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Misdirection can on occasion create problems for Ben Davis if the lineman can stop the quicker D-lineman from blowing it up in the backfield (there is a reason BD has so many TFL's). Nor does play action (Lawrence North uses a lot of play action because of their fast RB and QB). Brownsburg was able to throw the long ball because they had 2 WR's with just as much speed as Ben Davis. Center Grove went to the quick passing game because Coy and Halubar run terrific routes and are very good with YAC, Cherry also can get a deep drop quickly set his feet and riffle the ball. With Cathedral O'Neil is very good at eluding pressure with eyes down field and is a major threat to run the ball too. I feel for a team like Crown Point a good option would be to run screen pass at the right times. The BD defense likes to be aggressive and screen passes at the right time can catch them. However and can also go bad because they are quick to the QB and their LB's and DB can close quickly.

Could have been a double forfeit. There have been times where Park Tudor has not had many in numbers out for football. A couple of injuries and they would struggle to field a team for a game (in a safe manner). I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case.

East Central's defense gets largely overshadowed by their terrific Offense. They are really good though. Not to mention they bring a defensive scheme not many teams see often especially the off the ball odd man front.

You will likely see Chatard, Decatur Central, and Crown Point in white on white East Central could be white on red, white on black, or white on white. Lutheran could be white on gold or white on burgundy.

East Central has a 4 headed monster that can run the ball (Ringer, Brotherton, Maxwell, and Minges). Teams know they are going to run it and they still rack up the yards. If you pack the box to stop the run you will hear a lot of the name Brotherton for long TD's. Yes East Central runs the ball EXTREMELY well, but when teams load the box and put a DB on an island with Brotherton it will not bode well. They throw the ball effectively and have a terrific WR/RB to catch the ball. Ringer, Brotherton, Maxwell, as well as QB Burton are all Sr's. QB has completed 68% of his passes for 1,312 yds 22 TD's and 2 Int's. They prefer to run the ball but will take advantage of opportunities the defense gives if they load the box. Against Cincinnati Moeller their QB threw 2 passes and had 1 completion (they also threw 1 halfback pass and completed it) so they threw a total of 3 times. Conversly Ringer had 26 carries 246 yds 3 TD's and Maxwell had 12 carries 183 yds 1 TD. All 4 RB's are a threat to take it to the house on each carry.

1.) In the words of Ricky Bobby's Dad Reese "If you ain't first your last" there were far less firsts in there. Don't take it so personal the facts he was laying out (no matter how bad the truth hurt) were there even if you don't like it and got hung up on the wording. 2.) I state it as someone who has watched plenty of them play. Said undefeated team destroying Merrillville (heck Chatard has destroyed their "best team ever" in the past) and beating Westfield doesn't change my mind. I didn't make any presumptions off of prior years performance for Cathedral and Center Grove I went by this years performance. Cathedral stymied Ben Davis Offense in the 2nd half forcing them to kick a long game winning FG, and their battered QB (from a relentless BD defense) darn near took them down the field to win (something he has done multiple times the last 3 years). CG stormed back after looking down and out to take a lead in the game forcing Ben Davis to kick a FG to put it into OT, Even forced a near disastrous fumble prior to that FG that luckily was recovered by the one BD player surrounded by multiple CG defenders. BD made the play when it counted in OT. I give Crown Point a 13% chance of winning this game (I gave them a 47% chance of beating Westfield and ate my crow for it). Ben Davis and Westfield or Merrillville are nothing alike. I will say you are pretty solid at talking out of both sides. One minute Brownsburg, Cathedral, and CG are among the top 4 with Ben Davis, the next minute I am making presumptions off of previous years performance with Cathedral, Brownsburg, and CG. Which is it make up your mind. Are they in the upper echelon with Ben Davis or are they not? I will say it Crown Point is fortunate they didn't have to go through the gauntlet of the South bracket, their prize for that fortune they get to play Ben Davis (sole survivor out of BD, Brownsburg, Cathedral, CG) in LOS. We will see how it shakes out Saturday at 7:00pm.

You could see a 50/50 split. 6A favorite Ben Davis 5A Coin Flip for me 4A East Central favorite (also would have been black on black if they were the Home team) 2A haven't watched Luers or North Posey (Luers also could be black on black if they were the Home team)

Brownsburg and Center Grove also can match Ben Davis speed not just contain it. Both of them had speed at multiple positions. Merrilville and Ben Davis are not alike.

Connotation apparently you didn't like my statement I am sure the person you used it on didn't either. Since you brought up about average team Ben Davis has played. And you talk about Body of work (we are headed for the 14th game). I would place Crown Point at about average on the teams Ben Davis has played. They are 100% above the Pike's, Avon's, and North Central's. They also are below the Brownsburg's, Center Grove's, IMG's, and Cathedral's. So that would put them at about average. What Crown Point where would Ben Davis stand to the teams Crown Point has played? I would say they are above every opponent by a landslide personally. It won't mean a hill of beans when they square of in LOS. I have already my personal keys. Can Crown Point match or handle Ben Davis's speed. Can they sustain long drives with points? Those will be 2 keys, they do not want to go into the game planning to get in a shootout, and we will see if they can match handle BD's speed and pressure. Ehrlich and Ellison are great players and CP has a terrific line. Are they better than what Ben Davis has already seen? Probably not maybe on par but not better. Now reverse that same question.

@BDGiant93 will BD be donning the black or the Purple. I only ask because 6A, 5A, 4A, and 2A home teams could all be wearing black jersey on black pants if BD wears all black.

What was it you said to @Lysander "Your true colors are starting to show". I hope for your sake you don't walk away totally disappointed.

Yes CP was up on Westfield 17-0 before they actually started to turn the game around. As for Ben Davis IMG was up on them 21-7 at half and 27-7 at the end of 3rd qtr, IMG won 34-14. Brownsburg was up 13-7 at half, 19-7 at end of 3rd qtr, then 25-7 early in the 4th qtr. before Ben Davis rattled scored again to make it 25-14. Then Ben Davis got a pick 6 making it 25-21 and forced Brownsburg to punt then scored late to win 28-25. Does Ellison have break away speed like Sherrell? Can Erhlich run or throw like Cherry, O'Neil, or Dunn? Questions we will find out on Saturday I guess. The biggest stat I look at when it comes to State Championships is Turnover margin. Crown Point is plus 16 (plus 11 in fumbles and plus 5 in Int's) Ben Davis is plus 22 (plus 5 in fumbles and plus 17 in Int's).

Extremely doubtful you would see Crown Point 21 Ben Davis 0. It might be possible but it's not probable, Ben Davis is far too talented to be shutout. Also Ben Davis isn't in their first ever State Championship game like Center Grove was when they played Penn. Ben Davis is pretty balanced maybe a little more to the passing side of the scale. They have 2023 yds rushing 27 TD's (5 Fumbles lost) and 3042 yds passing 36 TD's (6 Int's). Offensively they have turned the ball over 11 times, very quick RB and a QB that can run and throw as well as 3 WR's with great speed. Defensively the Giants are very good they have 129.5 TFL's, 57 sacks, 23 Int's (4 for TD), 9 Fumble recoveries (2 for TD), and 1 safety. The front seven are very quick and they can sub in multiple players along the D-line, LB's are very active and have some Int's too. In the secondary they have 3 very good DB's Zackery (4 Int's), Contreras (5 Int's) and Falke (3 Int's). They are a very fast and aggressive defense that brings a lot of pressure and because of depth look to get better as the game goes along. Personally I wouldn't game plan to score 42 points if I was Crown Point because it is not likely to happen. I would focus more on sustaining long drives ending with points. The question I would say is how well does Crown Point match Ben Davis' speed and can they manage that speed. 21.77 is Ben Davis average margin of victory on the year. Teams that have matched their speed have kept it to 3 points (Brownsburg, Lawrence Central, Cathedral, Center Grove, Warren Central) with the exception of Lawrence North. Teams that couldn't match their speed ranged from 21 to 62 points. If their defense gets multiple turnovers it could get ugly like it did against Lawrence North.

You are correct they did. However I thought he was asking about big schools in Indiana.

Considering Ben Davis and Center Grove (along with East Central) beat up Moeller in Ohio Div 1 and Moeller will play in the State Semi-Finals against Springfield for a chance to play the winner of St. Edwards vs Hilliard Bradley. Not too bad against Ohio. That being said Center Grove did get handled pretty easily by St. Edward's. St. Edward's only blemish was a 15-13 loss to Ohio Div 2 and undefeated Massillon Washington in Massillon. As for Kentucky Boyle County played no Indiana opponents Trinity played Carmel but it was a very down year for Carmel. One of the teams Frederick Douglas that is in the 6A semi-finals lost to Cathedral in Lexington 28-19. I don't know that there were any meaningful Michigan vs Indiana games.

Not Shabby. Just looked and Calpreps has: 1.) Ben Davis 2.) East Central 3.) Crown Point 4.) Bishop Chatard 5.) Decatur Central 6.) F.W. Snider 7.) Northwood 8.) Heritage Hills 9.) Lutheran 10.) Adams Central 11.) North Posey 12.) F.W. Bishop Luers

The Purichia at Chatard is the younger brother of both Purichia's that played QB at Cardinal Ritter. I thought though one played at U of I and the other at Franklin for college. I will have to defer to @Cyoguru Thank you! I knew the last name sounded familiar. Love the name Jett also!

How many Goldsberry's are there in Lincoln City seems like the last name Goldsberry has been around awhile (of course it could be my old mind playing tricks on me too). BC looked real good just before halftime after @Lysander stuck his tongue to the fuse box to the lights at Arlington. Then looked even better the next morning at Chatard (the Palace not Broad Ripple's Field of Champions). He had to go and spoil all the fun of having more home games at Arlington.

I thought you have been getting free lunches at the Booby Traps all you can eat buffet for years?

So you are saying the only long drives might actually be to the stadium and back home?!

East Central has been around going to State for several years. During the Martini years and winning state. Had some epic close battles with Cathedral and Roncalli. Winning State under Coach Roden (who left to Coach in Ohio) and now Coach Meiners has them playing their typical style of football. Cool thing about this East Central team. We as outside observers (meaning not East Central fans) have got to watch their star players grow in front of our eyes. From the days of Ringer and Brotherton as Freshman starting varsity and having a disappointing loss at Mooresville (who was hot at the time). To their Sophomore year and getting upset in a tight one at Enlow against Ev Memorial. To the Junior year and shocking a VERY good Roncalli team in OT then pound New Prairie into submission. Now this year their Senior year with another shot at a title against Northwood. Ringer and Brotherton have been a load for several years and now add in Maxwell and there is a 3 headed monster to pick your poison from. They play pretty solid defense too, it has been truly enjoyable to watch the Trojans in black and red play.

I think you took it a little too personal. His statement about 5A and what expected from FW Snider are true unfortunately. 6A was formed in 2013 (subtract the years Snider was in 6A 2017, 2018, and 2019. FW Snider made 1 appearance until this year in State Championship for 5A. The 3 years they were in 6A they would have had their hands full with Columbus East (South Rep) and New Pal (1 year North Rep and 1 year South Rep). What he is stating is that with 6A and the large enrollment schools FW Snider should have been "The" team in 5A yet 4A schools moving up were dominating 5A (I think Columbus East would have been moving up to 5A regardless of success factor). I think you struck a nerve In defense of Lysander he has always stated that 5A was the weakest since the start of 6A even when Cathedral was playing in 5A. The major factor teams at that time in 5A were New Palestine, Cathedral, and Columbus East (all coming up from 4A). During F.W. Snider time in 6A, 5A was dominated by Columbus East and New Palestine. You may be taking it a little too personal. Back to the 4A game. East Central's defense kind of flows under the radar with how good their Offense is. The most points scored on their starters definitely was Moeller with 28. Martinsville had 20 but the game was well at hand. I guess we will see how good their secondary is or if they can get pressure on the QB with their odd defensive scheme (odd meaning something not many teams see).

Merrillville and Ben Davis is comparing Apples to Oranges.

Not to mention Coach Mann joined Ben Davis' staff July of 2022 and was named HC at Ben Davis in March of 2023 after Coach Simmons left for a College assistant job. Some neat facts about Coach Mann, he was the former QB for Concord leading them to the 1998 4A State Championship game where they lost to Cathedral (led by Coach Streiff now ad at Cathedral) 38-7. Coach Mann got his start in coaching being a part of Coach Streiff's staff at North Central. He has been an assistant for some pretty solid coaches (Coach Streiff at NC, Coach Haste at NC, Coach Shelton at NC, Coach West at LC and WC, Coach Kirschner at WC, and Coach Simmons at BD). He has done a solid job taking over the reigns at Ben Davis. I highly doubt Ben Davis won't be prepared Coach Mann and his staff have done a great job of getting them prepared for games. I wondered if Ben Davis would beat themselves, but they showed in the Cathedral game they can play disciplined football (0 turnovers). If they have no turnovers in this game they will win, if they have multiple turnovers it could be tight. In a tight game I would take Ben Davis to win too because they have already proven they can win in tight situations. Some things I am certain of. Ben Davis will likely be the fastest team Crown Point has played this year. Every Ben Davis game I have watched (in person or on film) when Alijah Price gets the ball he is lightening quick and if he gets in open field nobody will catch him. They recently have been utilizing Gotkowski's running ability as well as his passing. I also know the Ben Davis defense will bring a defense unlike anything Crown Point has faced. They are fast and relentless with pressure, they have 130 TFL's and 57 sacks (266 QB hurries) for a reason to go along with their 23 Int's and 9 fumble recoveries. Ben Davis definitely brings a lot of speed to the table.

I'm not upset your rankings are your rankings (as are other peoples opinions/rankings). East central absolutely has an opportunity to crown themselves 4A State Champions. East Central had more than 1 quality win over Moeller. Harrison (OH) was a solid Ohio Div 2 team they lost in Regionals to Anderson (13-1 and #1 seed in Region 8 who will play Massillon Washington in the Semi-Finals to get to the Div 2 title game against likely Archbishop Hoban. They also put a running clock on Lawrenceburg (only a year removed from playing for the 3A State Title but not as good this year). Blanked Batesville who ended up losing a tight one to Heritage Hills in Regionals. Running clocked Evansville Memorial in Evansville a week after they knocked off undefeated Evansville Reitz. Shutout a solid but not great New Palestine team. They also beat a Roncalli team but similar margin as Cathedral and Louisville Male. Would they have an unblemished record playing Cathedral, Ben Davis, Brownsburg, or Center Grove's schedule probably not. They would hold their own with that schedule though, they play who they had to play in conference play and beefed up their non-conference games (not their fault Roncalli wasn't as strong this year as the last 2 years). They still played and beat quality opponents along the way, and left no doubt against the teams they should beat. Regardless the only title they will be able to get is the 4A title. You'll be thoroughly impressed with how they play on Saturday. Northwood will trot out some athletes, but East central will be up to the task and put their best foot forward. They are very well coached too which does not get mentioned much. The awe of Brotherton and Ringer usually gets mentioned, but Maxwell had a pretty darn good game against New Palestine.