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Duneland Should Consider Expansion to 12 Schools in Quest for Football Excellence


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We discussed this a few months back, and years with Penn, I believe they have always had an open invitation to the conference, but now with Elkhart only having one school, it might be worth another look for Penn to join and the DAC offer Elkhart. Otherwise I agree with some of the comments on what is the incentive for those two to join. The school administration, not just the AD's, are thinking of all sports for this discussion and except for football, Elkhart and Penn are playing the DAC in all sports except for gymnastics, don't know if Penn has it, but I believe Elkhart did. 

Lake Central and Crown Point just need to get better, Crown Point has demonstrated they are all in, starting with the superintendent and community on down, Lake Central not so much. Both schools do great in girl sports for what it's worth. While Valpo and Merrillville which are much smaller dominate those two, heck even MC which is way smaller?

 

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On 5/11/2021 at 8:55 PM, Footballking16 said:

If Penn and Elkhart stay away from the DAC (not so sure they’re even considering it despite an ongoing a thread) a new conference of:

Penn

Elkhart

Warsaw

Snider

Homestead

Carroll

Dwenger??

makes a ton of sense. Would instantly become the premier big class conference in Northern Indiana.

If it were a notre dame special (football only) this could be solid n the programs mentioned all travel well..not sure how other conferences share revenue..I'm sure they'd hate to lose the gate these teams garner.

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7 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Gotta go back to scheduling the MIC then. 

Agree.  That is one element

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Hammond Schools make no sense for DAC membership. Wouldn’t be able to field required teams and add basically nothing to the conference except more dead weight. Hammond Central had less than 10 kids at their recent football call out meeting. Morton also doesn’t want to leave their current conference because they believe they’re a “football powerhouse” in it (how a team can consider themselves to be a “powerhouse” with one regional title in their school’s history is anyone’s guess). Penn and Elkhart make a lot of sense though. 

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Being on the lower end of 6A, enrollment wise, isn't Warsaw sort of in purgatory. Do they have the size, strength and athleticism coming up that can get them past the DAC, NIC, or SAC?

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31 minutes ago, DACNUT said:

Being on the lower end of 6A, enrollment wise, isn't Warsaw sort of in purgatory. Do they have the size, strength and athleticism coming up that can get them past the DAC, NIC, or SAC?

That I do not know, but they have the coach, the community buy in, and the system to make consistent runs.

Who better else to make inroads against PENN in Northern 6A FB, than the man who lead the Cavemen for many years?

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16 hours ago, DACNUT said:

Being on the lower end of 6A, enrollment wise, isn't Warsaw sort of in purgatory. Do they have the size, strength and athleticism coming up that can get them past the DAC, NIC, or SAC?

I wouldn't say they are in purgatory with regard to the north, just the Central Indiana behemoths. With an enrollment of 2100 and a pretty good coach, there is no reason they shouldn't be a major player north of Indy. A 6A championship may not be very realistic, but they could potentially become one of the better 'pound for pound' teams in the state. 

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

I wouldn't say they are in purgatory with regard to the north, just the Central Indiana behemoths. With an enrollment of 2100 and a pretty good coach, there is no reason they shouldn't be a major player north of Indy. A 6A championship may not be very realistic, but they could potentially become one of the better 'pound for pound' teams in the state. 

I heard an urban legend that Penn at one point was contacted by Ben Davis and a handful of others about forming a conference like the MIC before the MIC. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard it.

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19 hours ago, DACNUT said:

Being on the lower end of 6A, enrollment wise, isn't Warsaw sort of in purgatory. Do they have the size, strength and athleticism coming up that can get them past the DAC, NIC, or SAC?

I mean they defeated Penn for a sectional championship in 2019 and competed well against Merrillville in the regional game, and last year beat Carroll in the first round of the tournament and hung with Homestead in the sectional championship game.

In regards to coming up - I think this year the Tigers might be down some and the following year could be rough too, but this year's freshman team and BOTH middle school teams had successful years and to the best of my knowledge, all levels of football being played in Warsaw are playing Bart Ball on offense. Would be great to see the Tigers be at least competitive in the games against Warren Central in a few years.

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1 hour ago, BDGiant93 said:

I heard an urban legend that Penn at one point was contacted by Ben Davis and a handful of others about forming a conference like the MIC before the MIC. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've heard it.

That wouldn't surprise me. But back then, it didn't seem to matter what competition Penn faced. Chris Geesman found his way to five state championships despite playing a weak schedule. In all fairness though, Central Indiana wasn't back then what it is today. Two or three good teams for sure. But now it's ten or eleven. 

By and large, unfortunately many on here still have no clue what that means, a strong schedule goes a long way in building a program. As does enrollment. Penn was an exception to the rule when it came to playing a tough schedule. Center Grove has proven to be an exception to the rule when it comes to enrollment..............or not. Would Center Grove teams of today match up well with WC and BD teams of the past? I've said it before........ *I still don't think 6A is as strong as it has been in the past (the 90's), which allows a school like CG with an enrollment of 2500 to sneak in and get a few rings. 

*Just an opinion. 

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On 5/14/2021 at 1:17 PM, BDGiant93 said:

I think they would.

It depends on what we are considering the “Center Grove teams of today” in my opinion.

Are we accepting that sendIng over a half dozen guys to D1 schools is the new norm at Center Grove?  Or is that an anomaly?

Those BD teams in the 90s and Warren teams in the 2000s were loaded just like CG is now but they also had years in which they were not “as rich” with D1 talent.

The 2020-21 Trojans could play with anybody but I still think that most of CG’s teams still pale in comparison to the BD/Warren teams mentioned above.

Just my opinion.

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On 5/16/2021 at 8:57 AM, temptation said:

It depends on what we are considering the “Center Grove teams of today” in my opinion.

Are we accepting that sendIng over a half dozen guys to D1 schools is the new norm at Center Grove?  Or is that an anomaly?

Those BD teams in the 90s and Warren teams in the 2000s were loaded just like CG is now but they also had years in which they were not “as rich” with D1 talent.

The 2020-21 Trojans could play with anybody but I still think that most of CG’s teams still pale in comparison to the BD/Warren teams mentioned above.

Just my opinion.

My gold standards are '06 Warren Central and '91 Ben Davis. Those two teams were exceptional. I don't know if we've seen the likes of them since or will see them again.

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24 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

My gold standards are '06 Warren Central and '91 Ben Davis. Those two teams were exceptional. I don't know if we've seen the likes of them since or will see them again.

Say what you want about last years CG team but I think they belong in that conversation. Can't really comment on the 91 BD teams as I was in diapers then, but the 2020 CG team is up there with the 06 Warren team.

2020 CG team

Average win 40-7

5 shutouts

Never gave up more than 14 points

2006 Warren

Average win 48-8

5 shutouts

That Warren team definitely had more D1 talent but would argue Center Grove played a much tougher schedule. MIC in 06 still had the Terre Haute teams and North Central wasn't what they were today. It's debatable because that Warren Central team was incredible but that CG team was as well. 

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Just now, Footballking16 said:

Say what you want about last years CG team but I think they belong in that conversation. Can't really comment on the 91 BD teams as I was in diapers then, but the 2020 CG team is up there with the 06 Warren team.

2020 CG team

Average win 40-7

5 shutouts

Never gave up more than 14 points

2006 Warren

Average win 48-8

5 shutouts

That Warren team definitely had more D1 talent but would argue Center Grove played a much tougher schedule. MIC in 06 still had the Terre Haute teams and North Central wasn't what they were today. It's debatable because that Warren Central team was incredible but that CG team was as well. 

That 06 Warren team was the most physically dominant team I've ever seen.

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15 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

That 06 Warren team was the most physically dominant team I've ever seen.

Hard to argue that, but that CG defense is no joke either. Never gave up more than 14 points and did it playing arguably a harder schedule than the 06 Warren team. I think that CG team belongs in the conversation. 

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Just now, Footballking16 said:

Hard to argue that, but that CG defense is no joke either. Never gave up more than 14 points and did it playing arguably a harder schedule than the 06 Warren team. I think that CG team belongs in the conversation. 

I believe that Warren team had multiple 300 pounders up front. They wasted BD (ranked #2) 76-7 that year. Granted, BD may have been overrated to start the year, but they beat us up so bad in that game, BD had to start its fourth-string QB vs. TH North the next week.

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21 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

I believe that Warren team had multiple 300 pounders up front. They wasted BD (ranked #2) 76-7 that year. Granted, BD may have been overrated to start the year, but they beat us up so bad in that game, BD had to start its fourth-string QB vs. TH North the next week.

CG had a B10 defensive end in Austin Booker and a DT in Curry who can go wherever he wants. I see Schott is getting B10 offers as well. May not have been as big as Warren but guessing the talent disparity wasn't all that far off.  

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Posted (edited)

No disrespect intended for Center Grove, but I feel like teams knew the game was going to be a no contest when they lined up across from 2006 Warren/2017 BD (I’m also too young to have seen 1991 BD in person).

CG let teams (LN/Cathedral) hang around last season.  The 2006 Warren/2017 BD squads were coasting after halftime.

The schedule strength argument is a good one though.  CG definitely has the advantage there for the reasons mentioned.

Edited by temptation
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1 hour ago, temptation said:

No disrespect intended for Center Grove, but I feel like teams knew the game was going to be a no contest when they lined up across from 2006 Warren/2017 BD (I’m also too young to have seen 1991 BD in person).

CG let teams (LN/Cathedral) hang around last season.  The 2006 Warren/2017 BD squads were coasting after halftime.

The schedule strength argument is a good one though.  CG definitely has the advantage there for the reasons mentioned.

LOL.

That “Cathedral team” finished top 20 in the country by multiple publications. Blew out the 6A runner-up. Blew out the 3A champion. Beat the Ohio big school champion. Beat the Ohio D2 runner-up. And came within about 63 seconds of replacing Center Grove in this conversation.

Last years Cathedral team was better than any team the 06 Warren team by a considerable margin. 

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2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

LOL.

That “Cathedral team” finished top 20 in the country by multiple publications. Blew out the 6A runner-up. Blew out the 3A champion. Beat the Ohio big school champion. Beat the Ohio D2 runner-up. And came within about 63 seconds of replacing Center Grove in this conversation.

Last years Cathedral team was better than any team the 06 Warren team by a considerable margin. 

And???? 

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2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

LOL.

That “Cathedral team” finished top 20 in the country by multiple publications. Blew out the 6A runner-up. Blew out the 3A champion. Beat the Ohio big school champion. Beat the Ohio D2 runner-up. And came within about 63 seconds of replacing Center Grove in this conversation.

Last years Cathedral team was better than any team the 06 Warren team by a considerable margin. 

You have to take national rankings with a grain of salt. Carmel was #4 in the country in 1986 and they weren't even the best team in the state. 

I've seen a lot of football. Warren Central from from 2003 to 2006 was just a different beast. Four state championships in a row. I'd put the Snider 2004 team up against any team from any era. They just happened to run into the most dominant four year span this state has ever seen. 

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