NWI Semi-States

[WestfieldRocks]

1 hour ago, temptation said:

I'll gladly take that bet.  DT was correct in stating that the HCC was a bit disappointing this season and took a step back but simple socioeconomics and the upgraded commitment that HCC schools are putting into football is astounding.  Common sense suggests that someone outside of the MIC will get one soon.  Maybe later rather than sooner, but if you are giving me until 2030, I will take that bet.

That someone could be Westfield. This year, playing the same schedule as the varsity, and yes, that includes Cathedral, Westfield's JV and freshmen teams both went undefeated. Their eight grade team (not sure of their schedule) also went undefeated. 

[scarab527]

3 minutes ago, temptation said:

5A was Indiana's largest class prior so I went from 2010-2019 which included both Fishers and Lawrence Central (pre-MIC) winning titles.

Fair. Still, those 2 titles were at the very beginning of the decade. In the years that have followed, in my opinion, the gap between the MIC and everyone else has grown. This isn’t a knock on those other teams, the HCC has proven to be a great conference too. But the MIC has proven itself to be on a whole ‘nother level.  

[temptation]

14 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

That someone could be Westfield. This year, playing the same schedule as the varsity, and yes, that includes Cathedral, Westfield's JV and freshmen teams both went undefeated. Their eight grade team (not sure of their schedule) also went undefeated. 

Westfield is also experiencing faster growth than any corporation in the metro area.

They'll be 3000+ before you know it.

Edited November 17, 2020 by temptation

[southend]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:15 PM, Yuccaguy said:

Thanks.  We did our best.

No issues on the field.....just one guy losing his mind (in the stands) and being REALLY loud.  

Also, no disrespect to Marion...but we were honestly shocked that EN didn't turn their early momentum in the 2nd half into a lead.  

I am NOW and always have been impressed with Coach (Luke) Amstutz.  He knows his stuff....Did it at Carroll (assistant), absolutely did it at Angola!  And is ALWAYS doing it at EN..

As for the Giants, good luck this week at Hobart.  Always a great locale to play at.  Should be a great game also!  

 

Luke Amstutz is a real asset to indiana football. 

[Tommy]

Back to back semi-state wins for Valpo would guarantee an automatic bump up to class 6A for 2021-2022 under the IHSAA success factor rule.

[temptation]

15 hours ago, scarab527 said:

Fair. Still, those 2 titles were at the very beginning of the decade. In the years that have followed, in my opinion, the gap between the MIC and everyone else has grown. This isn’t a knock on those other teams, the HCC has proven to be a great conference too. But the MIC has proven itself to be on a whole ‘nother level.  

I disagree.  The HCC has started to win its fair share of head to head battles (all be it in the regular season) with MIC schools and the Indy suburbs are beginning to develop next level players at a higher rate than the Marion County schools (the MIC should thank the lord for CG)..

I know that’s a sketchy comparison as Carmel and CG are MIC schools by name only.  Their socioeconomics/geography align (DT will tee off on this) with HCC schools more so than their MIC brethren.

They just can’t get over the hump in November for some reason.  I don’t get it.

Edited November 18, 2020 by temptation

[temptation]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

I disagree.  The HCC has started to win its fair share of head to head battles (all be it in the regular season) with MIC schools and the Indy suburbs are beginning to develop next level players at a higher rate than the Marion County schools (the MIC should thank the lord for CG)..

I know that’s a sketchy comparison as Carmel and CG are MIC schools by name only.  Their socioeconomics/geography align (DT will tee off on this) with HCC schools more so than their MIC brethren.

They just can’t get over the hump in November for some reason.  I don’t get it.

The depth of the MIC is their biggest advantage.  In 2020 alone, I don’t  think it’s far fetched to say that the MIC boasted 7 of the top 15 teams in the state.  Hell, 0-10 LC played Lafayette Jeff fairly close.

The bottom of the HCC needs some work.

I think Noblesville at least has optimism for a bright future...FC is in no man’s land.

[Ballhawk]

2 hours ago, temptation said:

They just can’t get over the hump in November for some reason.  I don’t get it.

The most successful MIC schools as far as the tourney goes would be Ben Davis, Warren Central, Carmel & Center Grove.  To me, the one thing these schools do is grind it out on the ground, throw just a little and play tough defense.  

I see the other MIC teams and the HCC teams and I see spread with very little defense.  Not a good recipe come November.  When Avon or Brownsburg have an off night throwing, they are pretty much screwed.

[oldunclemark]

5 hours ago, Tommy said:

Back to back semi-state wins for Valpo would guarantee an automatic bump up to class 6A for 2021-2022 under the IHSAA success factor rule.

I heard that Valparaiso dropped from 6A to 5A because if the Elkhart consolidation...which turned two smaller schools into 1 6A.

Valpo was 6A three years ago

[oldunclemark]

On 11/16/2020 at 1:21 PM, Staxawax said:

If the Homestead beatdown didn't convince you, then you'll find out Friday. Then CG will beat down on Westfield.

Getting back to the game..Stax..

Merrillville isnt going to play Westfield the way Homestead did.  Homestead spread out 4 or 5 receivers and threw a ton. I think Westfield got 8 possessions in the first half.

That wont happen this Friday

Merrillville is going to run their big halfback 20 times and throw off of that...

Westfields offensive line looks strong and mobile but Homestead was in a 3-man rush too many times. 

 

This game is no mismatch

[DE]

For whatever reason, I keep coming back to this.

This entails 2 region teams and 1 Indy team.

Merrillville, Hobart and Ben Davis will all be playing for state titles.

[Prospect]

2 minutes ago, DE said:

For whatever reason, I keep coming back to this.

This entails 2 region teams and 1 Indy team.

Merrillville, Hobart and Ben Davis will all be playing for state titles.

Merrillville will have to play a perfect game against Westfield. They do have a chance to win, but watching Westfield dismantle Homestead just shows that Indy is still a cut above FW 6A schools and possibly still Merrillville. Should hopefully be one of the better games Friday.

Hobart's defense was legit last year when we watched them play EN. You are not going to lose too many games forcing 5 turnovers. They will match up well with Marion and should take that game if they can limit the big plays.

Ben Davis is interesting. I remember reading awhile back someone predicted that the Giants would upset CG in the semi state. Will it happen? Probably not, but this year has been nothing less than crazy.

[DE]

6 minutes ago, Prospect said:

Merrillville will have to play a perfect game against Westfield. They do have a chance to win, but watching Westfield dismantle Homestead just shows that Indy is still a cut above FW 6A schools and possibly still Merrillville. Should hopefully be one of the better games Friday.

Hobart's defense was legit last year when we watched them play EN. You are not going to lose too many games forcing 5 turnovers. They will match up well with Marion and should take that game if they can limit the big plays.

Ben Davis is interesting. I remember reading awhile back someone predicted that the Giants would upset CG in the semi state. Will it happen? Probably not, but this year has been nothing less than crazy.

As I said, for whatever reason...maybe it's because they all share purple as a school color.  

 

[temptation]

2 hours ago, Ballhawk said:

The most successful MIC schools as far as the tourney goes would be Ben Davis, Warren Central, Carmel & Center Grove.  To me, the one thing these schools do is grind it out on the ground, throw just a little and play tough defense.  

I see the other MIC teams and the HCC teams and I see spread with very little defense.  Not a good recipe come November.  When Avon or Brownsburg have an off night throwing, they are pretty much screwed.

Carmel and Ben Davis simply have an enormous numbers advantage over everyone else.  (You could throw Warren in there too.). Taking nothing away from their programs or coaching staffs but facts are facts.

Warren and CG have identifies.  Warren’s has shifted by necessity but they’ve gone from a dominant offense that tries to outscore you every week in the 2000’s, to a defense that is going to challenge you for every yard.

CG’s has been discussed multiple times on here.  They have a culture and identity in place from the ground level (youth leagues) up.  They are fundamentally sound annually and will run their system to a T but also adapt it to fit their personnel.

I agree that the spread is often a recipe for failure come tournament time and that could be the case but you are still asking schools in the 2500-3000 range to compete with those in the 4000-5000 range which is a tall order.

Center Grove has figured out a way to navigate that mountain and perhaps Westfield is next.

[WestfieldRocks]

3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Getting back to the game..Stax..

Merrillville isnt going to play Westfield the way Homestead did.  Homestead spread out 4 or 5 receivers and threw a ton. I think Westfield got 8 possessions in the first half.

That wont happen this Friday

Merrillville is going to run their big halfback 20 times and throw off of that...

Westfields offensive line looks strong and mobile but Homestead was in a 3-man rush too many times. 

 

This game is no mismatch

Actually Westfield had 5 possessions in the first half. They scored TDs on four of them, and had a poor snap on a short field goal attempt causing a miss on the other possession. They then scored on their first 2 possessions of the second half, then called off the dogs the remainder of the game.

[scarab527]

9 hours ago, temptation said:

I disagree.  The HCC has started to win its fair share of head to head battles (all be it in the regular season) with MIC schools and the Indy suburbs are beginning to develop next level players at a higher rate than the Marion County schools (the MIC should thank the lord for CG)..

I know that’s a sketchy comparison as Carmel and CG are MIC schools by name only.  Their socioeconomics/geography align (DT will tee off on this) with HCC schools more so than their MIC brethren.

They just can’t get over the hump in November for some reason.  I don’t get it.

I agree with everything you said here. The best teams in the HCC have shown they can beat teams in the MIC, even the Big 4, in the regular season. But as you said, they haven’t shown they can beat the best team in the MIC in the playoffs yet. Avon almost did it in 2015, but they came up short. The HCC has all the factors for future success, but as you said, so do Carmel and CG. I don’t see Warren Central and Ben Davis going away for a long time either. I probably wouldn’t take the bet that the MIC will win every 6A title this decade either. But if you asked me to bet in 2013 that in 2020, every 6A title so far would’ve been won by one of the Big 4, I probably wouldn’t have taken that bet either. 

[temptation]

1 hour ago, scarab527 said:

I agree with everything you said here. The best teams in the HCC have shown they can beat teams in the MIC, even the Big 4, in the regular season. But as you said, they haven’t shown they can beat the best team in the MIC in the playoffs yet. Avon almost did it in 2015, but they came up short. The HCC has all the factors for future success, but as you said, so do Carmel and CG. I don’t see Warren Central and Ben Davis going away for a long time either. I probably wouldn’t take the bet that the MIC will win every 6A title this decade either. But if you asked me to bet in 2013 that in 2020, every 6A title so far would’ve been won by one of the Big 4, I probably wouldn’t have taken that bet either. 

Good point.  I just see much more upside in the HCC schools at this point.  
 

That being said, I’d be pretty damn depressed if I were Brownsburg and Lawrence North...probably their most talented teams in school history (yes I’m aware Brownsburg won a title in the 1980s) and zip to show for it.  If not now, then when?

Edited November 18, 2020 by temptation

[oldunclemark]

3 hours ago, WestfieldRocks said:

Actually Westfield had 5 possessions in the first half. They scored TDs on four of them, and had a poor snap on a short field goal attempt causing a miss on the other possession. They then scored on their first 2 possessions of the second half, then called off the dogs the remainder of the game.

Homestead didn't shorten the game........they lengthened it...apparently No. 26 was injured...

.............only ran 2 times.......//.............the Homestead QB is a prolific passer, right.....36 TDs......

 

Westfield was easily the better team but Merrillville isn't going to play them that way.

 

[oldunclemark]

I don't put much weight on conference's overall post-season results.

Two Duneland Athletic Conference teams could reach the state finals this month. 

But it is debatable if the DAC is better than it was 10-15 years ago.... So what's changed?

 

When there was no Class 6A, all DAC teams were Class 5A and the DAC had only one route to the state finals and that route went through Penn.

Now that there is Class 5A and Class 6A, (and that Penn has declined a bit), the DAC can get two teams to the semistate almost every year (Michigan City and LaPorte have made it for the first time ever recently).

The post-season league wide results LOOK better but the league isnt necessarily better as a whole.

 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

But it is debatable if the DAC is better than it was 10-15 years ago.

No, it’s not.

[scarab527]

15 minutes ago, Bobref said:

No, it’s not.

Why do you say that? I’d say it’s at least as good as it was then. 

[Bobref]

3 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Why do you say that? I’d say it’s at least as good as it was then. 

“Good” is somewhat ambiguous. My opinion is based on a comparison of Duneland teams top to bottom relative to other conferences. It’s not really possible to say whether the quality of play is as good as it was then. What I feel confident in saying is that the overall quality of play in the conference has declined relative to the quality of play in other conferences.

[oldunclemark]

28 minutes ago, Bobref said:

No, it’s not.

Its debatable, Bob, because almost everything is.........but I dont think the DAC is as good...

[scarab527]

13 minutes ago, Bobref said:

“Good” is somewhat ambiguous. My opinion is based on a comparison of Duneland teams top to bottom relative to other conferences. It’s not really possible to say whether the quality of play is as good as it was then. What I feel confident in saying is that the overall quality of play in the conference has declined relative to the quality of play in other conferences.

Which conferences are you relating to them? 

[oldunclemark]

6 minutes ago, Bobref said:

“Good” is somewhat ambiguous. My opinion is based on a comparison of Duneland teams top to bottom relative to other conferences. It’s not really possible to say whether the quality of play is as good as it was then. What I feel confident in saying is that the overall quality of play in the conference has declined relative to the quality of play in other conferences.

That may or may not be but it's not what I'm talking about at all. Its not my point. 

I feel like the 'overall quality' of the Duneland Athletic Conference ( a phrase just as ambiguous as 'good', I know) has declined compared to the DAC in 2000  or 2004 or 2008 .

That was by baseline thought. 

But the DAC will get more teams downstate now due to a change in the playoff structure..

...........so judging conference by their post-season records can be (and is in the DAC ) misleading.