IHSAA to vote on NIL

[23andCounting]

I think some fans gravitate toward the high school game to get away from all the monetary b***s***. Could this hurt attendance at all? Attendance has been dropping for years. What's the IHSAA doing to get the fans back on a Friday night? I mean, if high school players are getting paid too, I might as well be watch a Big Ten game from the comfort of my recliner on a Friday night. Haven't decided that yet, but it's heading in that direction. 

[Bash Riprock]

14 hours ago, Irishman said:

NIL approved

 

Serious question...does this open the door for private schools to give full scholarships for attendance?  All private schools and not just faith based, so we can avoid going down that path please......

[RingLeader]

Where does funding for this come from?

[Muda69]

2 hours ago, Daniel_Bragg said:

It would be interesting to see how many players would come from Rossville.  With them never having high school football, what youth programs do they have available?

Youth football programs?  Currently zero, AFAIK.  There was a push about a decade ago that got a small youth tackle football program going, with the eventual goal of a JV & Varsity program at RHS.  But once the school board came out and said tackle football will never be sanctioned at RHS the youth program quickly fell apart.

 

[US31]

16 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Serious question...does this open the door for private schools to give full scholarships for attendance?  All private schools and not just faith based, so we can avoid going down that path please......

My understanding of the "PBA" rule as passed is the school can have no involvement at all. 

[Coach Nowlin]

any athlete that takes this opportunity is doing so like this: 

 

Eric Nowlin is a local athlete and he is going to go to the local Card Shop and sit out there and do a meet and greet for the community and the Card shop is going to pay Eric Nowlin $150 appearance fee.    Eric Nowlin shows up and must NOT be wearing any Rensselaer High School apparel.   Because the Card Shop is paying for ERIC NOWLIN, the NIL human, not ERIC NOWLIN the local -5 star athlete (yes that is a negative before the 5) 

 

16 minutes ago, RingLeader said:

Where does funding for this come from?

who ever want to pay.  

Jack Kiser in HS could of appeared at the BOB o LINK on a Saturday in the Fall, meet and greet paid for by BOB o LINK by either cash or free Smash burgers and ice cream for the football season.   HOWEVER, Jack Kiser could NOT appear in at Pioneer Panther swag 

[Muda69]

15 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

any athlete that takes this opportunity is doing so like this: 

 

Eric Nowlin is a local athlete and he is going to go to the local Card Shop and sit out there and do a meet and greet for the community and the Card shop is going to pay Eric Nowlin $150 appearance fee.    Eric Nowlin shows up and must NOT be wearing any Rensselaer High School apparel.   Because the Card Shop is paying for ERIC NOWLIN, the NIL human, not ERIC NOWLIN the local -5 star athlete (yes that is a negative before the 5) 

 

who ever want to pay.  

Jack Kiser in HS could of appeared at the BOB o LINK on a Saturday in the Fall, meet and greet paid for by BOB o LINK by either cash or free Smash burgers and ice cream for the football season.   HOWEVER, Jack Kiser could NOT appear in at Pioneer Panther swag 

Could they autograph Rensselaer or Pioneer swag? And charge for the act?

 

 

[Coach Nowlin]

4 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Could they autograph Rensselaer or Pioneer swag? And charge for the act?

 

 

I believe so:  My understanding is that you can profit under your NAME in LIKENESS, as long as it's YOUR NAME, not the NAME of the SCHOOL you attend.    You can autograph anything at that point if that is what the business / etc has hired you to do so.  

 

[oldtimeqb]

17 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

any athlete that takes this opportunity is doing so like this: 

 

Eric Nowlin is a local athlete and he is going to go to the local Card Shop and sit out there and do a meet and greet for the community and the Card shop is going to pay Eric Nowlin $150 appearance fee.    Eric Nowlin shows up and must NOT be wearing any Rensselaer High School apparel.   Because the Card Shop is paying for ERIC NOWLIN, the NIL human, not ERIC NOWLIN the local -5 star athlete (yes that is a negative before the 5) 

 

who ever want to pay.  

Jack Kiser in HS could of appeared at the BOB o LINK on a Saturday in the Fall, meet and greet paid for by BOB o LINK by either cash or free Smash burgers and ice cream for the football season.   HOWEVER, Jack Kiser could NOT appear in at Pioneer Panther swag 

I haven't read the rule, but I am curious the application/interpretation.

Hypothetical: The Busy Bee (RIP) runs a photo on their Facebook page showing Eric Nowlin eating ice cream.  Which caption is ok and which is not ok?

1. Eric Nowlin enjoys ice cream from the Busy Bee.

2. Our local (negative star LOL) athlete enjoys the Busy Bee. 

3. Football athletes (assuming they call Eric Nowlin an athlete) like our ice cream. 

4. Bomber players like the Busy Bee. 

Personally I am ok with 1 and 2.  3 I'm probably ok with.  4 I think should NOT be ok.  Assuming there is pay involved. If unpaid, I'm perfectly fine with all 4. 

In game photos, or full uniform photos/appearances should be a no-no. If you are wearing a "Bombers 1000 lb. club" shirt in #1 I would be ok with it.  #2 would depend on how prominent the shirt was.  A football t-shirt I would say no.  #3 & #4 no. 

Just my .02.   

[First_Backer_Inside]

12 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

I haven't read the rule, but I am curious the application/interpretation.

Hypothetical: The Busy Bee (RIP) runs a photo on their Facebook page showing Eric Nowlin eating ice cream.  Which caption is ok and which is not ok?

1. Eric Nowlin enjoys ice cream from the Busy Bee.

2. Our local (negative star LOL) athlete enjoys the Busy Bee. 

3. Football athletes (assuming they call Eric Nowlin an athlete) like our ice cream. 

4. Bomber players like the Busy Bee. 

Personally I am ok with 1 and 2.  3 I'm probably ok with.  4 I think should NOT be ok.  Assuming there is pay involved. If unpaid, I'm perfectly fine with all 4. 

In game photos, or full uniform photos/appearances should be a no-no. If you are wearing a "Bombers 1000 lb. club" shirt in #1 I would be ok with it.  #2 would depend on how prominent the shirt was.  A football t-shirt I would say no.  #3 & #4 no. 

Just my .02.   

Thank you for the example. Not bashing on anything from your post I appreciate it.

But...can we see the massive amount of grey area this is going to cause. Just from the example, how do we know what is right and what is wrong? How many schools are going to start a "non-school affiliated booster club" that can just pay athletes out of the donated fund to go their school? I just don't see this going over very well, but what do I know? I'm just a dumb math teacher and football coach. 

[Cheez]

1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I believe so:  My understanding is that you can profit under your NAME in LIKENESS, as long as it's YOUR NAME, not the NAME of the SCHOOL you attend.    You can autograph anything at that point if that is what the business / etc has hired you to do so.  

 

I might be wrong, but I think that the autographing of anything that has your school name/logo on it would likely be violating the "spirit of the rule," if not the rule itself. Maybe a photo of yourself in your uniform, but a shirt or hoodie with your school's name? Those are the kinds of things that will have to be clarified. For example, you can't go to do a commercial for a local eating establishment while wearing your team hoodie with your school name or logo on it. However, could you do that same commercial while wearing a blank hoodie that is clearly displaying your school colors? ChatGPT says "I would advise against it."

[PDB26]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Serious question...does this open the door for private schools to give full scholarships for attendance?  All private schools and not just faith based, so we can avoid going down that path please......

For a few reasons, I think not.

 

27 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

Thank you for the example. Not bashing on anything from your post I appreciate it.

But...can we see the massive amount of grey area this is going to cause. Just from the example, how do we know what is right and what is wrong? How many schools are going to start a "non-school affiliated booster club" that can just pay athletes out of the donated fund to go their school? I just don't see this going over very well, but what do I know? I'm just a dumb math teacher and football coach. 

The rule covers non-affiliated groups acting for the benefit of a school. It’s an enforcement issue at that point, but the rule is there.

[PDB26]

7 minutes ago, Cheez said:

I might be wrong, but I think that the autographing of anything that has your school name/logo on it would likely be violating the "spirit of the rule," if not the rule itself. Maybe a photo of yourself in your uniform, but a shirt or hoodie with your school's name? Those are the kinds of things that will have to be clarified. For example, you can't go to do a commercial for a local eating establishment while wearing your team hoodie with your school name or logo on it. However, could you do that same commercial while wearing a blank hoodie that is clearly displaying your school colors? ChatGPT says "I would advise against it."

My guess is autographs fly so long as the athlete, or their handlers, don’t acquire, sign, and then sell memorabilia related to the school. Wearing school colors in a commercial or promotion seems almost certainly violates the rule.

[Coach Nowlin]

Just like many of the IHSAA by Laws per sport.....   enforcement happens within 

Does Warren Central get the slap on the wrist over a decade ago if the Indy Chopper doesn't catch them practicing in gear when they were not supposed?   I'd say probably not. 

I have sat in decade plus meetings.   The story goes....    You see it, then it's up to the school itself, or another coach who knows about to turn them in.   This will be no different other than the proof will be far more easier to obtain.... you know bc of the ole point is to create media attention of said NIL athlete 

 

[Coach Nowlin]

1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

 

Hypothetical: The Busy Bee (RIP) runs a photo on their Facebook page showing Eric Nowlin eating ice cream.  Which caption is ok and which is not ok?

 

HOWEVER,  Brick Street Ice Cream is outstanding 

[tango]

As written, I really don't see this being that big of an issue. I think it was the IHSAA getting ahead of a lawsuit like the one filed next door in Ahia (as Coach Cig likes to say) by a high profile recruit. Not being able to use school colors, logo or mascot is the key to limiting the opportunities IMO.

[US31]

Hypothetical:   

• Coach Smith works at ProTripperHoops Athletic Center (the PTHAC...pronounced THAK!)
• Coach Smith is an extremely succesfull travel sportsball coach.  His teams compete nationally. 
• Coach Smith's son, Coach Jr (CJ for short), attends CenterBurg suburban metro high school (located in the same town as PTHAC)...where CJ is a highly recurited sportsball star.  CJ's freshman year, they lose in the semistate to MetroHigh.
• Coach Smith decides to pay another highly recruited sportsball star, Lebron Jordan Manning (LJ for short), to come coach a weekly youth sportsball class at the PTHAC. 
• However, LJ Manning currently lives 2 hours away in Hicksville, but his family decides to move to CenterBurg and they enroll him there.  
• CJ  & LJ go on two win 3 consecutive sportsball state titles.

 

Is this OK by the new rules?

Edited May 5 by US31

[Coach Nowlin]

I do not know enough about Past Link cases and how they have been ruled but in that Scenario, seems like a past link connection.  

[Bash Riprock]

6 hours ago, US31 said:

My understanding of the "PBA" rule as passed is the school can have no involvement at all. 

thank you.....is there potential for things now to occur "under the table"?  

[Bash Riprock]

6 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

I believe so:  My understanding is that you can profit under your NAME in LIKENESS, as long as it's YOUR NAME, not the NAME of the SCHOOL you attend.    You can autograph anything at that point if that is what the business / etc has hired you to do so.  

 

Wasn't that the way it was supposed to be originally with college sports??  Name, Image, Likeness?

[Coach Nowlin]

yes, at least that is what the Suits at NCAA thought would happen.... Johnny get the money to wave at the car wash......    THEN AGENTS swooped in........  Good Night Sally 

[Frozen Tundra]

3 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

yes, at least that is what the Suits at NCAA thought would happen.... Johnny get the money to wave at the car wash......    THEN AGENTS swooped in........  Good Night Sally 

Prior to COVID, that’s what I told Jay Bilas would happen but he wanted to argue with me on Twitter and tell me I didn’t know what I was talking about. Despite having a law degree from Duke, the guy isn’t as smart as he thinks he is.

[PDB26]

41 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

Wasn't that the way it was supposed to be originally with college sports??  Name, Image, Likeness?

The key distinction, in my mind, is that the NCAA and its members were found to be engaging in interstate commerce and therefore the membership is subject to the Sherman Act. Because of the recruiting element, the members were essentially price fixing their labor costs by agreeing to rules like no full cost of attendance scholarships. NIL has been rolled into that general framework. Would Indiana courts want to import that same framework into high school athletics, I doubt it. Since recruiting is not a part of the game, there can be no price fixing argument.

[First_Backer_Inside]

14 hours ago, Bash Riprock said:

thank you.....is there potential for things now to occur "under the table"?  

Yes...if they aren't already. I think I mentioned previously, all it takes is a wealthy alumni to open up an account with a couple thousand dollars in it. Figure out the best players at the school, figure out good players in the area, and offer money for them to come play at the alumni's high school. Technically if the athlete isn't wearing school attire everything should be within the rules it sounds like. The school isn't involved at all.

I wanna know which school is going to have the first local dealership handing out cars and trucks to players to drive for a year. That athlete just better not wear school attire while driving the vehicle, they will probably have to park a block away from the school and walk the rest of the way so they aren't on campus property with the vehicle to avoid any trouble.

[Bash Riprock]

14 hours ago, PDB26 said:

The key distinction, in my mind, is that the NCAA and its members were found to be engaging in interstate commerce and therefore the membership is subject to the Sherman Act. Because of the recruiting element, the members were essentially price fixing their labor costs by agreeing to rules like no full cost of attendance scholarships. NIL has been rolled into that general framework. Would Indiana courts want to import that same framework into high school athletics, I doubt it. Since recruiting is not a part of the game, there can be no price fixing argument.

Great comments and I appreciate your thoughts/education.

My fear, and perhaps unfounded, is recruiting becomes an "unofficial" part of the game....thus the "under the table" question I asked earlier.  Will the wealthier school districts with influential individuals and businesses now have an opening?  I understand it wouldn't be legal, but can the IHSAA police and enforce?  

I do understand this could occur now without NIL, but I can't help from wondering if this could create unintended consequences.  

Sorry to ramble and thanks for the conversation....perhaps I am just an old guy afraid of change!!!