Justasportsfan Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 5a was down..5a was weak this year..so many posts throwing shade? Whats the cause? 4a south had some great teams at the top..so did 5a..what makes an entire class "weak" compared to their counterparts? Everyone thinking valpo and Whiteland lose 2 out of 3 against top 3 4a programs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 (edited) i think 3 teams in the 4a south would beat whiteland and valpo 10 times out of 10, and one team in the 4a south would beat them at least 6 times out of 10. I would also pick chatard to win 5a I would not pick new prairie over them, so theres that I guess? Edited December 7, 2022 by Rodney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasportsfan Posted December 7, 2022 Author Share Posted December 7, 2022 10 out of 10?? Blasphemy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Fan Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 I personally feel that there were many 4A teams that could’ve won 5A. I think to most people, 5A is just a lower tier of 6A. An “extra” 32 teams. I know it is not intended that way nor do I feel it will be like that every year. If I had a say, the most fair way to divide this up is have 6A at 32. And class 1A at 32. Then go through and place 64 (or 62,63) in classes 2,3,4,5A. I feel this would create much more of an equal setting and allows that very small schools to have their class just like the largest 32. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 I think New Pal and Roncalli could make a pretty good case that they may have won 5A. Chatard not so much. I'm not sure the Trojans could have finished better than 4th in the SAC let alone win all of 5A. That won't settle well with those in Indy, I'm just telling it like I see it. The rest of the state never even got a chance to see North Side, as the Redskins ran into 5A's #1 ranked team in the sectionals. They actually had the Panthers down 9 late in the third. If I'm a North Side fan, I'm making a case for them being 5A's second best team. I'm also making a case that they could beat any team in 5A on any given night. The state didn't get to see Snider either, whom I still believe was 5A's best team this year. Valpo is being judged by by their three losses and not so much how good they were when they got #9 back. That kid is a beast and truly made a difference in Valpo's run to the state title. Merrillville could also make a claim that they could beat anyone in 5A on any given night. That being said, let's matchup 4A's top 5 with Snider, Valpo, Whiteland, North Side, and Merrillville. This should keep us busy for the next few days during this off season. I know posters are getting bored. Justasportsfan..........to answer your question, 5A is considered weak since Cathedral and New Pal aren't involved. No one made any claims of it being weak when Snider, Valpo, and Merrillville were in 6A and Cathedral and New Pal were winning championships. It's an Indy thing. Since their representation in that class was slim, that's why they foolishly think it's weak. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Justasportsfan said: 10 out of 10?? Blasphemy I dont think any of the games would be particularly close either 5a football was extremely average this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 9 minutes ago, BTF said: I think New Pal and Roncalli could make a pretty good case that they may have won 5A. Chatard not so much. I'm not sure the Trojans could have finished better than 4th in the SAC let alone win all of 5A. That won't settle well with those in Indy, I'm just telling it like I see it. The rest of the state never even got a chance to see North Side, as the Redskins ran into 5A's #1 ranked team in the sectionals. They actually had the Panthers down 9 late in the third. If I'm a North Side fan, I'm making a case for them being 5A's second best team. I'm also making a case that they could beat any team in 5A on any given night. The state didn't get to see Snider either, whom I still believe was 5A's best team this year. Valpo is being judged by by their three losses and not so much how good they were when they got #9 back. That kid is a beast and truly made a difference in Valpo's run to the state title. Merrillville could also make a claim that they could beat anyone in 5A on any given night. That being said, let's matchup 4A's top 5 with Snider, Valpo, Whiteland, North Side, and Merrillville. This should keep us busy for the next few days during this off season. I know posters are getting bored. Justasportsfan..........to answer your question, 5A is considered weak since Cathedral and New Pal aren't involved. No one made any claims of it being weak when Snider, Valpo, and Merrillville were in 6A and Cathedral and New Pal were winning championships. It's an Indy thing. Since their representation in that class was slim, that's why they foolishly think it's weak. Snider loss to valpo was eye opening They should have ran that game over before halftime At the Same time I tried multiple times to watch castle vs whiteland but I just couldn't. It was bad football and to say otherwise is laughable. 5a football was atrocious this year from the top down, new pal ec and roncalli could have mercy ruled the 5a state game, memorial could have won it. But I stated all this months ago when I mentioned 2015 snider would have absolutely trounced this years team It's not indy bias to look at 5a football this year and say it was objectively bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 5A was always going to be the watered down class when they formed 6A. Since the Success Factor was implemented, 5A has been dominated by 4A enrollment schools taking their turns at title runs. Another poster had it right, make 6A the top 32 enrollment schools and 1A the smallest 32 enrollment schools and 5A would look like a much better product top to bottom. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US31 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 43 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: ....make 6A the top 32 enrollment schools and 1A the smallest 32 enrollment schools and 5A would look like a much better product top to bottom. This....over and over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justasportsfan Posted December 7, 2022 Author Share Posted December 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Rodney said: But I stated all this months ago when I mentioned 2015 snider would have absolutely trounced this years team That team would have trounced a ton teams.. Valpo had the size to match up with top tier 4a n with their rb1 back they would be a tough out..Snider had the speed just not the size needed in November football being played outdoors.. I've seen bigger teams yet don't think they lose 10 out of 10.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 2 hours ago, Rodney said: 5a football was atrocious this year from the top down Outside of five football teams, 5a just wasn't very good this year...............I'm sure that's what you meant to say. Saying that Snider, Valpo, Whiteland, North Side, and Merrillville are atrocious football teams doesn't hold any water. Someone please bring 4A's top five teams to the table for a comparison. I'll ask again. When New Pal and Cathedral were winning 5A while Snider, Valpo, and Merrillville were playing in 6A, how come there was no talk of 5A being watered down? It's somehow watered down now without the presence of two major players. But three major players were added. Again, why did the talk of 5A being watered down only begin this year? I'll tell you why. No one wants to admit that a class is watered down when the champion is from Indianapolis. When the best teams are from the north, it has to be watered down to fit the narrative that football is awful outside of Indy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Scott Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 Funny how so much shade being thrown at 5a this year when the 5a finals was the best game of the entire weekend. it was not only the most competitive game of the weekend, but it was filled with great plays and execution by both teams. So how did such an atrocious division produce such a competitive, exciting, and well played game? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 the only two teams worth a damn in 5a were Snider and North side Snider played terribly against valpo and deserved the loss valpo whiteland castle and Merriville (dw we got this next year with our 75 returning d1 players) were not good football teams especially if you compare them to 5a teams in the last decade yet one of them was crowned champion, snider probably should have taken that one, but as stated they played bad football when the time came I was all in on Carroll winning 6a and picked them against the #1 team from the (MOST DOMINANT CONFERENCE TO HARDLY WIN ANYTHING) in semi state. I also am a Dwenger fan I just like good football and 5a did not play it this year I'll take roncalli EC New Pal Memorial and Brebeuf you can take your top 5 from 5a. match them up however you want 10 times out of 10 4a wins at least 3/5 of those games 5 times out of 10 4a wins at least 4/5 of those games 4 times out of 10 4a wins all 5 of those games to elaborate I think New Pal Roncalli and EC would each beat whiteland and valpo in a double header if they needed to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 and now i've a a question for you @BTF Which team from 5a this year beats 2014 Cathedral 2015 Snider, New pal 2016 Columbus east, westfield 2017 Columbus east 2018 New pal 2019 New pal, Michigan city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 wont let me edit, but 2019 was suppose to say valpo not MC, and 2018 was suppose to have MC added to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, BTF said: I'll ask again. When New Pal and Cathedral were winning 5A while Snider, Valpo, and Merrillville were playing in 6A, how come there was no talk of 5A being watered down? It's somehow watered down now without the presence of two major players. But three major players were added. Again, why did the talk of 5A being watered down only begin this year? I'll tell you why. No one wants to admit that a class is watered down when the champion is from Indianapolis. When the best teams are from the north, it has to be watered down to fit the narrative that football is awful outside of Indy LOL...4A enrollment schools running away with state titles (New Pal and Cathedral) is the exact reason WHY 5A is watered down. Before 6A was formed, there were 3-4 schools who dominated the large class. When those schools moved to 6A there was hardly any separation between the top schools in 4A and the top schools in 5A. 7/10 5A title winners since 6A was formed have been schools with 4A enrollment. They didn't miss a beat in 5A after being bumped up. It's not meant to be a dig at the current 5A schools, it's just the reality of the situation. If you made 1A the smallest 32 schools and bumped up the top 32 schools in 4A to make 5A a 64 team class, the outlook on 5A would be completely different than it is today. Edited December 7, 2022 by Footballking16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 28 minutes ago, Rodney said: and now i've a a question for you @BTF Which team from 5a this year beats 2014 Cathedral 2015 Snider, New pal 2016 Columbus east, westfield 2017 Columbus east 2018 New pal 2019 New pal, Michigan city I think 2016 is the only year that is debatable. I really don't see Westfield or Columbus East as being any better than 5a's Top 5 this year. I'll concede to the other years ,but that doesn't necessarily make 5a "atrocious" in 2022. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 4 minutes ago, BTF said: I think 2016 is the only year that is debatable. I really don't see Westfield or Columbus East as being any better than 5a's Top 5 this year. I'll concede to the other years ,but that doesn't necessarily make 5a "atrocious" in 2022. had to include it, no point in skipping years to prove a point, but yes I think 5a was pretty down that year as well if the top 5 teams can't compete with the top teams of the past decade, then it has to be fair to say that 5a is down and I think most of the potential matchups there would be extremely one sided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 7 hours ago, Indiana Fan said: I personally feel that there were many 4A teams that could’ve won 5A. I think to most people, 5A is just a lower tier of 6A. An “extra” 32 teams. I know it is not intended that way nor do I feel it will be like that every year. If I had a say, the most fair way to divide this up is have 6A at 32. And class 1A at 32. Then go through and place 64 (or 62,63) in classes 2,3,4,5A. I feel this would create much more of an equal setting and allows that very small schools to have their class just like the largest 32. That makes too much sense for the powers that be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Footballking16 said: LOL...4A enrollment schools running away with state titles (New Pal and Cathedral) is the exact reason WHY 5A is watered down. You keep playing the small school card with Cathedral. Do we have to keep doing this? Kudos to them for winning where the IHSAA puts them, they are a great program for sure. But c'mon, you and I both know they are not a 4a program. Based on their advantages, I'd call them a 6a program, but I'd settle for 5a. New Pal on the other hand? That's a true smaller school that competes with the big boys. And they can only do that by playing their best athletes on both sides of the ball. But that's what they do and kudos to them for having the endurance to compete that way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 Just now, BTF said: You keep playing the small school card with Cathedral. Do we have to keep doing this? Kudos to them for winning where the IHSAA puts them, they are a great program for sure. But c'mon, you and I both know they are not a 4a program. Based on their advantages, I'd call them a 6a program, but I'd settle for 5a. New Pal on the other hand? That's a true smaller school that competes with the big boys. And they can only do that by playing their best athletes on both sides of the ball. But that's what they do and kudos to them for having the endurance to compete that way. Yo... They're a 4A enrollment school. You can use whatever rationale you need to tell yourself otherwise but they would still be playing in 4A if the SF didn't exist. 5A has been dominated by 4A enrollment schools since the SF. That is fact. This year was the first time in 5 tournaments that a true 5A enrollment school won the 5A championship. 5A became a watered down division when the large class split in two and it's been dominated by non-5a enrollment schools ever since. There really isn't a counter-argument to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Yo... They're a 4A enrollment school. You can use whatever rationale you need to tell yourself otherwise but they would still be playing in 4A if the SF didn't exist. 5A has been dominated by 4A enrollment schools since the SF. That is fact. This year was the first time in 5 tournaments that a true 5A enrollment school won the 5A championship. 5A became a watered down division when the large class split in two and it's been dominated by non-5a enrollment schools ever since. There really isn't a counter-argument to be made. Every time you brag about Cathedral........."4A enrollment schools running away with state titles (New Pal and Cathedral)".................I'm going to kindly remind you that they have zero boundaries. You're blind as a bat if you think they don't have an advantage over their 4a counterparts (and pretty much all of 5a). Edited December 7, 2022 by BTF 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, BTF said: Every time you brag about Cathedral........."4A enrollment schools running away with state titles (New Pal and Cathedral)".................I'm going to kindly remind you that they have zero boundaries. You're blind as a bat if you think they don't have an advantage over their 4a counterparts (and pretty much all of 5a). Brag? I'm stating facts. 4A enrollment schools have dominated 5A. There's literally no argument to be made otherwise. Cathedral has the same boundaries as every other public school in Central Indiana. How many times and from how many posters do you need to be told that open enrollment absolutely kills any argument to the contrary? Cathedral has plenty of advantages over their 4A and 5A counterparts and none of them have to do with "zero boundaries". And by the way, they're still technically a 4A enrollment school. When the IHSAA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhpatriot04 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 Put all small P/P schools in 3A and all 3A+ P/P schools in 5A. Then use the SF from there. I don't support that, but I think it would solve most of the complaining. Also, I've long supported the 1A/6A ~32 teams (probably less), then evenly distributing 2A-5A (5A wouldn't be a 32-team class). But take it a step further and go to only four classes -- 2A and 3A would need an extra week of tournament games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 Delete 1a delete 6a top 64 teams in 5a bottom 128 teams in 2a 64 3a 64 4a reverse SF, move teams down when they are uncompetitive, and use current SF point system to decide who moves up to replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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