Time for the "Rubber to Hit the Road"....

[temptation]

21 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

What Brian Flores’s Lawsuit Means: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/what-brian-floress-lawsuit-means/

Pretty simple, really. 

4 times this week.

"Don't let facts get in the way of a good story."

[DE]

14 minutes ago, temptation said:

4 times this week.

"Don't let facts get in the way of a good story."

Going for a record.

[temptation]

1 hour ago, DE said:

Going for a record.

Yep, seems so.

[Bash Riprock]

My discussion is not about racial disparity with head coach hiring, but directed toward Brian Flores as a leader.  As the Dolphins were improving over the past couple of years, I asked a good friend who is a big Fins fan if he was excited about the future.  His response was he was concerned about what was going on internally.  I wasn't sure what he meant, so I asked for specifics.  He then told me that the rumor was that Flores was considered "toxic" within the organization.  I wasn't sure what he meant, but I left it.  This was a couple of months ago...definitely prior to his separation from the Dolphins.

I then read this opinion....and it does have me scratching my head.  Without getting into the alleged racism, is it possible that Flores needs to improve and mature as a leader?  In other words, does he also need to look at himself internally and see where he can improve his leadership style?  

I am in no way shape or form trying to diminish a bigger issue....just thinking about Flores individually.  Is there some potential that he rubs people the wrong way?

Now, if they prove that Miami was tanking games deliberately, then there is zero doubt the owner and management team lacks ethics and should be dealt with harshly.  

Go tons of respect for you Yuccaguy....we fellow Lutherans have to stick together!!  

https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2022-02-10-doug-gottlieb-toxic-brian-flores-looks-unlikeable-after-lovie-smith-burn/

This is where Brian Flores DOESN’T GET IT, and didn’t get it when he got fired in Miami. I hear people all the time are like ‘Well, he’s a great coach’, no one is saying that he's not, but the ‘coaching’ is only a portion of being a head coach. You have to manage ‘up’ [with the front office] and manage ‘down’ [with the players], and he couldn’t manage up. The facts are different from the feelings, they just are, and here are the facts: the general manager in Miami, the assistant general manager, the director of player personnel – they are ALL Black men. They wanted him GONE. It was an ‘us’ or ‘him’, and the owner was like ‘I’m going to side with these guys.’ When I said Flores needed to be more contrite, anyone who has ever lost a job or lost an opportunity – at some point you just got to go ‘ya know, sometimes it actually IS me.’ It’s ME and the way I handled myself. He may have been misperceived, it’s totally reasonable to go like ‘ya know, I probably came across as a little brash, a little harsh, it was my first job, I had only been in New England, I only watched Bill Belichick and how he handled things…’ His story of the disconnect with non-Patriot people is the same story we saw in Detroit [Matt Patricia], the same story we’ve seen with Charlie Weis, the same story we saw with Eric Mangini; you go through all the Patriots’ assistants it’s all the same thing, and he’s the only one going ‘nah, it wasn’t me, it was them.’ 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Bash Riprock

[temptation]

59 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

My discussion is not about racial disparity with head coach hiring, but directed toward Brian Flores as a leader.  As the Dolphins were improving over the past couple of years, I asked a good friend who is a big Fins fan if he was excited about the future.  His response was he was concerned about what was going on internally.  I wasn't sure what he meant, so I asked for specifics.  He then told me that the rumor was that Flores was considered "toxic" within the organization.  I wasn't sure what he meant, but I left it.  This was a couple of months ago...definitely prior to his separation from the Dolphins.

I then read this opinion....and it does have me scratching my head.  Without getting into the alleged racism, is it possible that Flores needs to improve and mature as a leader?  In other words, does he also need to look at himself internally and see where he can improve his leadership style?  

I am in no way shape or form trying to diminish a bigger issue....just thinking about Flores individually.  Is there some potential that he rubs people the wrong way?

Now, if they prove that Miami was tanking games deliberately, then there is zero doubt the owner and management team lacks ethics and should be dealt with harshly.  

Go tons of respect for you Yuccaguy....we fellow Lutherans have to stick together!!  

https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/content/2022-02-10-doug-gottlieb-toxic-brian-flores-looks-unlikeable-after-lovie-smith-burn/

This is where Brian Flores DOESN’T GET IT, and didn’t get it when he got fired in Miami. I hear people all the time are like ‘Well, he’s a great coach’, no one is saying that he's not, but the ‘coaching’ is only a portion of being a head coach. You have to manage ‘up’ [with the front office] and manage ‘down’ [with the players], and he couldn’t manage up. The facts are different from the feelings, they just are, and here are the facts: the general manager in Miami, the assistant general manager, the director of player personnel – they are ALL Black men. They wanted him GONE. It was an ‘us’ or ‘him’, and the owner was like ‘I’m going to side with these guys.’ When I said Flores needed to be more contrite, anyone who has ever lost a job or lost an opportunity – at some point you just got to go ‘ya know, sometimes it actually IS me.’ It’s ME and the way I handled myself. He may have been misperceived, it’s totally reasonable to go like ‘ya know, I probably came across as a little brash, a little harsh, it was my first job, I had only been in New England, I only watched Bill Belichick and how he handled things…’ His story of the disconnect with non-Patriot people is the same story we saw in Detroit [Matt Patricia], the same story we’ve seen with Charlie Weis, the same story we saw with Eric Mangini; you go through all the Patriots’ assistants it’s all the same thing, and he’s the only one going ‘nah, it wasn’t me, it was them.’ 

No.  Absolutely not.  Doesn’t fit the victim narrative.  As a matter of fact, I’m offended you used the word “toxic” as most toxic waste is BLACK.

How dare you?

[Bobref]

On 2/6/2022 at 12:58 PM, Bobref said:

I wonder if the players (75% of whom are black) realize that they have an unbelievable opportunity here. They could absolutely use this issue to change the balance of power in the NFL to more like the NBA.

 

On 2/6/2022 at 1:41 PM, BTF said:

58%

 

On 2/6/2022 at 2:20 PM, temptation said:

LOL

 

74%

[temptation]

7 minutes ago, Bobref said:

 

 

 

74%

So you are saying we need more white players to balance it out?

 

[Bobref]

52 minutes ago, temptation said:

So you are saying we need more white players to balance it out?

 

No, I’m saying my original statement of 75% was pretty accurate.

[Yuccaguy]

All I am saying with this topic, is simple....

People need to have an EQUAL opportunity to advance beyond that of the playing field once they become or aspire to higher more impactful jobs within the system that exists.  

I cannot see any argument that can support the system that exists as it does now.  

The "network" of NOT hiring those that "resemble" the likes that are like the ownership in place is plainly obvious.  Even Stevie Wonder could see that.....

There is always an excuse for NOT hiring those that fall OUTSIDE of the traditional method of elevation...ie.  Offensive/Defensive Coordinators of color...  But then they are skipped over when an HC is hired who has NO history of either  (ex. Joe Judge).  

The NFL in all its' recent iterations, has gone from "the flag" and a def-facto Americanism by black-balling Colin Kaepernick, to embracing an anti-racist attitude (ie. painting slogans on the field/having slogan on the helmets) only to be called out in their TRUE hiring practices and inability to foment a an "American hope" of promoting individuals by the content of their character rather than their color of their skin.    That is NOT fair, nor will it be ever accepted in these days!  

What would be the argument if the NHL hired a % of minorities that FAR exceed the number of minorities within their league...say 75% of Head Coaches?  I dare say, that there would be an outcry that would wonder, Why? 

What is the difference in the NFL.....Tradition? 

Or just plain and simple, Comfortability with things as they are?  Those not like us, are not within the purview of being seen as having the ability to be on the level to lead a franchise to winning.  And should some also reach those abilities, they are dispensable for numerous reasons.  

Tony Dungy(fired and replaced by Gruden), Lovie Smith (Bears  2012 10-6... now a retread and a Rooney Rule excuse), Romeo Crenel (always a RETREAD, Rooney Rule excuse), David Culley (Hired to be fired), Art Shell, Jim Caldwell (Rooney Rule excuse), Tom Flores, Ray Rhodes (one and done), Brian Flores..... Of course more than this small listing.

Numerous Coordinators that NEVER have been given an opportunity..... Many more than the Minority coaches that were hired (or Rooney Rule check-boxed) .

 

  

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Yuccaguy

[BTF]

7 hours ago, Bobref said:

No, I’m saying my original statement of 75% was pretty accurate.

People of color and black are two different things. 

In the United States, people of color include African Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans, Pacific Islander Americans, multiracial Americans, and some Latino Americans, though members of these communities may prefer to view themselves through their cultural identities rather than color-related terminology.

I maintain, 58% black.

[BTF]

7 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

All I am saying with this topic, is simple....

People need to have an EQUAL opportunity to advance beyond that of the playing field once they become or aspire to higher more impactful jobs within the system that exists.  

I cannot see any argument that can support the system that exists as it does now.  

The "network" of NOT hiring those that "resemble" the likes that are like the ownership in place is plainly obvious.  Even Stevie Wonder could see that.....

There is always an excuse for NOT hiring those that fall OUTSIDE of the traditional method of elevation...ie.  Offensive/Defensive Coordinators of color...  But then they are skipped over when an HC is hired who has NO history of either  (ex. Joe Judge).  

The NFL in all its' recent iterations, has gone from "the flag" and a def-facto Americanism by black-balling Colin Kaepernick, to embracing an anti-racist attitude (ie. painting slogans on the field/having slogan on the helmets) only to be called out in their TRUE hiring practices and inability to foment a an "American hope" of promoting individuals by the content of their character rather than their color of their skin.    That is NOT fair, nor will it be ever accepted in these days!  

What would be the argument if the NHL hired a % of minorities that FAR exceed the number of minorities within their league...say 75% of Head Coaches?  I dare say, that there would be an outcry that would wonder, Why? 

What is the difference in the NFL.....Tradition? 

Or just plain and simple, Comfortability with things as they are?  Those not like us, are not within the purview of being seen as having the ability to be on the level to lead a franchise to winning.  And should some also reach those abilities, they are dispensable for numerous reasons.  

Tony Dungy(fired and replaced by Gruden), Lovie Smith (Bears  2012 10-6... now a retread and a Rooney Rule excuse), Romeo Crenel (always a RETREAD, Rooney Rule excuse), David Culley (Hired to be fired), Art Shell, Jim Caldwell (Rooney Rule excuse), Tom Flores, Ray Rhodes (one and done), Brian Flores..... Of course more than this small listing.

Numerous Coordinators that NEVER have been given an opportunity..... Many more than the Minority coaches that were hired (or Rooney Rule check-boxed) .

 

  

 

 

Good Lord. As Temp would say, "lots to unpack here."

People do reserve the right to equal opportunity, that's what the Rooney Rule is for. But owners reserve the right to hire who they think gives their team the best opportunity to win games. 

You're living the seventies and watching too much ABC, NBC, CBS, & CNN. NFL owners care more about wins than they do hiring someone who looks like them. 

Last I checked, toting a football and catching a pass doesn't qualify you as a head coaching position. Stop citing percentages as a reason to hire someone based on their skin color. 

Comparing the NHL is a poor example. Black people, by and large, could care less about hockey. With regard to football, 70% of high school football players are white compared to 20% black. At the college level, 37% are white compared to 50% black. Let's not pretend that being a player at the NFL level somehow qualifies you to be a head coach. Mike Leach and Lou Holtz are good case in points. If you add all three levels together, the number of white people engaged in the sport is much larger than that of black people. 

Blackball Colin Kaepernick? That was well deserved. He hates America, so why should an American organization pay him millions of dollars to throw a football. This guy sat and pouted on the bench when the anthem was playing because he was upset that he wasn't starting that game. When asked about, he came up with this story about how he sat for injustice in America. What was he going to say?......."I pouted like a baby because I lost the starting position.?" He cried like a baby and somehow earned himself the poster boy of injustice in America. Sick. 

 

[temptation]

11 minutes ago, BTF said:

Good Lord. As Temp would say, "lots to unpack here."

People do reserve the right to equal opportunity, that's what the Rooney Rule is for. But owners reserve the right to hire who they think gives their team the best opportunity to win games. 

You're living the seventies and watching too much ABC, NBC, CBS, & CNN. NFL owners care more about wins than they do hiring someone who looks like them. 

Last I checked, toting a football and catching a pass doesn't qualify you as a head coaching position. Stop citing percentages as a reason to hire someone based on their skin color. 

Comparing the NHL is a poor example. Black people, by and large, could care less about hockey. With regard to football, 70% of high school football players are white compared to 20% black. At the college level, 37% are white compared to 50% black. Let's not pretend that being a player at the NFL level somehow qualifies you to be a head coach. Mike Leach and Lou Holtz are good case in points. If you add all three levels together, the number of white people engaged in the sport is much larger than that of black people. 

Blackball Colin Kaepernick? That was well deserved. He hates America, so why should an American organization pay him millions of dollars to throw a football. This guy sat and pouted on the bench when the anthem was playing because he was upset that he wasn't starting that game. When asked about, he came up with this story about how he sat for injustice in America. What was he going to say?......."I pouted like a baby because I lost the starting position.?" He cried like a baby and somehow earned himself the poster boy of injustice in America. Sick. 

 

I’m just glad Dolphins fans could sleep last night knowing that their coach identifies as a “human being first” and that his skin color is irrelevant.

He didn’t take the bait.  Kudos.

Who would have that would EVER be considered a controversial statement.

[temptation]

I’ll just leave this here…

https://wcyb.com/news/nation-world/commissioner-roger-goodell-las-vegas-police-nfl-pro-bowl-interview-alvin-kamara-new-orleans-saints-battery-case-allegiant-stadium-cromwell-drais-nightclub?fbclid=IwAR1v__wXSDY84ZpxXxmLvSTslKjBJu_6IL3S3VEoVDPk7pjNxnJK5BFCxIg
 

Anybody think that @Footballking16 or @gonzoron would be allowed to punch the time clock at McDonald’s before talking to the police and earning their wage?

I think the privilege of being able to live by a different set of rules might offset any potential “racism” in the league’s hiring procedures.

Edited February 12, 2022 by temptation

[Yuccaguy]

To an individual that seems to have an opinion on EVERYTHING all the TIME....

What does a criminal justice situation that is within the purview of the NFLPA have to do with the construct of minority hiring on the level of ownership and the Commissioner's office?

Guess I had better ask Irsay or Kraft what the ramifications of their transgressions were to the Commissioner....  Seems like nada, in the big picture of things.  

But as for another big time poster, a peaceful protest against police brutality is somehow, Un-American. 

Question:  Who is an American? 

[Bobref]

On 2/12/2022 at 5:45 AM, BTF said:

People of color and black are two different things. 

In the United States, people of color include African Americans, Asian Americans, Native Americans, Pacific Islander Americans, multiracial Americans, and some Latino Americans, though members of these communities may prefer to view themselves through their cultural identities rather than color-related terminology.

I maintain, 58% black.

I guess I shouldn’t have included all the Asian Americans and Pacific Islander Americans playing in the NFL in that number. 😅🤣😂

[BTF]

54 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I guess I shouldn’t have included all the Asian Americans and Pacific Islander Americans playing in the NFL in that number. 😅🤣😂

You just assumed that if 25% are white, then 75% are black. In terms of numbers, your mistake was colossal. You pretty much discredited how 17% of NFL football players want to be identified. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by BTF

[Bobref]

34 minutes ago, BTF said:

You just assumed that if 25% are white, then 75% are black. In terms of numbers, your mistake was colossal. You pretty much discredited how 17% of NFL football players want to be identified. 

Mea culpa.

[gonzoron]

1 hour ago, BTF said:

You pretty much discredited how 17% of NFL football players want to be identified. 

What percentage of coaches are Asian American and Pacific Islander? 

[temptation]

5 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

To an individual that seems to have an opinion on EVERYTHING all the TIME....

What does a criminal justice situation that is within the purview of the NFLPA have to do with the construct of minority hiring on the level of ownership and the Commissioner's office?

Guess I had better ask Irsay or Kraft what the ramifications of their transgressions were to the Commissioner....  Seems like nada, in the big picture of things.  

But as for another big time poster, a peaceful protest against police brutality is somehow, Un-American. 

Question:  Who is an American? 

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of folks in the league (regardless of race) being painted as victims by you.  That’s all.

Other than spouting emotionally driven narratives, you have still yet to provide proof that folks are being “blackballed” due to race.  You ignored my Leftwich news story where he DECLINED the job due to a poor relationship with Baalke then just went right back in on your emotional tirade.

Once again, the burden of proof is on you.  You can drop all of the statistics and figures you want but you don’t have one shred of evidence that those numbers are due to racism in hiring practices.

You also conveniently ignored the barrel of the gun being pointed back at you.  Since you are in the business of running with a story based on statistics, could one also look at those same statistics and claim that people who aren’t of color are not getting an equal opportunity as players?  Or does it only work in one direction?

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

Organizations, especially those with millions of dollars on the line are going to hire whom they want and feel gives them the best chance to succeed.  Period.  In fact, I’d say the arrogance of many front offices makes them less likely to hire minorities even when the public pressure is turned up to do so.

Just stop…please. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by temptation

[BTF]

7 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

What percentage of coaches are Asian American and Pacific Islander? 

What's the relevance of your question?

[gonzoron]

1 minute ago, BTF said:

What's the relevance of your question?

Those ethnicities should join the class action lawsuit for the discrimination if they are also under represented. 

[DE]

40 minutes ago, BTF said:

What's the relevance of your question?

he NEVER has one.  

36 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Those ethnicities should join the class action lawsuit for the discrimination if they are also under represented. 

As should all the white players who are under represented in the nfl.  next.

[gonzoron]

2 minutes ago, DE said:

As should all the white players who are under represented in the nfl.

They are free to do so. Maybe they could just start their own league. Problem solved.

[DE]

Just now, gonzoron said:

They are free to do so. Maybe they could just start their own league. Problem solved.

with your "logic", couldn't black/poc do the same?  burden's on you.  go.  you can't so you won't. typical.

[gonzoron]

1 minute ago, DE said:

with your "logic", couldn't black/poc do the same?  burden's on you.  go.  you can't so you won't. typical.

Can you rephrase this in English? What burden are you babbling about?