IMG-Ben Davis: Why is this game being played?

[BTF]

1 hour ago, psaboy said:

Couldn't find anything in quick review of threads. I'll take your word for it. Are you wondering why WC is playing the Mighty Panthers of Snider or vice versa? 

They've played in the regular season four times before, so it shouldn't be a surprise that they scheduled one another. They are 2-2 in those games. 

In that thread, Temp was asking what would make Snider a contender in 5a.........by coming within how many points of Warren Central. My number was 17, and that's not a knock on Snider. It's more about having half the resources WC has and catching them on an upswing. Many are predicting Warren to be one of the best teams in 6A this year. 

Snider's planning on winning on Friday night, no doubt about it..........and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they did. But I've got to go with the Warriors in this one. 

[BTF]

Anyway, not to hijack the BD/IMG thread. Good luck to the Giants, I hope they make a good showing. 

[psaboy]

2 hours ago, BTF said:

Anyway, not to hijack the BD/IMG thread. Good luck to the Giants, I hope they make a good showing. 

Though not likely, It would be a big statement for Indiana Football if they would beat them. Are they bringing their A team to Indy?

[BTF]

18 minutes ago, psaboy said:

Though not likely, It would be a big statement for Indiana Football if they would beat them. Are they bringing their A team to Indy?

Yes.

[gahoosierfan]

On 8/9/2023 at 9:23 AM, Footballking16 said:

I know there are certain high school state athletic associations who have barred their teams from playing schools like IMG for this exact purpose, Georgia specifically. I think Texas in another. x

Georgia banned all schools from playing IMG several years ago. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 8/11/2023 at 12:20 PM, Ballhawk said:

So if I'm faster than you on turf I'm not faster than you on grass?

Warren was bigger, faster and stronger.  Does grass change that too?

Enlighten me.

The idea was teams that play on turf more than in grass, schools would grow out their grass in hopes to slow them down some. 

It was a joke, because I have been very open that we were outclassed that night. 

[BTF]

1 hour ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

The idea was teams that play on turf more than in grass, schools would grow out their grass in hopes to slow them down some. 

It was a joke, because I have been very open that we were outclassed that night. 

Yes. A player is faster on turf than he is on grass (short grass). That's not an opinion. Absolutely, one hundred percent, would a team like Penn be better served playing someone like Ben Davis or Warren Central on grass. Unless it's snowing or raining, the outcome is still the same, but by a lessor margin. I'm not sure how this is even debatable. 

[temptation]

14 minutes ago, BTF said:

Yes. A player is faster on turf than he is on grass (short grass). That's not an opinion. Absolutely, one hundred percent, would a team like Penn be better served playing someone like Ben Davis or Warren Central on grass. Unless it's snowing or raining, the outcome is still the same, but by a lessor margin. I'm not sure how this is even debatable. 

Aren’t the Penn players also slower as a result or are they playing on turf while BD/Warren is playing the same game on grass?

I’m so confused here.

Let’s say you and I race 100 meters on flat ground and you beat me by 2 seconds..then we repeat the race a day later but run 100 meters up a 2% incline would I suddenly be within less than a second or would the margin still be the same?

Edited August 14, 2023 by temptation

[Bobref]

22 minutes ago, BTF said:

Yes. A player is faster on turf than he is on grass (short grass). That's not an opinion.

Tests have shown that straight ahead speed in the 40 does not materially differ whether on short natural grass or artificial turf. However, change of direction speed is significantly faster on an artificial surface.

[BTF]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

Aren’t the Penn players also slower as a result or are they playing on turf while BD/Warren is playing the same game on grass?

I’m so confused here.

Let’s say you and I race 100 meters on flat ground and you beat me by 2 seconds..then we repeat the race a day later but ran 100 meters but up a 2% incline would I suddenly be within less than a second or would the margin still be the same?

Correct. But you and I both know that teams like Ben Davis and Warren Central rely heavily on speed, whereas Penn always relied on strength and mechanics.  I'd want to slow them down by any means possible. If Penn played one of those schools on a neutral field, and the Penn coach had the opportunity to pick turf or grass, 100/100 coaches would pick grass. 

Does rain and snow affect the favorite and the underdog equally? I would argue no. Bad elements brings a good team's level of play down to their opponent. I think it was an Indy poster who called it "the great equalizer." I'm not saying grass is an equalizer by any means, far from it. I'm just saying that if I don't have a bunch of speed burners myself, then I sure as hell don't want to play a bunch of speed burners on turf. 

I agree, Ben Davis could have dropped 100 on Penn in 2017 if they wanted to. But I'd bet they wouldn't hit 63 on grass. I'm not sure how turf wouldn't make a difference.

Create a poll Temp. I'll only concede if 80% of the vote is your favor. 

6 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Tests have shown that straight ahead speed in the 40 does not materially differ whether on short natural grass or artificial turf. However, change of direction speed is significantly faster on an artificial surface.

Wouldn't that favor a team that relied heavily on speed? 

[Bobref]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

Wouldn't that favor a team that relied heavily on speed? 

No doubt.

[bucksfan]

On 8/9/2023 at 3:07 PM, BDGiant93 said:

I have not heard of any specific financials on the IMG game. I can certainly ask. I believe BD is anticipating a large gate for the game.

Again, as I stated earlier, I really believe the friendship of Jason Simmons and one of the coaches at IMG started the ball rolling on this one. 

2 Things since everyone seems to be speculating.  

Are we sure BD is not getting paid to Host IMG?

Related to the first question, I am willing to bet they are flying here.

Tuition at IMG is listed between 45K and 90K. 

https://world-schools.com/schools/img-academy/

 Scroll down the page to find tuition fees.

So to answer the question that started this thread, MONEY!

 

[cloudofdust]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:27 PM, BTF said:

Yes. A player is faster on turf than he is on grass (short grass). That's not an opinion. Absolutely, one hundred percent, would a team like Penn be better served playing someone like Ben Davis or Warren Central on grass. Unless it's snowing or raining, the outcome is still the same, but by a lessor margin. I'm not sure how this is even debatable. 

I'm not sure I have ever understood this argument. I've played and coached on both surfaces. Not one time did one team play on turf while the other had to play on grass.

If it makes one team faster, it proportionally makes the other team faster.

 

 

 

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, bucksfan said:

2 Things since everyone seems to be speculating.  

Are we sure BD is not getting paid to Host IMG?

Related to the first question, I am willing to bet they are flying here.

Tuition at IMG is listed between 45K and 90K. 

https://world-schools.com/schools/img-academy/

 Scroll down the page to find tuition fees.

So to answer the question that started this thread, MONEY!

 

I'm saying there's a 0% chance IMG's A team players are paying anywhere close to that kind of tuition, if any tuition at all. 

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, bucksfan said:

2 Things since everyone seems to be speculating.  

Are we sure BD is not getting paid to Host IMG?

Related to the first question, I am willing to bet they are flying here.

Tuition at IMG is listed between 45K and 90K. 

https://world-schools.com/schools/img-academy/

 Scroll down the page to find tuition fees.

So to answer the question that started this thread, MONEY!

 

IMG as it is today started as a privately run tennis academy in the late 70's and was bought by IMG, which at the time was the world's largest talent and sports management company, and turned into a boarding school that specialized in personal athletic growth. IMG merged with Endeavor in $2billion acquisition about a decade ago and actually just sold the IMG Academy to a PE firm for over a billion dollars.   

[BTF]

1 hour ago, cloudofdust said:

I'm not sure I have ever understood this argument. I've played and coached on both surfaces. Not one time did one team play on turf while the other had to play on grass.

If it makes one team faster, it proportionally makes the other team faster.

 

 

 

Never said it made one team faster than the other. I said it gives the faster team the advantage. Not sure why what I'm saying is so hard to comprehend. I guess agree to disagree on this one. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

4 hours ago, BTF said:

Never said it made one team faster than the other. I said it gives the faster team the advantage. Not sure why what I'm saying is so hard to comprehend. I guess agree to disagree on this one. 

One could argue, that the team that decides to grow the grass out has the entire week to prepare and practice in the longer grass....

Not arguing with anyone on this point, the original comment was a throw away joke that spun into a huge debate about nothing...

It is all hypothetical, who really cares.  The gist is Penn got waxed three times at state, and has now been getting waxed in earlier rounds of the playoffs.  Penn is falling way behind while other sections of the state are growing and building their programs.  

It is a shame, but oh well.

[temptation]

By no means do I believe BD can win this contest and I am not sure Moeller looked like the #2 team Ohio last night but Ben Davis made a HUGE statement and might find themselves in the nationwide top 100 sooner rather than later…

Edited August 19, 2023 by temptation

[FastpacedO]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:57 PM, BTF said:

Correct. But you and I both know that teams like Ben Davis and Warren Central rely heavily on speed, whereas Penn always relied on strength and mechanics.  I'd want to slow them down by any means possible. If Penn played one of those schools on a neutral field, and the Penn coach had the opportunity to pick turf or grass, 100/100 coaches would pick grass. 

Ben Davis and Warren Central during the years they won State were very fast. Their speed however was not their only thing relied on as mentioned. They also had an abundance of strength and yes even mechanics. Example Warren Central's Darren Evans was fast, but his pure strength showed in every game he played in. Warren Central also ran to perfection using "mechanics" their triple option Wing T under coach Wright and Coach Tutsie. I in no way feel that speed was heavily relied on more than any other aspect. As a matter of fact I would argue that their mechanics and strength provided opportunities to showcase their speed. They were not just running sweeps and beating people with speed on the outside, they would run it right up your throat.

I am sure the coaches would pick grass. In all honesty in those years, the result would have been identical if it were on grass, dirt, or turf. If the feeling is grass slows down the faster team, it also slows down the slower team so it is a wash.

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

By no means do I believe BD can win this contest and I am not sure Moeller looked like the #2 team Ohio last night but Ben Davis made a HUGE statement and might find themselves in the nationwide top 100 sooner rather than later…

I believe there is a way Ben Davis can, but that doesn't mean they will. Even with all the hoopla about IMG and their band of All Stars. They can look great at times, but they also can look terrible at times. Not terrible from an athletic or talent point of view, but terrible in 11 players on the field going rogue and doing their own thing to try and get the highlight rather than playing as a team. Sometimes it bites them in the rear and sometimes the raw talent overcomes the lack of discipline. Most likely Ben Davis will lose this game, but If they catch IMG in their individual showboat moments and make it a game (getting them frustrated) they possibly could steal a victory. I don't foresee that happening, but anything is possible.  

[Footballking16]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

By no means do I believe BD can win this contest and I am not sure Moeller looked like the #2 team Ohio last night but Ben Davis made a HUGE statement and might find themselves in the nationwide top 100 sooner rather than later…

Yep. 
 

Ben Davis made a statement last night. They could still lose to IMG by 50 and still be one of the favorites to win 6A. Waiting to see how CG fares against Ed’s.

[BTF]

4 hours ago, temptation said:

By no means do I believe BD can win this contest and I am not sure Moeller looked like the #2 team Ohio last night but Ben Davis made a HUGE statement and might find themselves in the nationwide top 100 sooner rather than later…

Agree, huge statement game by the Giants. What about Brownsburg? Did that turn any heads? Or did they "just" beat Dwenger? I'm not sure even Fort Wayne residents have the answer to that one. 

[Footballking16]

7 minutes ago, BTF said:

Agree, huge statement game by the Giants. What about Brownsburg? Did that turn any heads? Or did they "just" beat Dwenger? I'm not sure even Fort Wayne residents have the answer to that one. 

I’ve seen multiple Dwenger posters state their team is way down this year. 

[temptation]

22 minutes ago, BTF said:

Agree, huge statement game by the Giants. What about Brownsburg? Did that turn any heads? Or did they "just" beat Dwenger? I'm not sure even Fort Wayne residents have the answer to that one. 

We will definitely find out more next week.

[BTF]

5 minutes ago, temptation said:

We will definitely find out more next week.

Agree. Dwenger/Moeller should be a dandy. 

[temptation]

3 minutes ago, BTF said:

Agree. Dwenger/Moeller should be a dandy. 

Was referring to Brownsburg/Cathedral.