Leo vs Columbia City-End of Game Officiating??

[Bullhorn99]

I have no skin in this game whatsoever. I was just watching on ihsaatv, and I’ve never seen anything like this before. Leo is ahead 18-15 while Col. City drives to the 4 yard line with 3 seconds left to go and 4th down. Col. City attempts a field goal which is blocked and rolls to the 11 yard line where a Col. City player picks it up and runs into the end zone. The officials conference and somehow award Col. City a second attempt at 4th down from the 4 yard line. Col. City throws a touchdown pass to win the game. I’m not sure what the outcome should have been but I’m pretty sure how it turned out wasn’t correct. 
Anybody have more insight into this situation??

[Irishman]

Here is the link. go to 2:48:38 in the video, you will see the plays

 

[BTF]

It's my understanding that when blocked and recovered BEHIND the line of scrimmage, the offensive team can advance the ball. It should have been a touchdown for Columbia City. It's a shame for Leo, all they had to do was recover the ball after it was blocked, but the team started celebrating instead. 

[Irishman]

From this angle, you can hear the whistle. But the ball is clearly on the ground when it was blown. It looks like the ruling was replay the down because of the whistle. 

 

[Yuccaguy]

15 minutes ago, Irishman said:

From this angle, you can hear the whistle. But the ball is clearly on the ground when it was blown. It looks like the ruling was replay the down because of the whistle. 

 

Ball then gets spotted at the ORIGINAL spot of the 4th down play, NOT at the 4 yard line.  

It was a "loose ball" inadvertent whistle".  Clearly CC would have elected to re-do the down.  But they would not get to advance it.  If so, then they are saying the down counted and would be giving them a "5th down" for the re-do.  

They got the re-try at the wrong spot.  

Edited October 12, 2024 by Yuccaguy
clarity

[Stoner]

32 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Ball then gets spotted at the ORIGINAL spot of the 4th down play, NOT at the 4 yard line.  

It was a "loose ball" inadvertent whistle".  Clearly CC would have elected to re-do the down.  But they would not get to advance it.  If so, then they are saying the down counted and would be giving them a "5th down" for the re-do.  

They got the re-try at the wrong spot.  

The original spot of the 4th down play WAS the four yard line.

Edited October 12, 2024 by Stoner

[MacAttack53]

Honestly the thing I was most surprised about was that the white hat was the one who whistled it dead immediately. I would’ve hoped the crew would’ve talked about that possibility in the timeout prior to the play. No wonder the crew looked so confused after CC picked it up and advanced it for the touchdown.

[Yuccaguy]

12 minutes ago, MacAttack53 said:

Honestly the thing I was most surprised about was that the white hat was the one who whistled it dead immediately. I would’ve hoped the crew would’ve talked about that possibility in the timeout prior to the play. No wonder the crew looked so confused after CC picked it up and advanced it for the touchdown.

Not to beat a dead horse.  But after seeing an on field video.  It also looks like a Linesman on the goal post, whistled it dead during the play, with CC in possession of the ball

15 minutes ago, Stoner said:

The original spot of the 4th down play WAS the four yard line.

Looked like the 5 to me with on field video that I saw...  not the 4

[Bobref]

Unfortunately, this happens far too frequently. Under NF rules, on a kick try (extra point) the ball is dead as soon as it is apparent that the kick has failed. Not so on a field goal attempt. But a field goal from that distance looks like a kick try, and muscle memory kicks in so you blow the whistle when the kick fails. That’s why the proper mechanic is for the crew members to all communicate with one another before the play that “it’s a field goal, the ball remains alive.” Not an excuse. Just an explanation.

[Komets2727]

8 hours ago, Bobref said:

Unfortunately, this happens far too frequently. Under NF rules, on a kick try (extra point) the ball is dead as soon as it is apparent that the kick has failed. Not so on a field goal attempt. But a field goal from that distance looks like a kick try, and muscle memory kicks in so you blow the whistle when the kick fails. That’s why the proper mechanic is for the crew members to all communicate with one another before the play that “it’s a field goal, the ball remains alive.” Not an excuse. Just an explanation.

Good explanation. Mistakes happen as we all are human, just bad optics on the final play of the game

[oldtimeqb]

8 hours ago, Bobref said:

Unfortunately, this happens far too frequently. Under NF rules, on a kick try (extra point) the ball is dead as soon as it is apparent that the kick has failed. Not so on a field goal attempt. But a field goal from that distance looks like a kick try, and muscle memory kicks in so you blow the whistle when the kick fails. That’s why the proper mechanic is for the crew members to all communicate with one another before the play that “it’s a field goal, the ball remains alive.” Not an excuse. Just an explanation.

Thanks for the explanation. 

*Had the whistle not blown - Can K Team advance a blocked kick, provided the ball did not travel past the neutral zone?  But a tipped FG kick that travels beyond the neutral zone is effectively a "punt" - where the ball is not live until a player from R touches it. (a la Leon Lett)  Is that correct? 

 

 

[Bobref]

37 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

Thanks for the explanation. 

*Had the whistle not blown - Can K Team advance a blocked kick, provided the ball did not travel past the neutral zone?  But a tipped FG kick that travels beyond the neutral zone is effectively a "punt" - where the ball is not live until a player from R touches it. (a la Leon Lett)  Is that correct? 

I wouldn’t explain it exactly that way, but it’s close enough. A scrimmage kick, untouched by the receivers beyond the neutral zone, and recovered by the kickers behind the neutral zone, can be advanced by the kickers.

[jets]

15 hours ago, Bobref said:

Unfortunately, this happens far too frequently. Under NF rules, on a kick try (extra point) the ball is dead as soon as it is apparent that the kick has failed. Not so on a field goal attempt. But a field goal from that distance looks like a kick try, and muscle memory kicks in so you blow the whistle when the kick fails. That’s why the proper mechanic is for the crew members to all communicate with one another before the play that “it’s a field goal, the ball remains alive.” Not an excuse. Just an explanation.

SO- what is the procedure for what transpired last night?? Inadvertent whistle- replay the down from original spot?? 

[whiteshoes]

Thanks for the explanation.   I was at that game last night and left having no idea what had just happened. 

[Bobref]

46 minutes ago, jets said:

SO- what is the procedure for what transpired last night?? Inadvertent whistle- replay the down from original spot?? 

Yes. If there is an IW while the ball is loose following a kick, there are no options. Replay the down at the previous spot. Which, I understand, is exactly what the crew did. 

I’m looking forward to seeing the Hudl video. Does anyone know which official blew the whistle on the play?

[whiteshoes]

One final thought on the play, why was Columbia City willing to kick a field goal for a tie before the play, and then went for the touchdown play after the ruling?

[Yuccaguy]

45 minutes ago, whiteshoes said:

One final thought on the play, why was Columbia City willing to kick a field goal for a tie before the play, and then went for the touchdown play after the ruling?

The ball was moved up 1 yard, and they (apparently) felt that they had and could win the game and eliminate ALL confusion at that point.  

[Irishman]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

Yes. If there is an IW while the ball is loose following a kick, there are no options. Replay the down at the previous spot. Which, I understand, is exactly what the crew did. 

I’m looking forward to seeing the Hudl video. Does anyone know which official blew the whistle on the play?

Not sure who blew it, but watching the stream live, and the replays, I could not hear a whistle. This is the only video I have seen where it is clear the whistle blew. But, if you watch the white hat, I am guessing he did. He turns away from the play to signal no good on the FG. 

 

 

[Eric1105]

1 hour ago, Yuccaguy said:

The ball was moved up 1 yard, and they (apparently) felt that they had and could win the game and eliminate ALL confusion at that point.  

You can clearly hear the whistle, I was there, watch the white hat bottom left of screen, signals no good play is dead. That should of never been allowed

[whiteshoes]

On 10/12/2024 at 5:12 PM, Yuccaguy said:

The ball was moved up 1 yard, and they (apparently) felt that they had and could win the game and eliminate ALL confusion at that point.  

Even at that, they ran a pass play that was very questionable as to whether the receiver got into the endzone or not.   As crazy of an ending of a game as I have ever seen.

[Yuccaguy]

Just now, whiteshoes said:

Even at that, they ran a pass play that was very questionable as to whether the receiver got into the endzone or not.   As crazy of an ending of a game as I have ever seen.

No comment on the "questionability" of the end zone catch.  Just giving the basics of the reasons for a re-try of the FG.  

[Stoner]

On 10/12/2024 at 5:12 PM, Yuccaguy said:

The ball was moved up 1 yard, and they (apparently) felt that they had and could win the game and eliminate ALL confusion at that point.  

The ball was not moved up. If you actually watch the stream, the QB fumbled (and recovered) the 3rd down snap, and the 4th down spot placed the nose of the ball on the 4 yard line. And they replayed the down from exactly the same spot.

[Yuccaguy]

13 minutes ago, Stoner said:

The ball was not moved up. If you actually watch the stream, the QB fumbled (and recovered) the 3rd down snap, and the 4th down spot placed the nose of the ball on the 4 yard line. And they replayed the down from exactly the same spot.

WHATEVER

[JustRules]

5 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

WHATEVER

Both plays clearly look to have been snapped at the 4. Not sure where you are seeing the ball was snapped at the 5.