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Predicting the future of a program... key indicator


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6 hours ago, foxbat said:

I'm not sure aligning the youth program plays, etc. is a necessity for success.  I think it's much more about creating an environment that draws kids in and sustains kids playing over time.  In my 18 seasons of coaching youth ball at LCC, I officially retired this season, I have seen six head coaches and an interim coach.  Every time we'd get a new coach, we'd ask the question if there's anything they wanted us specifically to be teaching the kids in the program.  It always came down to safe procedures, understanding the proper way to do things, why we do things, and stoking their continued interest in the game; keeping them engaged until their bodies and skill caught up with their enthusiasm for the game.  Even had a couple of them specifically state that, given the nature of the game, there's no guarantee that what the high school was running when the player was in 3rd grade would be the same six years later ... or that the coach might be different too.  I think there is a move afoot now to do things like use similar nomenclature as the high school, but that still isn't the same as offensive schemes, defensive schemes, etc.  A colleague of mine that also coached in the youth league with me for many years broke down the idea of the successful feeder program ... at least based on how we did it at LCC.  All the teams, 3rd/4th, 5th/6th, junior high, and high school practice on the same stretch of land with the 3rd/4th closest to the school and moving successively out.  He told me that our main job was to keep those kids engaged/involve and learning the game so that they would move from here to there to there to there and eventually to there on Friday nights *gesturing from the 3rd/4th grade practice area to the 5th/6th grade practice area to the junior high practice area to the high school practice area to the varsity field*.  He said, however, the most important aspect of that was not the kids, but to also get their moms to move in that progression as well because we had to make sure that we were providing something that they were comfortable with regarding safety, fun, and ROI for the family time spent with the player playing.

First let me thank you for the years of voluntary work you put in.  But there is a huge benefit to having the youth program running the high school's formations, schemes, and plays.  

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18 minutes ago, Grover said:

First let me thank you for the years of voluntary work you put in.  But there is a huge benefit to having the youth program running the high school's formations, schemes, and plays.  

I'd venture a guess that might depend on the school, the coach, a combination of both, and possibly even the classification, etc. ... and that idea may very well be true by the time the kids get to 7th/8th grade where the benefit of running varsity schemes, etc. is more likely to pays off with results.  On the other hand, LCC's only had one period in the last two decades where a kid would have seen the same varsity coach that was there when they played 3rd/4th grade ball.  Again, there have been six coaches and an interim across 18 years. Coach O'Shea was at LCC for half that time. And he was one of the coaches that specifically told us that he liked what we were doing and that he'd rather us focus on the fundamentals rather than trying to match the varsity schemes and that he'd take care of the formations, scheme, and plays when he got them in high school.  Coach O'Shea's first state titles at LCC came from kids that had developed their skills with other coaches/schemes at the helm in the varsity ranks.  A kid that would have been in 5th grade the first year that Coach O'Shea coached at LCC would have been a freshman in Coach O'Shea's 4-peat team.

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8 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Can't wait to see Terry Lee's mug plastered on the side or on the back of Avon's or Plainfield's helmets for example.

 

 

Terry Lee no longer has a dealership in Avon.  He sold out to a Georgia conglomerate a couple of years ago.  He still owns a dealership in Noblesville and continues to help out with closed captioning on TV.  He's a great guy to work for as I worked part time,  about 2 1/2 years, for Terry's dealership in Avon.

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9 hours ago, foxbat said:

I'm not sure aligning the youth program plays, etc. is a necessity for success.  I think it's much more about creating an environment that draws kids in and sustains kids playing over time.  In my 18 seasons of coaching youth ball at LCC, I officially retired this season, I have seen six head coaches and an interim coach.  Every time we'd get a new coach, we'd ask the question if there's anything they wanted us specifically to be teaching the kids in the program.  It always came down to safe procedures, understanding the proper way to do things, why we do things, and stoking their continued interest in the game; keeping them engaged until their bodies and skill caught up with their enthusiasm for the game.  Even had a couple of them specifically state that, given the nature of the game, there's no guarantee that what the high school was running when the player was in 3rd grade would be the same six years later ... or that the coach might be different too.  I think there is a move afoot now to do things like use similar nomenclature as the high school, but that still isn't the same as offensive schemes, defensive schemes, etc.  A colleague of mine that also coached in the youth league with me for many years broke down the idea of the successful feeder program ... at least based on how we did it at LCC.  All the teams, 3rd/4th, 5th/6th, junior high, and high school practice on the same stretch of land with the 3rd/4th closest to the school and moving successively out.  He told me that our main job was to keep those kids engaged/involve and learning the game so that they would move from here to there to there to there and eventually to there on Friday nights *gesturing from the 3rd/4th grade practice area to the 5th/6th grade practice area to the junior high practice area to the high school practice area to the varsity field*.  He said, however, the most important aspect of that was not the kids, but to also get their moms to move in that progression as well because we had to make sure that we were providing something that they were comfortable with regarding safety, fun, and ROI for the family time spent with the player playing.

My wife and I were having a similar conversation this week. Our youngest son is playing tackle football for the first time this fall.  I can see that he and a few of his friends easily frustrate a coach.  If your main goal is to win the 3/4th grade league, it would be easy to run them all practice and never play them.  Luckily his coach understands his role is to teach basic fundamentals,  help them improve, and keep their enjoyment of the game.  Obviously the goal of the league is safety and skill development (are you ever going to get perfection from 3/4th graders?)

A varsity coach can teach you what they call inside zone and outside zone, but a bad elementary school coach can run a player off before he ever gets the chance. 

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18 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

My wife and I were having a similar conversation this week. Our youngest son is playing tackle football for the first time this fall.  I can see that he and a few of his friends easily frustrate a coach.  If your main goal is to win the 3/4th grade league, it would be easy to run them all practice and never play them.  Luckily his coach understands his role is to teach basic fundamentals,  help them improve, and keep their enjoyment of the game.  Obviously the goal of the league is safety and skill development (are you ever going to get perfection from 3/4th graders?)

A varsity coach can teach you what they call inside zone and outside zone, but a bad elementary school coach can run a player off before he ever gets the chance. 

So can junior high coaches

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12 hours ago, NEIFootballGuy said:

During their HS career, a student is allowed to obtain 8 PE credits. 2 of those are taken up by the required PE classes (mostly for freshman). Once they run out of credits, they can still take the course, however it is no longer for a grade.

When state started handing out PE credits for sports completed and ECA like Band, Color Guard, the amount of PE classes offered also has dwindled.  

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8 hours ago, foxbat said:

I'd venture a guess that might depend on the school, the coach, a combination of both, and possibly even the classification, etc. ... and that idea may very well be true by the time the kids get to 7th/8th grade where the benefit of running varsity schemes, etc. is more likely to pays off with results.  On the other hand, LCC's only had one period in the last two decades where a kid would have seen the same varsity coach that was there when they played 3rd/4th grade ball.  Again, there have been six coaches and an interim across 18 years. Coach O'Shea was at LCC for half that time. And he was one of the coaches that specifically told us that he liked what we were doing and that he'd rather us focus on the fundamentals rather than trying to match the varsity schemes and that he'd take care of the formations, scheme, and plays when he got them in high school.  Coach O'Shea's first state titles at LCC came from kids that had developed their skills with other coaches/schemes at the helm in the varsity ranks.  A kid that would have been in 5th grade the first year that Coach O'Shea coached at LCC would have been a freshman in Coach O'Shea's 4-peat team.

It isn’t an either/or scenario. We teach fundamentals and run our high school’s schemes in our youth program. I think it’s worked fairly well. 

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17 hours ago, Donnie Baker said:

So can junior high coaches

junior high is the key imo.  U have to strike a balance.  U have to maintain numbers (as best u can), continue to teach, have fun AND u have to get some Wins.  I’ve seen MS programs with 75 kids out.  EVERYONE got to play.... ALOT.  Got thumped every week.  Athletes got sick of it and quit playing... the rest didn’t stick with it either cause all the athletes quit.  took 5 years to rebuild.

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