Temp’s Top 25 (After Week 7)

[temptation]

16 minutes ago, Rodney said:

Subject is dull and I will not participate, if you would like me to participate quit hollering about outliers and show me a graph of success over a decent time period of schools averaging 10-20% frl vs 20-30% frl vs 30-40% etc.

 

Screeching that this one outlier completely proves your point doesn't make it true.

 

If you were a potential great coach looking for a home in indiana would you call arsenal tech right away.

 

Im not even on the entire other side of your argument im just sick of seeing people act like its the biggest factor and being unwilling to prove it other than pointing at cases that are so far gone they may never recover

Don’t have that kinda time but when is the last time an IPS public school won a state title?

Hell, a sectional?

[23andCounting]

9 hours ago, temptation said:

Always?

Nick Saban winning at Frankfort?

Seems pretty simplistic.

I don't know about Saban, but I might put my money on Cignetti.

[23andCounting]

2 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

I don't know about Saban, but I might put my money on Cignetti.

@temptation

Kill me now? Saban was 12-11-1 in his first two years at Michigan State. If I'm going into battle, I'm taking Cignetti with me. 

[PDB26]

5 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

@temptation

Kill me now? Saban was 12-11-1 in his first two years at Michigan State. If I'm going into battle, I'm taking Cignetti with me. 

From sports-reference.

MSU SOS: ‘95, 6th; ‘96, 19th (6 ranked opponents)

IU SOS: ‘24, 55th; ‘25, 25th (4 ranked opponents counting Oregon—who knows, maybe Maryland and Penn State will be ranked in November, too)

IU SOS: ‘21, 1st; ‘22, 20th; ‘23, 18th (12 ranked opponents)

Full credit to Cignetti and staff for the results, but the guy has to win a put up or shut up-game if you’re going to hold him up with someone like Saban. Maybe it’s this weekend. 

[Footballking16]

14 hours ago, temptation said:

So why aren’t folks lining up to work at Arsenal Tech?  Solid enrollment, decent facilities, Indy population center, etc.

Why do they change coaches every 2-3 years?

Why have they had a 3 winning seasons this century?

Just can’t find their Eric Moore/Kevin Wright?

Again, it's one piece of the pie. What kind of support does IPS give Tech? What kind of feeder league do they have? Being in an impoverished area doesn't mean you can't have a good football program. I've given you dozens of examples of inner-city powerhouses who compete even at the national level in other major cities. Guessing Tech (and IPS) lack some of the vision those programs share or simply don't care. 

[23andCounting]

54 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Again, it's one piece of the pie. What kind of support does IPS give Tech? What kind of feeder league do they have? Being in an impoverished area doesn't mean you can't have a good football program. I've given you dozens of examples of inner-city powerhouses who compete even at the national level in other major cities. Guessing Tech (and IPS) lack some of the vision those programs share or simply don't care. 

Some of these national powers have so much talent it the halls it's hard not to fail. Do these powers have the kind of suburban competition that Warren Central and Ben Davis do? I'd put suburban Indy up against any suburban area in the country.

I think your "dozens of examples" is a pretty small piece of the overall pie. I think the private schools are the best indicator when it comes to defending SES. Now, to be fair, Indy suburbia has enrollment going for them as well as SES. One could argue that large enrollment schools such as BD and WC match up just fine with them. More evidence that enrollment is a HUGE factor. The only way to get to the bottom of SES vs inner city is to compare schools that are of the same enrollment. 

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Some of these national powers have so much talent it the halls it's hard not to fail. Do these powers have the kind of suburban competition that Warren Central and Ben Davis do? I'd put suburban Indy up against any suburban area in the country.

I think your "dozens of examples" is a pretty small piece of the overall pie. I think the private schools are the best indicator when it comes to defending SES. Now, to be fair, Indy suburbia has enrollment going for them as well as SES. One could argue that large enrollment schools such as BD and WC match up just fine with them. More evidence that enrollment is a HUGE factor. The only way to get to the bottom of SES vs inner city is to compare schools that are of the same enrollment. 

Detroit and Miami have several IPS equivalent schools in their inner-cities who all have good to phenomenal football programs. As does Houston, Los Angeles, St Louis, Chicago, etc. I'll assure you there's good suburban teams in those metro areas as well. 

IPS doesn't care, that's the problem and the root of the issue. 

 

[US31]

17 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I think Carmel has the ability to be the exception to the rule, with the amount of male athletes to pick from they should be able to field a team that competes on the regular for a state title. They have also shown that coaching does matter. 

Penn while has been a crap shoot since 2017 in football sees success in the other sports such as Baseball, minus last years debacle, and the Men's basketball teams have had recent success. Soccer this year is performing well. 

 

From an outsiders perspective, I feel like Penn has two issues now that they didn't have in the early 2000's and before...

• They no longer have a significant enrollment advantage over most of the other Indy metro schools.  Sure they are a top 10 sized school.....but most of the Indy metro schools are within a few hundred kids give or take.  And a few have outgrown Penn.
• The "local" competition up North isn't what it used to be....and it wasn't always great back then. (and the changes to their schedule this year are puzzling...no out of state powers like they used to schedule, no Indy schools?)

This is my outsider perspective, so the Penn faithul are welcome to call me out...I would fully defer.  Gees was an alltime great, but I don't feel like Yeoman and the rest of that staff just forgot how football worked?

[Coach Nowlin]

17 hours ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Geez took a crap Penn program and turned them into state contenders with little to no pure athletes. That is Dang good coaching.  

Wonder what would of been if he stayed at Rensselaer?   🙂

 

59 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Detroit and Miami have several IPS equivalent schools in their inner-cities who all have good to phenomenal football programs. As does Houston, Los Angeles, St Louis, Chicago, etc. I'll assure you there's good suburban teams in those metro areas as well. 

IPS doesn't care, that's the problem and the root of the issue. 

 

Who is the Chicago Public School stalwort ? 

According to Maxpreps, #64 ranked Morgan Park is the leader this year from Chicago Public School, their 2 losses were to start the year to Nazareth Academy by 4 tds and they lost to Downser Grove North week 1 in close game.  

Whitney Young is probably the most notable but theyu got bounced by 42-0 in round 2 last year, but then Chicago/Illinois lets teams then play on in some sub tournament amongst themselves, not really sure how that comes about.  

https://chicago.suntimes.com/super-25-football-rankings/2025/09/14/high-school-football-rankings-chicago-illinois-sun-times-michael-obrien

 

Also EAST ST LOUIS is an Illinois team, not a Missouri team 🙂

just in case ST. Louis was in reference to that in your message 

 

However I will defer to @Yuccaguy for all things St. Louis HS football, maybe I am missing something 

 

[Footballking16]

4 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Wonder what would of been if he stayed at Rensselaer?   🙂

 

Who is the Chicago Public School stalwort ? 

According to Maxpreps, #64 ranked Morgan Park is the leader this year from Chicago Public School, their 2 losses were to start the year to Nazareth Academy by 4 tds and they lost to Downser Grove North week 1 in close game.  

Whitney Young is probably the most notable but theyu got bounced by 42-0 in round 2 last year, but then Chicago/Illinois lets teams then play on in some sub tournament amongst themselves, not really sure how that comes about.  

https://chicago.suntimes.com/super-25-football-rankings/2025/09/14/high-school-football-rankings-chicago-illinois-sun-times-michael-obrien

 

Also EAST ST LOUIS is an Illinois team, not a Missouri team 🙂

just in case ST. Louis was in reference to that in your message 

 

However I will defer to @Yuccaguy for all things St. Louis HS football, maybe I am missing something 

 

I'm talking over a sustained period of time, not singular seasons. Whitney Young and Morgan Park both have solid football programs and would absolutely pistol whip Tech.

And I didn't mention anything about specific states. East St Louis is part of metro St Louis and have a national powerhouse football program despite being in an extremely impoverished area. 

[Indiana Fan]

35 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Wonder what would of been if he stayed at Rensselaer?   🙂

 

Who is the Chicago Public School stalwort ? 

According to Maxpreps, #64 ranked Morgan Park is the leader this year from Chicago Public School, their 2 losses were to start the year to Nazareth Academy by 4 tds and they lost to Downser Grove North week 1 in close game.  

Whitney Young is probably the most notable but theyu got bounced by 42-0 in round 2 last year, but then Chicago/Illinois lets teams then play on in some sub tournament amongst themselves, not really sure how that comes about.  

https://chicago.suntimes.com/super-25-football-rankings/2025/09/14/high-school-football-rankings-chicago-illinois-sun-times-michael-obrien

 

Also EAST ST LOUIS is an Illinois team, not a Missouri team 🙂

just in case ST. Louis was in reference to that in your message 

 

However I will defer to @Yuccaguy for all things St. Louis HS football, maybe I am missing something 

 

Geesman was at Rensselaer correct? Head coach or assistant? I know Rensselaer went through some great coaches a while back.

[PDB26]

1 hour ago, US31 said:

From an outsiders perspective, I feel like Penn has two issues now that they didn't have in the early 2000's and before...

• They no longer have a significant enrollment advantage over most of the other Indy metro schools.  Sure they are a top 10 sized school.....but most of the Indy metro schools are within a few hundred kids give or take.  And a few have outgrown Penn.
• The "local" competition up North isn't what it used to be....and it wasn't always great back then. (and the changes to their schedule this year are puzzling...no out of state powers like they used to schedule, no Indy schools?)

This is my outsider perspective, so the Penn faithul are welcome to call me out...I would fully defer.  Gees was an alltime great, but I don't feel like Yeoman and the rest of that staff just forgot how football worked?

I think you’re right, but the first issue’s importance is more or less dependent on the second. Historically, Penn has a fairly even history with the few suburban Indy programs it has faced—Penn has found itself pointed more toward the ground since they last locked up with Carmel in 2017, so it likely wouldn’t look so even today.

I’ve been on the second issue for nearly twenty years. Penn’s guys get so little exposure to challenging or even average competition throughout their time in the program. Even when the varsity team has games with great or elite programs, that benefit never extends down to the developmental levels of the high school program. This problem is exacerbated when you try to reload with as many 18 year olds as possible each season—which every coach would do given the chance.

 

[BDGiant93]

19 hours ago, temptation said:

So why aren’t folks lining up to work at Arsenal Tech?  Solid enrollment, decent facilities, Indy population center, etc.

Why do they change coaches every 2-3 years?

Why have they had a 3 winning seasons this century?

Just can’t find their Eric Moore/Kevin Wright?

Tech is currently having issues with their stadium...at least anecdotally.

Jerdson Gamble's a good guy. Loved working with him here at BD. I know the program he's trying to build there. I just hope he can build it before it wears him down.

[temptation]

I've got some errands to run in downtown Indy this weekend, maybe I'll stop by Washington and Tech and ask them why they "don't care" about football and tell em if they did, they'd win more.

22 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Tech is currently having issues with their stadium...at least anecdotally.

Jerdson Gamble's a good guy. Loved working with him here at BD. I know the program he's trying to build there. I just hope he can build it before it wears him down.

"Wears him down" is completely accurate but could you translate that for others on here?

Edited October 10, 2025 by temptation

[Bash Riprock]

11 hours ago, PDB26 said:

From sports-reference.

MSU SOS: ‘95, 6th; ‘96, 19th (6 ranked opponents)

IU SOS: ‘24, 55th; ‘25, 25th (4 ranked opponents counting Oregon—who knows, maybe Maryland and Penn State will be ranked in November, too)

IU SOS: ‘21, 1st; ‘22, 20th; ‘23, 18th (12 ranked opponents)

Full credit to Cignetti and staff for the results, but the guy has to win a put up or shut up-game if you’re going to hold him up with someone like Saban. Maybe it’s this weekend. 

Cig was an assistant for Saban. He would not put himself in Saban’s class. 
 

Give the guy a break though…it’s year 2 at Indiana and he’s set history there for success. Put up or shut up?  Give me a break. What’s he’s already done at IU is incredible and unlike a Lanning or Day, he didn’t inherit a Porsche. He’s worked his way up from Div 2 and won at every level. 

Edited October 10, 2025 by Bash Riprock

[Coach Nowlin]

2 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

Geesman was at Rensselaer correct? Head coach or assistant? I know Rensselaer went through some great coaches a while back.

Yes, he was an assistant under Bill Siderwicz, HC, mid 60s, then Dale Hummer (State Title HC at DeKalb) as well and Steve Brandenburg (long time assistant coach/teacher at RCHS) 

Pretty sure all of them in the Indiana Football HOF.   

[Yuccaguy]

4 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Wonder what would of been if he stayed at Rensselaer?   🙂

 

Who is the Chicago Public School stalwort ? 

According to Maxpreps, #64 ranked Morgan Park is the leader this year from Chicago Public School, their 2 losses were to start the year to Nazareth Academy by 4 tds and they lost to Downser Grove North week 1 in close game.  

Whitney Young is probably the most notable but theyu got bounced by 42-0 in round 2 last year, but then Chicago/Illinois lets teams then play on in some sub tournament amongst themselves, not really sure how that comes about.  

https://chicago.suntimes.com/super-25-football-rankings/2025/09/14/high-school-football-rankings-chicago-illinois-sun-times-michael-obrien

 

Also EAST ST LOUIS is an Illinois team, not a Missouri team 🙂

just in case ST. Louis was in reference to that in your message 

 

However I will defer to @Yuccaguy for all things St. Louis HS football, maybe I am missing something 

 

East Saint Louis, ILLINOIS  !!   

Ranked #2 in the Metro STL Area this week with a 3-2 Record.  My HS (Lutheran North) ranked #4 basically an IN 3A School playing UP due to the multiplier (1.5).   

[PDB26]

1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Cig was an assistant for Saban. He would not put himself in Saban’s class. 
 

Give the guy a break though…it’s year 2 at Indiana and he’s set history there for success. Put up or shut up?  Give me a break. What’s he’s already done at IU is incredible and unlike a Lanning or Day, he didn’t inherit a Porsche. He’s worked his way up from Div 2 and won at every level. 

Cignetti and his staff deserve credit for their successes. They've evaluated the portal well, which is easier said than done––looks at Bill B., among others––and they've won a bunch of games. The players deserve credit, too. Coaches like Cignetti and Brian Kelly should be commended for their ability to succeed at all levels. But, if @23andCounting is talking about taking Cignetti ahead of Saban, I said we're going to need a put up or shut up kind of win first. Again, it could very well be this weekend.

 

[23andCounting]

1 hour ago, PDB26 said:

Cignetti and his staff deserve credit for their successes. They've evaluated the portal well, which is easier said than done––looks at Bill B., among others––and they've won a bunch of games. The players deserve credit, too. Coaches like Cignetti and Brian Kelly should be commended for their ability to succeed at all levels. But, if @23andCounting is talking about taking Cignetti ahead of Saban, I said we're going to need a put up or shut up kind of win first. Again, it could very well be this weekend.

 

Saban had the best talent money could buy. But nonetheless, I've always considered him a Top 20 coach. I just don't know if it's 1 or 20. He barely had winning records his first four seasons at Michigan State. But credit to him for going 10-2 his fifth year and landing the LSU job. Cignetti gives you a lot of bang for your buck. When and who was the last coach who's made this kind of impact in a short period at a Power 5 program. Everyone wants to the be the "next Indiana." That's what NC was hoping for anyway, lol. 

Anyway. If I'm picking my head coach, I'm going with Cignetti. My number two choice would be Freeman. The state of Indiana is reeling right now with, arguably, the best two coaches in the country. 

[Bash Riprock]

4 hours ago, PDB26 said:

Cignetti and his staff deserve credit for their successes. They've evaluated the portal well, which is easier said than done––looks at Bill B., among others––and they've won a bunch of games. The players deserve credit, too. Coaches like Cignetti and Brian Kelly should be commended for their ability to succeed at all levels. But, if @23andCounting is talking about taking Cignetti ahead of Saban, I said we're going to need a put up or shut up kind of win first. Again, it could very well be this weekend.

 

I agree with your Saban comment 100%. Cignetti would as well. 

[temptation]

3 hours ago, 23andCounting said:

Saban had the best talent money could buy. But nonetheless, I've always considered him a Top 20 coach. I just don't know if it's 1 or 20. He barely had winning records his first four seasons at Michigan State. But credit to him for going 10-2 his fifth year and landing the LSU job. Cignetti gives you a lot of bang for your buck. When and who was the last coach who's made this kind of impact in a short period at a Power 5 program. Everyone wants to the be the "next Indiana." That's what NC was hoping for anyway, lol. 

Anyway. If I'm picking my head coach, I'm going with Cignetti. My number two choice would be Freeman. The state of Indiana is reeling right now with, arguably, the best two coaches in the country. 

You’re serious?

[23andCounting]

7 minutes ago, temptation said:

You’re serious?

Lol, which part?

[temptation]

11 minutes ago, 23andCounting said:

Lol, which part?

Two best in the country.

[23andCounting]

17 minutes ago, temptation said:

Two best in the country.

I did say "arguably." Go ahead and argue. Give me your top two. 

[Footballking16]

9 hours ago, temptation said:

I've got some errands to run in downtown Indy this weekend, maybe I'll stop by Washington and Tech and ask them why they "don't care" about football and tell em if they did, they'd win more.

"Wears him down" is completely accurate but could you translate that for others on here?

Name a move IPS has made in the last 10, 15, 20 years that’s been for the betterment of athletics?

I’m sure the coaches and players at Tech care and do what they can to the best of their abilities. None of that matters however if you have zero support at the top.