Footballking16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Muda69 said: I don't know. For most programs a state title is very much realistically out of their grasp while a conference championship can be a much more achievable goal to strive for. What about qualifying for the postseason? Would certainly spice up the regular season for those team who don’t have a shot at a state or conference title. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Footballking16 said: What about qualifying for the postseason? Would certainly spice up the regular season for those team who don’t have a shot at a state or conference title. Agreed. I just worry that such a qualification process will change how schools look at a conference title, because now playing those same 6-7 conference schools every season may reduce your chance to qualify for a postseason berth, based on whatever algorithm is used. This could have the very real chance of schools dropping conference memberships, at least in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Agreed. I just worry that such a qualification process will change how schools look at a conference title, because now playing those same 6-7 conference schools every season may reduce your chance to qualify for a postseason berth, based on whatever algorithm is used. This could have the very real chance of schools dropping conference memberships, at least in football. How can anyone look at a conference title under the current format and say it means a thing? There are literally teams every year who win their conference and get a harder playoff draw than a team who finishes dead last. It doesn't make any sense. I've never seen at any other level of athletic competition where winning you conference/league/division/etc doesn't give you the best possible outcome to succeed in the postseason over your peers. Edited February 20 by Footballking16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: How can anyone look at a conference title under the current format and say it means a thing? There are literally teams every year who win their conference and get a harder playoff draw than a team who finishes dead last. It doesn't make any sense. I've never seen at any other level of athletic competition where winning you conference/league/division/etc doesn't give you the best possible outcome to succeed in the postseason over your peers. So you are ok with conference memberships in football being a possible victim of a postseason qualification process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Muda69 said: So you are ok with conference memberships in football being a possible victim of a postseason qualification process? Why would that matter? If you're in an all 4A conference and go 2-8 in the regular season against 4A competition you likely aren't nor should you qualify for the postseason. If you're a 2A school playing in a predominantly 4A-6A conference and go .500 you're still likely one of the top half 2A teams. I'm not sure why you would think conference memberships would fall apart? Raw W-L record would almost never be the sole criteria used in a qualifier and a 4A school looking to game the system by joining a 1A/2A conference would likely suffer the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach1 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Footballking16 said: North Newton went 0-9 in the regular season last year. Average margin of defeat was 50 points on the head. Shut out in 5 of 9 regular season games. Lost 71-6 in opening round of sectionals likely at the expense of a North Judson/Pioneer first round match-up that pitted at the time two top 15 Sagarin teams in 1A against each other. Why should every kid be able to play in a sectional game? A postseason berth should be earned, not the other way around. Every team making the postseason under the guise of the blind draw and really screwing with dynamicity and the competitiveness of the tournament has never really made sense to me. It's a watered down tournament. In your opinion, in my opinion every kid that plays HS football should get to play in the sectional. I don't really see any watered-downness. Seems like semantics to me, honestly. To each their own, but I see no way it's going to change. 5 hours ago, Bobref said: Again, you simply make these pronouncements, without any supporting rationale. A qualification format turns regular season games into playoff games. Who gets excited when two 4-4 teams play each other in Week 9? Nobody. But if a playoff qualifying spot is on the line, suddenly a ho-hum game turns into a playoff game. Better for players, coaches, fans … everyone. Now, explain to everyone why the all-in, with its 9 weeks of practice games, is better for a high school football in Indiana. There is nothing to support. Not allowing children to play a child's game is just ....not the route I'm going to vote for... ever. It's really not all that difficult to understand. More kids should get the opportunity to enjoy a post-season football game--you guys will be fine in the meantime, I promise. Calling 9 games of regular season practice games is a non-starter for me. Take your conversation up with someone else, it isn't changing. Your need for added incentive is absurd, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 7 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Why would that matter? If you're in an all 4A conference and go 2-8 in the regular season against 4A competition you likely aren't nor should you qualify for the postseason. If you're a 2A school playing in a predominantly 4A-6A conference and go .500 you're still likely one of the top half 2A teams. I'm not sure why you would think conference memberships would fall apart? Raw W-L record would almost never be the sole criteria used in a qualifier and a 4A school looking to game the system by joining a 1A/2A conference would likely suffer the consequences. It would depend on the criteria used for a qualifier, and I am not sure I have seen one presented here on the GID that I like or honestly even fully understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said: In your opinion, in my opinion every kid that plays HS football should get to play in the sectional. I don't really see any watered-downness. Seems like semantics to me, honestly. To each their own, but I see no way it's going to change. A system that allows 0-9 North Newton to play in the postseason falls at the expense of two teams like Brownsburg and Ben Davis playing each other in the 1st round is the very definition of watered-down. It should never happen in a format where the regular season actually has real meaning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, Muda69 said: It would depend on the criteria used for a qualifier, and I am not sure I have seen one presented here on the GID that I like or honestly even fully understand. A rating formula that accounts for W-L record, Opponent W-L record, SOS, and opponent SOS which includes out of state competition. It's essentially what CalPreps uses. Decide if you want to incorporate margin of victory or not, you can always cap it too. https://calpreps.com/ratings.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach1 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: A system that allows 0-9 North Newton to play in the postseason falls at the expense of two teams like Brownsburg and Ben Davis playing each other in the 1st round is the very definition of watered-down. It should never happen in a format where the regular season actually has real meaning. That doesn't even match up. I said seed the sectionals. My god it's HS football, not college or the pros. None of these teams are getting cheated. Ben Davis and Brownsburg are 8 mins apart.. I mean, of course, they play a lot in the sectional? Edited February 20 by btownqbcoach1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, btownqbcoach1 said: That doesn't even match up. I said seed the sectionals. My god it's HS football, not college or the pros. None of these teams are getting cheated. Ben Davis and Brownsburg are 8 mins apart.. I mean, of course, they play a lot in the sectional? Why should a postseason qualifier be limited to college and pro's? Literally every other state in America has a qualifier for their high school postseason format. Hell, 20 years ago back in my day you had to qualify for the CYO playoffs as early as 4th grade, they didn't just hand out trophies to everyone. And you absolutely are cheating teams when you don't value or recognize their regular season accomplishments. Why play the regular season in the first place if nothing is taken into consideration after the fact? As far as Ben Davis and Brownsburg being 8 minutes apart? Who cares. Cut 6A South in half, seed them 1-8 and this game is played in Mid-November like it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach1 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, Footballking16 said: Why should a postseason qualifier be limited to college and pro's? Literally every other state in America has a qualifier for their high school postseason format. Hell, 20 years ago back in my day you had to qualify for the CYO playoffs as early as 4th grade, they didn't just hand out trophies to everyone. And you absolutely are cheating teams when you don't value or recognize their regular season accomplishments. Why play the regular season in the first place if nothing is taken into consideration after the fact? As far as Ben Davis and Brownsburg being 8 minutes apart? Who cares. Cut 6A South in half, seed them 1-8 and this game is played in Mid-November like it should be. Who's handing out trophies now? Why play the regular season? Well because it's fun? ... kids enjoy it? children create life-long experiences/memories? children learn a lot from their athletic experience? I could list the reasons for a while. There is no one being cheated. Who cares whether they play 3 weeks earlier? Again, semantics. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't actually believe I am reading people say a football game is meaningless. Go watch Columbus East/North play--- tell me how meaningless it is. Brownstown/Seymour. Lawrenceburg East Central. Every Evansville game lol Meaningless if you aren't a competitor, I guess. Man, that's a tough sell... games are meaningless because everyone gets into a state tourney? That's wild and sort of soft, not going to lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 9 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said: Who's handing out trophies now? Why play the regular season? Well because it's fun? ... kids enjoy it? children create life-long experiences/memories? children learn a lot from their athletic experience? I could list the reasons for a while. There is no one being cheated. Who cares whether they play 3 weeks earlier? Again, semantics. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can't actually believe I am reading people say a football game is meaningless. Go watch Columbus East/North play--- tell me how meaningless it is. Brownstown/Seymour. Lawrenceburg East Central. Every Evansville game lol Meaningless if you aren't a competitor, I guess. Man, that's a tough sell... games are meaningless because everyone gets into a state tourney? That's wild and sort of soft, not going to lie. Lol. You can still have a fun 9 or 10 game regular season all while not being entitled to a postseason game. Novel concept I know. It's done in every other state in America. And yes regular season games under the current format are in fact meaningless. Whether you go 9-0 and 0-9, your postseason fate is sealed before the season even starts by virtue of the all-in format and your draw is literally determined by a ping pong ball. Literally nothing that happens in weeks 1-9 has a single bearing on the postseason. They are in fact meaningless and how it relates to the overall course of the season. A literal fact that cannot be refuted. Edited February 20 by Footballking16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqbcoach1 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Lol. You can still have a fun 9 or 10 game regular season all while not being entitled to a postseason game. Novel concept I know. It's done in every other state in America. And yes regular season games under the current format are in fact meaningless. Whether you go 9-0 and 0-9, your postseason fate is sealed before the season even starts by virtue of the all-in format and your draw is literally determined by a ping pong ball. Literally nothing that happens in weeks 1-9 has a single bearing on the postseason. They are in fact meaningless and how it relates to the overall course of the season. A literal fact that cannot be refuted. They aren't, at all. Maybe from a fan's perspective? Idk hard to see where you're coming from with any of this, or have any energy towards some teams not getting in the tourney and that being a good thing for the sport. It's definitely meaningful--- how do you think we get prepared for the tourney? There, that refuted your alleged "fact"..... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 24 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: Why play the regular season in the first place if nothing is taken into consideration after the fact? For The Love Of The Game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 i think we oughta chuck everyone into the same class play a 19 game regular season sectionals will be done in one weekend ending in a best of 3 for the sectional championship the following week we'll knock out a best of 3 for regionals on wednesday and another one on saturday for semistate for the state championship they just keep playing games until one team wins 6 in a row incase of a blowout in the state championship this allows us to maintain the whole weekend for drinking and screaming at zebras from the endzone 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said: They aren't, at all. Maybe from a fan's perspective? Idk hard to see where you're coming from with any of this, or have any energy towards some teams not getting in the tourney and that being a good thing for the sport. It's definitely meaningful--- how do you think we get prepared for the tourney? There, that refuted your alleged "fact"..... lol You're confusing sentimental feeling with real tangible meaning. Everyone loves to beat a rival, never disagreed with that, but your record and subsequent play during the first 9 weeks has ZERO real tangible meaning. 0-9 or 9-0 It.Literally.Doesn't.Matter. You're in the playoffs no matter what and your draw is defined by nothing more than a ping pong ball. You will NEVER be able to refute this under the current format no matter how hard you puff your chest. And with your second paragraph you've literally just described a glorified 2.5 month long exhibition season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: stuff when you work hard to build a reputation of hurting the enemy kicker every game that carries on into the post season this is a joke i don't condone hurting anyone intentionally yada yada yada believe me he will be shitting himself come game time and it will give you an advantage if you are taking this seriously sit down and relax that is enough computer time good talk so in this scenario yes the regular season will play an integral part of the post season Edited February 20 by Rodney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Bragg Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Footballking16 said: A rating formula that accounts for W-L record, Opponent W-L record, SOS, and opponent SOS which includes out of state competition. It's essentially what CalPreps uses. Decide if you want to incorporate margin of victory or not, you can always cap it too. https://calpreps.com/ratings.htm I found Massey Ratings to be quite accurate this past football year. Their score predictions were also very accurate. Basically, there are several ratings systems that have proven to be reliable barometers, but we just keep pretending like these things don't exist. Massey Ratings Description Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, Daniel_Bragg said: I found Massey Ratings to be quite accurate this past football year. Their score predictions were also very accurate. Basically, there are several ratings systems that have proven to be reliable barometers, but we just keep pretending like these things don't exist. Massey Ratings Description Agreed. The rating method used to cut the field in half at the conclusion of the regular season AFTER a 10th regular season game is added should be the least of the concerns. There' multiple, reliable ones out there that a multitude of other states use every single year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 hours ago, JQWL said: It does seem like with what you're wanting to do is add a 10th which according to you would add a meaningless game. It wouldn't make it a playoff atmosphere for teams trying to qualify because we'd use some kind of mathematical formula to determine if you're in the top half that wouldn't come out until you know the scores of all the games Saturday. If you're not in the top 50% after week 9, then it won't change much after week 10. All I can say is that you’re dead wrong about all of that. Take a look at a state like Ohio. That last weekend of the season, you have de facto elimination games, where whether you get in or not depends on that last game. You think those teams, their fans, the coaches, the media, don’t keep track of their Harbin points, and those of other playoff contenders? The last few weeks of the season all they talk about is potential playoff scenarios based on “what ifs.” Just like the pros … and college … and every place else but Indiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JQWL Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 12 minutes ago, Bobref said: All I can say is that you’re dead wrong about all of that. Take a look at a state like Ohio. That last weekend of the season, you have de facto elimination games, where whether you get in or not depends on that last game. You think those teams, their fans, the coaches, the media, don’t keep track of their Harbin points, and those of other playoff contenders? The last few weeks of the season all they talk about is potential playoff scenarios based on “what ifs.” Just like the pros … and college … and every place else but Indiana. Then I hope you can find an Ohio Football Digest and save your posts for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 4 hours ago, Daniel_Bragg said: I found Massey Ratings to be quite accurate this past football year. I'll give it "semi-accurate," right up there with Sagarin. Great polls for sure, but they have their flaws. Westfield and HSE over Crown Point? Snider at #12? I'll pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plymouthfan91 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 7 hours ago, Footballking16 said: Brownsburg went undefeated in the toughest conference in the state yet drew a road playoff game against the #2 team in the state, in the first round no less. Should tell you everything you need to know about the value of a conference championship under the current format. 2-7 Avon who finished dead last in said conference and also a 4 TD loser to Brownsburg drew another 2-7 team IN THE SAME SECTIONAL. Make it make sense. At some point Brownsburg would have to beat #2 team in state to win the championship. Why not play it first when everyone is healthy. Win that game and play the winner of the 2-7 teams, which should be a break before your thrid round game. I don't see the difference of when you play another good team or when you play a "bad" team. You have to win them all to win a championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballking16 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 31 minutes ago, Plymouthfan91 said: At some point Brownsburg would have to beat #2 team in state to win the championship. Why not play it first when everyone is healthy. Win that game and play the winner of the 2-7 teams, which should be a break before your thrid round game. I don't see the difference of when you play another good team or when you play a "bad" team. You have to win them all to win a championship. Why didn’t the Chiefs and the 49ers play the first round of the playoffs? Why don’t we have UConn and Purdue play the first round of the NCAA Tournament this year? Because in doing so, you have to readily admit that the regular doesn’t matter. No other sport at any level of competition outside the postseason tournaments the IHSAA puts on, treat the regular season in that light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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