I guess if they don't care, then there isn't much use in a discussion. Linton has a culture, PC does not. This is one of the biggest obstacles facing a coach coming into a bad situation, first order of business is changing the culture. Greene County population dwarfs Pike County, 32k+ to 12K+. Greene and Pike Counties, share similar median incomes and percentage of people living in poverty as well as demographics. Perhaps the location of the school wasn't the best idea, away from Petersburg, kind of in the middle of nowhere. Petersburg is the only real city in the county, and only real population center. Linton just added a fairly nice locker facility near the entrance to their field, I'm not sure anything has been added to PC since it was built. Edited October 21, 2019 by Impartial_Observer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Has Pike considered contracting based on all the negative long term issues impacting its program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, DT said: Has Pike considered contracting based on all the negative long term issues impacting its program? No clue, why don't you quit your conjecture and get it right from the horse's mouth? Dustin Powell AD 812-354-8478 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: No clue, why don't you quit your conjecture and get it right from the horse's mouth? Dustin Powell AD 812-354-8478 Why such invective? Im just asking a question? Based on everything mentioned in this thread, contraction sounds like a reasonable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Invective? I just answered the question. Why would I pontificate on something I have no clue about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 http://www.pacsports.us/history/Champions19.pdf here is a document showing all the PAC champions in boys and girls sports over the course of the PACs history. Outside of some 70s 80s 90s once in a decade classes and the swimming team, the school as a whole has struggled. It’s not just football. it certainly doesn’t help that Heritage Hills has dominated across the board for years and Southridge too. More recently Gibson Southern has become a powerhouse....but Gibson southerns strength is more so in Girls sports than boys. Obviously Gibson Southern has some great boys programs like wrestling and football, but year in and year out the girls sports do well across the board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itiswhatitis Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, DumfriesYMCA said: http://www.pacsports.us/history/Champions19.pdf here is a document showing all the PAC champions in boys and girls sports over the course of the PACs history. Outside of some 70s 80s 90s once in a decade classes and the swimming team, the school as a whole has struggled. It’s not just football. it certainly doesn’t help that Heritage Hills has dominated across the board for years and Southridge too. More recently Gibson Southern has become a powerhouse....but Gibson southerns strength is more so in Girls sports than boys. Obviously Gibson Southern has some great boys programs like wrestling and football, but year in and year out the girls sports do well across the board Since this is a football site, I was only talking about their football futility. Their closest conference game this year was with Tell City (48 - 14). Their 2 non conference games were against 1A Tecumseh (39 - 3) and 3A Brown County (41 - 19). Against the three 3A schools (Gibson Southern, Soutridge, and Heritage Hills) in their conference they were massacred 69 - 6, 74 - 0, and 70 - 3. Against the four 2A schools in their conference they didn't fare too much better and lost 48 - 14, 69 - 12, 61 - 7, and 42 - 0. That was just this year, but you can check on Harrell's and find that is pretty much typical of most years going back to 1994. I'm wondering what their attendance is like at their games? Maybe a few parents and that's it? That's just a guess but I don't see much support for a program like that. It's just hard for me to wrap my mind around a program that has been bad for so long and still dresses a team every week. I get that teams have down years, but this one has been down for decades. I still say they don't belong in the PAC (in football at least). I applaud the young men still suiting up and playing, but it shouldn't have to be that way year after year. Maybe a young coach with a lot of fire and motivation? Don't misunderstand me here. I am not posting this to belittle a program. I would love to see them be able to see them have some winning seasons. I just have a hard time understanding programs who seem to accept their fate instead of things getting changed/improved. Good grief! 25 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, CoachDurham said: What tight resources? Athletics are paid out of a different fund than any other schools operating expenses. So this "different fund" has unlimited resources/$ contained within it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So this "different fund" has unlimited resources/$ contained within it? That's why you show up on Friday night and pony up your five bucks to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachDurham Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 18 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So this "different fund" has unlimited resources/$ contained within it? Athletic Department Fund, which I covered, is self sufficient and fund raised and worked events by the players and staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: That's why you show up on Friday night and pony up your five bucks to watch. So it is the job of the football program to prop up the likes of swimming, cross country, wrestling, tennis, softball, baseball, track, etc.? Wonder how that is working out for Pike Central? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So it is the job of the football program to prop up the likes of swimming, cross country, wrestling, tennis, softball, baseball, track, etc.? Wonder how that is working out for Pike Central? 1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said: No clue, why don't you quit your conjecture and get it right from the horse's mouth? Dustin Powell AD 812-354-8478 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanka Jahari Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So it is the job of the football program to prop up the likes of swimming, cross country, wrestling, tennis, softball, baseball, track, etc.? Wonder how that is working out for Pike Central? It's just as affective as democratic socialism. You should be a big fan of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Impartial_Observer said: *yawn* Tell me IO, how it working out for the Seymour government high school? If the Owls football program went away would all other extracurricular sports soon whither and die to to lack of funding resources? 1 minute ago, Tanka Jahari said: It's just as affective as democratic socialism. You should be a big fan of that. Exactly. And now, not a fan. Shouldn't extracurricular activities be compelled to sink or swim based on their own merits, and that includes football? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanka Jahari Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Muda69 said: *yawn* Tell me IO, how it working out for the Seymour government high school? If the Owls football program went away would all other extracurricular sports soon whither and die to to lack of funding resources? Exactly. And now, not a fan. Shouldn't extracurricular activities be compelled to sink or swim based on their own merits, and that includes football? You're a Bernie Sanders supporter. How could you not support this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Tanka Jahari said: You're a Bernie Sanders supporter. No, I'm not. How you have come to that conclusion is puzzling. Care to explain? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 So now Seymour is on the contraction list? We've been down this road before Muda. Athletic budgets by state law have to be self supporting. They can not operate in the red. Yes, capital projects money goes into facilities, but operating the sports has to be self supporting. Football is an expensive sport, and in most cases is a money maker at schools. What do you think funds swimming, cross country, wrestling, baseball, track, etc. not only at the HS level but also NCAA? Football and Basketball are revenue generating sports, and these other sports are not. Once again as I have already pointed out, you and I are not going to see eye to eye on public schools and apparently public schools sports. It's education based sports, we continue to rehash the same material, what do you want from me? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanka Jahari Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Muda69 said: No, I'm not. How you have come to that conclusion is puzzling. Care to explain? It works like this. Let's say, for example, a school's football program makes enough income to purchase a Hi-Pod X31 endzone camera. Then the soccer coach asks if he can borrow it to film his game on Tuesday night. Being a considerate person, the football coach allows the soccer program to use the Hi-Pod X31 endzone camera so long as they take good care of it. Everyone benefits from the football team's revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Tanka Jahari said: It works like this. Let's say, for example, a school's football program makes enough income to purchase a Hi-Pod X31 endzone camera. Then the soccer coach asks if he can borrow it to film his game on Tuesday night. Being a considerate person, the football coach allows the soccer program to use the Hi-Pod X31 endzone camera so long as they take good care of it. Everyone benefits from the football team's revenue. And what does that have to do with your conclusion that I support Mr. Sanders? And what happens if the soccer program breaks the Hi-Pod X31 endzone camera? Wouldn't requiring some sort of good faith security deposit on the part of the soccer program be a good idea? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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