Schedule Upgrades

[23andCounting]

13 hours ago, temptation said:

Avon is building a monster…just not reflected in the win/loss column yet.

Care to elaborate?

 

13 hours ago, temptation said:

LN will destroy East Central if their trajectory continues like I expect it to.

Are the East Central and New Pal programs on equal footing?

[temptation]

1 hour ago, 23andCounting said:

Care to elaborate?

 

Are the East Central and New Pal programs on equal footing?

The Avon statement is pretty simple.  Same reason Pike will give Crown Point some trouble.  The HCC is the best conference in Indiana and the Orioles are on the upswing despite the record not being impressive.

I can get on board with your second statement, sure.

[23andCounting]

23 minutes ago, temptation said:

The Avon statement is pretty simple.  Same reason Pike will give Crown Point some trouble.  The HCC is the best conference in Indiana and the Orioles are on the upswing despite the record not being impressive.

I can get on board with your second statement, sure.

I don't know, I'm just trying to defer from someone from Indy. East Central, although good every year, was a one off in 2023 I think. So I can see where LN might be a little too much for them. I guess I see them as a similar program to New Pal, although I'd have to give the Dragon's the edge. Not sure anyone would say "LN will destroy New Pal," hence the comparison. But then again New Pal was kind of a one off last season. Programs like those can put a team together every four or five years that can compete with the best of the best. Otherwise, enrollments are just too small to compete with 6A programs on an annual basis.

"The Avon statement is pretty simple." You must be pretty bullish on Rob Gibson. I don't know anything about him other than he having a couple of fantastic seasons at Owen Valley. Will that transition into success at the 6A level? What's his story prior to Owen Valley? Any other reasons to be bullish on Avon other than Gibson? Enrollment + Gibson = Good luck and God Bless to anyone in their path?

[temptation]

57 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

I don't know, I'm just trying to defer from someone from Indy. East Central, although good every year, was a one off in 2023 I think. So I can see where LN might be a little too much for them. I guess I see them as a similar program to New Pal, although I'd have to give the Dragon's the edge. Not sure anyone would say "LN will destroy New Pal," hence the comparison. But then again New Pal was kind of a one off last season. Programs like those can put a team together every four or five years that can compete with the best of the best. Otherwise, enrollments are just too small to compete with 6A programs on an annual basis.

"The Avon statement is pretty simple." You must be pretty bullish on Rob Gibson. I don't know anything about him other than he having a couple of fantastic seasons at Owen Valley. Will that transition into success at the 6A level? What's his story prior to Owen Valley? Any other reasons to be bullish on Avon other than Gibson? Enrollment + Gibson = Good luck and God Bless to anyone in their path?

Avon has all parts moving in the same direction for the first time in a while..let’s leave it at that.

[US31]

Last season Avon, arguably, was hit by the worst injury bug of any team in Indy.

[temptation]

5 minutes ago, US31 said:

Last season Avon, arguably, was hit by the worst injury bug of any team in Indy.

Also had a recent change in athletic leadership along with a pair of top notch strength and conditioning guys.

Seems like most of the sports are responding positively and are on the upswing.

Boys basketball completely turned their program around overnight (a couple of transfers helped) as they were ranked as high as #2 in the state.

Girls basketball trending towards respectability.

Volleyball always been legitimate.

Boys track with a great chance to win its second state title this June.

 

[superjay]

On 2/4/2025 at 1:06 PM, Muda69 said:

Here is a powerhouse schedule for a supposed "4A" school:

 

Wait til you get a piece of Cascade!  They should make a deep run in 3A.  Be sure that is Homecoming.

[Bobref]

South Adams opening the season at Marion Local in Ohio, winners of 4 straight state championships and the nation’s longest winning streak at 64 games? Quite an upgrade.

[23andCounting]

9 hours ago, Bobref said:

South Adams opening the season at Marion Local in Ohio, winners of 4 straight state championships and the nation’s longest winning streak at 64 games? Quite an upgrade.

Need more of that in the Northeast part of the state. I'd personally rather see Adams Central take them on though. The Starfires have their work cut out for them. I like Dwenger's addition of St. Francis De Sales out of Toledo. Fort Wayne and Toledo are massive rivals on the ice, would love to see that translate over to high school football. 

[crimsonace1]

On 4/12/2025 at 1:42 PM, 23andCounting said:

I don't know, I'm just trying to defer from someone from Indy. East Central, although good every year, was a one off in 2023 I think. So I can see where LN might be a little too much for them. I guess I see them as a similar program to New Pal, although I'd have to give the Dragon's the edge. Not sure anyone would say "LN will destroy New Pal," hence the comparison. But then again New Pal was kind of a one off last season. Programs like those can put a team together every four or five years that can compete with the best of the best. Otherwise, enrollments are just too small to compete with 6A programs on an annual basis.

New Pal returns eight offensive and 10 defensive starters (although the one graduated defensive player is Michael Thacker, who might have been the best DL in the state), so I'm not sure last year was a one-off. They'll have a tougher go of it in 5A, though, with Cathedral likely in the same sectional. 

East Central won a sectional in 5A last year and played the eventual champs to a five-point game in the regional after basically graduating everyone from a team that won back-to-back 4A titles. They have a really good program. I'd put them on equal footing. 

[23andCounting]

58 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

New Pal returns eight offensive and 10 defensive starters (although the one graduated defensive player is Michael Thacker, who might have been the best DL in the state), so I'm not sure last year was a one-off. They'll have a tougher go of it in 5A, though, with Cathedral likely in the same sectional. 

East Central won a sectional in 5A last year and played the eventual champs to a five-point game in the regional after basically graduating everyone from a team that won back-to-back 4A titles. They have a really good program. I'd put them on equal footing. 

Great post, much respect for both programs. I stated that "I'd give the Dragon's the edge" very cautiously. I think EC has one of the best programs in the state.  If New Pal returns 18 as you suggest, I'd say they're a slight favorite over Cathedral to take 5A. Either way, it will more than likely come down to those two. Would love to see Merrillville give them a run. 

[Bears62]

On 4/13/2025 at 10:23 AM, US31 said:

Last season Avon, arguably, was hit by the worst injury bug of any team in Indy.

They pretty much got dominated by Lafayette Jeff Week 1.. were down like 31-7 at half I believe. Unless they had some major injuries in the offseason, I think we need to settle down on the Avon talk.

[Lurker]

EC made some schedule changes for 2026.  Dropping Lawrence North, Greensburg, and South Dearborn.  Adding @New Pal in week 2, @Cincinnati Elder in week 3, and home vs Columbus North in week 8.  Not sure what the agreements are with NP or CN but Elder was 2 years last I heard.  

[crimsonace1]

On 7/11/2025 at 4:16 PM, Lurker said:

EC made some schedule changes for 2026.  Dropping Lawrence North, Greensburg, and South Dearborn.  Adding @New Pal in week 2, @Cincinnati Elder in week 3, and home vs Columbus North in week 8.  Not sure what the agreements are with NP or CN but Elder was 2 years last I heard.  

Generally, all contracts are for two years (other than the very rare and occasional one-year deal to fill a schedule hole). 

I remember one year, when I was coaching girls basketball about two decades ago, we had an AD who would hire officials years in advance and thus had the schedule chiseled in stone. There was one opponent we wanted to drop - because their school size had doubled and we weren't competitive with them, our schedule was already loaded as it was and there were some other issues - and I happened to notice that *two weeks* after we asked our AD to drop them, he renewed the contract for four years. Needless to say, we were livid. But four-year contracts are generally the exception and not the rule. 

[WestfieldRocks]

On 2/4/2025 at 11:44 AM, US31 said:

As a former "North" player....Glad to see more and more HCC/MIC* vs "True North" 6A non con games.  I think this is an overall plus for Indiana football.  Off the top of my head...

• CP vs Pike
• FWC vs HSE & CG
• Homestead vs Westfield & Noblesville (Carmel last year)
• Snider vs WC last two years but nothing this year?
• (I'm not including now 5A Warsaw - Playing WC)

Why not similar scheduling from....

• Penn: Played Cathedral (I know not MIC or HCC) multiple times recently but nothing this year?  None of the out of state powers they have played recenlty either??
• Elkhart????

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing here, but I am generally curious.  Their schedules are full of 5A, 4A, and even 3A schools.  In fact it looks like the only 6A games for either are each other.  I know their conference limits them but is this the reason they are viewed as second tier to the first 4 programs?  Would Brownsburg have preferred to play a Penn or Elkhart over Jeffersonville? Would Carmel have preffered to restart a Penn rivalry over Centerville (OH)? Would LC prefer to play up North as opposed to Edwardsville (Ill)? Cathedral has 3-4 out of state games per year, would they prefer an Indiana opponent? (Honestly don't know). 

I thought that Westfield vs. Center Grove was to be a home and home. After Westfield pulled the upset at CG last year, maybe CG wanted out of traveling north LOL  Anyway, maybe it was only a one year deal.  

[WestfieldRocks]

On 4/11/2025 at 9:20 PM, temptation said:

Avon is building a monster…just not reflected in the win/loss column yet.

LN will destroy East Central if their trajectory continues like I expect it to.

Avon and Brownsburg both have had a large enrollment increase in recent years. Avon is now the 7th largest high school, ahead of HSE and just behind Fishers. Maybe some "overflow" from Wayne Township, although Wayne's numbers look steady. 

[23andCounting]

3 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

I thought that Westfield vs. Center Grove was to be a home and home. After Westfield pulled the upset at CG last year, maybe CG wanted out of traveling north LOL  Anyway, maybe it was only a one year deal.  

I doubt that's the case. Would be ironic if it was, considering all the "everyone is afraid to play us" rhetoric that comes out of that community. 

[Indiana Fan]

7 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

I thought that Westfield vs. Center Grove was to be a home and home. After Westfield pulled the upset at CG last year, maybe CG wanted out of traveling north LOL  Anyway, maybe it was only a one year deal.  

From what I know it was a one year contract. CG moved their schedule around last year to play Westfield after Westfield  originally told them no to playing. I have a few AD friends that both confirmed this. CG wanted to continue this on, but Warren came back into their schedule. I really wish HCC would have voted CG into the conference a few years back.

[Yuccaguy]

I just had a rural 3A school drop an intra-county school (2A) to schedule a FW powerhouse (5A) for next year in Week One.

I'm confused at the decision.  Though it makes sense for the rural 3A school, competition-wise. 

Not so sure about the 5A school, unless they just "settled" on a matchup to round out their schedule.  Sometimes, these 5A's should look out of state and see what's open....just sayin.  

[BLACKGOLD2007]

On 2/4/2025 at 11:44 AM, US31 said:

As a former "North" player....Glad to see more and more HCC/MIC* vs "True North" 6A non con games.  I think this is an overall plus for Indiana football.  Off the top of my head...

• CP vs Pike
• FWC vs HSE & CG
• Homestead vs Westfield & Noblesville (Carmel last year)
• Snider vs WC last two years but nothing this year?
• (I'm not including now 5A Warsaw - Playing WC)

Why not similar scheduling from....

• Penn: Played Cathedral (I know not MIC or HCC) multiple times recently but nothing this year?  None of the out of state powers they have played recenlty either??
• Elkhart????

I don't want to sound like I'm bashing here, but I am generally curious.  Their schedules are full of 5A, 4A, and even 3A schools.  In fact it looks like the only 6A games for either are each other.  I know their conference limits them but is this the reason they are viewed as second tier to the first 4 programs?  Would Brownsburg have preferred to play a Penn or Elkhart over Jeffersonville? Would Carmel have preffered to restart a Penn rivalry over Centerville (OH)? Would LC prefer to play up North as opposed to Edwardsville (Ill)? Cathedral has 3-4 out of state games per year, would they prefer an Indiana opponent? (Honestly don't know). 

With the collapse of the NIC North/South the amount of non conference games was cut to two games. While I cannot speak for Elkhart and not scheduling better teams. Penn elected to drop Carmel for crosstown rival Mishawaka. 

It feels and appears that the Administration could careless about winning another state title game at Penn High School. I am sick of the opening of every home game...5 time state champions...yeah that was a bygone era that every Penn poster clings to as the golden age of Penn football. 

Penn will continue to prove they don't care at the top and the product on the field will show it. I hope I am wrong, but as a former player, this has been decades in the making. 

[23andCounting]

52 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Not so sure about the 5A school, unless they just "settled" on a matchup to round out their schedule.  Sometimes, these 5A's should look out of state and see what's open....just sayin.  

Toledo isn't far. Love the idea of Fort Wayne vs Toledo in high school football. That would be the bomb. Fort to Port. Komets vs Walleye...............it just makes sense.

[Yuccaguy]

17 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Toledo isn't far. Love the idea of Fort Wayne vs Toledo in high school football. That would be the bomb. Fort to Port. Komets vs Walleye...............it just makes sense.

I am thinking that you know EXACTLY what I am referring to....  

[23andCounting]

3 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

I am thinking that you know EXACTLY what I am referring to....  

The east side of Fort Wayne is only 1 hour 15 minutes from the west side of Toledo. Seems like a no brainer to me. 

[HoopsCoach]

18 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

I just had a rural 3A school drop an intra-county school (2A) to schedule a FW powerhouse (5A) for next year in Week One.

I'm confused at the decision.  Though it makes sense for the rural 3A school, competition-wise. 

Not so sure about the 5A school, unless they just "settled" on a matchup to round out their schedule.  Sometimes, these 5A's should look out of state and see what's open....just sayin.  

West Noble?

[temptation]

Bumping…

I was wrong about Pike and for that I apologize.

Now, Avon on the other hand…