oldtimeqb Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 29 minutes ago, Footballking16 said: When a kicker has a better chance at winning Mr. Football over someone like Hansen or Tibbs it might be time to start re-thinking the award. Personally, I think the award should be open to all grades, not limited to seniors. I also don't have a problem recognizing the best player in each class either. I always thought Top 50 was senior only as well, but I obviously was mistaken. Two names I thought for sure would be on there were Tayvion Ortman (New Prairie - LB) and Josh Ringer (RB - East Central). However there always seems to be a 6A bias when it comes to awards. 6A has 28/50 Top 50 players - despite having only 32 teams. For me, Hansen should be RB Mr. Football. I honestly didn't even think there would be a question. But then I remembered the 6A thing. I would favor Bowen over Hansen for overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) Edit: Disregard my previous post. Didn't realize Juniors could make the Top 50 Edited December 6, 2022 by FastpacedO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 5 hours ago, FastpacedO said: Yes they would have. Coyle great kid and had a terrific season. I would bet money there are 3 other RB's behind him that know Coach Moore's Wing T system and can run it in their sleep (they've only been doing it since the 2nd or 3rd grade). Wheat went down Coyle stepped up. Thomeson was moved from defense to offense. Regardless of any of that Hansen still had 1,008 more rushing yards in 1 less game (and yes the dogs were called off in games at Roncalli too just like CG) and 13 more TD's. Both were even in receiving yards as well. ANyone that says stats don't matter for a position award is fooling themselves While some CG fans were very upset Russ Yeast did not win Mr. Football over Hunter Johnson, that was less of a travesty than Luke Hansen not being the RB award and it isn't even to the Mr. Football award. When talking schedule strength do NOT use Sagarin as Sagarin does not take Out of State opponents into consideration (good or bad). If you want to debate Strength of Schedule you should look at Calpreps (which takes all opponents into consideration). Roncalli's SOS was 20.5 and Center Grove's was 36.8 (lower the number better the SOS) Roncalli's opponents were 108-62 Center Grove's were 83-74. (Shortridge, Attucks, and Southport definitely brought down Roncalli's SOS both teams had no choice in who they played especially in the Tournament). It can be spun however anyone wants but this was one of the biggest travesty moments for the position awards. I take nothing away from Coyle as he is a good kid and good football player, but he wasn't better than Hansen this year. Yes the CG fans would be super upset if the roles were reversed and that was evident from the year Russ Yeast didn't win it over Hunter Johnson (which was even less of a travesty because Yeast at least got the position award). Coyle did not replace Wheat. They would have been in the backfield together. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The TW Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 This discussion breaks down into two groups: 1. Center Grove fans and the handful of coaches that made the decision 2. Everyone else in the state That is based on TGD profiles and Twitter. It’s a travesty, but it’s over. Maybe this will lead to something new being created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 3 hours ago, Footballking16 said: When a kicker has a better chance at winning Mr. Football over someone like Hansen or Tibbs it might be time to start re-thinking the award. Personally, I think the award should be open to all grades, not limited to seniors. I also don't have a problem recognizing the best player in each class either. They should have started re thinking the award a few years ago when they decided that who you play doesn't matter in the slightest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 5 hours ago, FastpacedO said: While some CG fans were very upset Russ Yeast did not win Mr. Football over Hunter Johnson, that was less of a travesty than Luke Hansen not being the RB award and it isn't even to the Mr. Football award. We shall absolutely agree to disagree with that comment. Yeast was named the Indiana Gatorade Player of the Year, but lost votes for Mr. Football (not position player) because he was a one year Indiana high school player...even though the award is for a senior year only. None of these are "travesties"....but downplaying one issue over another isn't right either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npcougar15 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 3 hours ago, oldtimeqb said: I always thought Top 50 was senior only as well, but I obviously was mistaken. Two names I thought for sure would be on there were Tayvion Ortman (New Prairie - LB) and Josh Ringer (RB - East Central). However there always seems to be a 6A bias when it comes to awards. 6A has 28/50 Top 50 players - despite having only 32 teams. Surprised Ortman didn't get top 50 as well. He was top 50 preseason so he was on everybody's radar. As a junior had 112 tackles then came out his senior season and had 144 tackles, along with a couple interceptions, 3 blocked kicks, numerous pass deflections that led to interceptions and also played on the O-line as a tight end. He passed the eye test at 6'5" 225 and backed it all up on the field. Having 28 6A kids when there are only 32 programs is rather eye opening. I understand they will have more but I doubt if he you made an all-star roster of 1A-5A they'd lose to an all-star roster of just 6A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 16 minutes ago, npcougar15 said: Surprised Ortman didn't get top 50 as well. He was top 50 preseason so he was on everybody's radar. As a junior had 112 tackles then came out his senior season and had 144 tackles, along with a couple interceptions, 3 blocked kicks, numerous pass deflections that led to interceptions and also played on the O-line as a tight end. He passed the eye test at 6'5" 225 and backed it all up on the field. Having 28 6A kids when there are only 32 programs is rather eye opening. I understand they will have more but I doubt if he you made an all-star roster of 1A-5A they'd lose to an all-star roster of just 6A. the all star roster of 1a-5a would be 90% 4a and 5a players (predominately 4a if it were this year), and I would throw my money behind the 6a team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) Meanwhile, sorta off topic four QBs are the four leading vote getters and finalists for the Heisman Trophy. Not much better at the college level I guess. Two broken systems. Edited December 6, 2022 by temptation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragdoll Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 16 hours ago, Donnie Baker said: Bo what’s his name. He was a badass but was burnt out on football by his sophomore season at IU. Bo Barzilauskas was a much different level player who should have been in NFL if not for burnout. Would have been D line, likely. His dad, Carl, was a high draft pick (OL) coming out of IU in early 70's (played for John Pont). Badass indeed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 1 hour ago, Grover said: Coyle did not replace Wheat. They would have been in the backfield together. I didn't state that Coyle replaced Wheat, I said he stepped up taking a bulk of the load. I also stated Thomeson was moved from defense to offense. 1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said: We shall absolutely agree to disagree with that comment. Yeast was named the Indiana Gatorade Player of the Year, but lost votes for Mr. Football (not position player) because he was a one year Indiana high school player...even though the award is for a senior year only. None of these are "travesties"....but downplaying one issue over another isn't right either. Gatorade Player of the Year and Mr. Football are 2 different awards by two different entities and they are not one in the same. The difference is Yeast was at least voted as a position award winner and Hansen was not. Directly why I say it is a travesty. He (Hansen will not even have the opportunity to be up for Mr. Football because he was not a position award winner. It is a joke and he 100% had the statistics at RB to win the RB position award. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 20 minutes ago, FastpacedO said: Gatorade Player of the Year and Mr. Football are 2 different awards by two different entities and they are not one in the same. The difference is Yeast was at least voted as a position award winner and Hansen was not. Directly why I say it is a travesty. He (Hansen will not even have the opportunity to be up for Mr. Football because he was not a position award winner. It is a joke and he 100% had the statistics at RB to win the RB position award. Thanks...I do know the difference between the 2 awards. My point is that you were downplaying Yeast not winning Mr. Football and that's not right. The comment about Gatorade Player of the Year recognition illustrates he was more than deserving of the Mr. Indiana Football award. There is no need to compare, other than both decisions were disappointing for many. Period. One is not worse than the other. You and I have a different definition for the word "travesty". Not receiving an award doesn't fit my definition of travesty. If it fits yours, consider yourself very, very fortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share Posted December 6, 2022 20 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said: Thanks...I do know the difference between the 2 awards. My point is that you were downplaying Yeast not winning Mr. Football and that's not right. The comment about Gatorade Player of the Year recognition illustrates he was more than deserving of the Mr. Indiana Football award. There is no need to compare, other than both decisions were disappointing for many. Period. One is not worse than the other. You and I have a different definition for the word "travesty". Not receiving an award doesn't fit my definition of travesty. If it fits yours, consider yourself very, very fortunate. Stop getting caught up in the language. Obviously it’s not life and death but if you’re going to do something, do it right. You also a “polls don’t matter” guy I bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said: My point is that you were downplaying Yeast not winning Mr. Football and that's not right. You and I have a different definition for the word "travesty". Not receiving an award doesn't fit my definition of travesty. If it fits yours, consider yourself very, very fortunate. I stated that Yeast did not win Mr. Football over another terrific player with very good stats, but he at least won a position award. Hansen did not get the RB position award while have 1,008 more yards rushing and 13 more TD's than the player that did get the position award and will not be able to be in the running for Mr. Football (huge difference). I typed it out very clearly and posted the statistics for a position award. Would you rather me use absurd. I don't know what your definition of travesty is, but I think you would be surprised at how it can fit. Difference is you are a Center Grove fan so you have no problem with one. I am not even close to a Roncalli fan. Edited December 6, 2022 by FastpacedO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeCookin Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 On 12/5/2022 at 10:46 AM, temptation said: WR: Joe Walker - Warren Central QB: Mason Wunderlich - Ev. Mater Dei RB: Micah Coyle - Center Grove TE: George Burhenn - Mt. Vernon OL: Leighton Jones - Brownsburg DL: Josh Mickens - Lawrence Central LB: Drayk Bowen - Andrean DB: Dillon Thienemann - Westfield K: Elijah Slibeck - Warren Central Who did Roncalli piss off? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 1 hour ago, temptation said: Stop getting caught up in the language. Obviously it’s not life and death but if you’re going to do something, do it right. You also a “polls don’t matter” guy I bet? I think it less about me getting caught up in language than you obviously being upset about the outcome. Do it right? I didn't agree with the Yeast decision, but I also have some faith in people that dedicate themselves to this great game to cast votes that they believe in with a degree of solid basis. Are they as smart as you or I? Well, in my case, I would say they are. I'll let you decide about you for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grover Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 40 minutes ago, HomeCookin said: Did he lead the nation in tackles? If not this is a travesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 1 hour ago, FastpacedO said: I stated that Yeast did not win Mr. Football over another terrific player with very good stats, but he at least won a position award. Hansen did not get the RB position award while have 1,008 more yards rushing and 13 more TD's than the player that did get the position award and will not be able to be in the running for Mr. Football (huge difference). I typed it out very clearly and posted the statistics for a position award. Would you rather me use absurd. I don't know what your definition of travesty is, but I think you would be surprised at how it can fit. Difference is you are a Center Grove fan so you have no problem with one. I am not even close to a Roncalli fan. Question for you? Does every Heisman winning RB always lead the nation in rushing and TD's? Same for the Doak Walker award? Does every Heisman winning QB always lead the nation in passing yardage, passing TD's, etc.? Same for the Davey O'Brien award? Is it truly only about pure stats? If it were, it would make it very simple and it would take any guess out of the award. We could throw out different levels of competition, impact to the team, etc. Just stats....nothing else. Sounds a tad boring and also not an accurate assessment of the best player at the position...but to each his own. I am going to say this again...I think they are both terrific players that had terrific years. I have been disappointed before when it comes to awards. As I continue to age, I realize that awards don't define anyone and I bet both young men would give them up in a New York minute to wear that blue medal around their neck. Congratulations to both young men....they are both more than worthy of the award. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share Posted December 6, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said: I think it less about me getting caught up in language than you obviously being upset about the outcome. Do it right? I didn't agree with the Yeast decision, but I also have some faith in people that dedicate themselves to this great game to cast votes that they believe in with a degree of solid basis. Are they as smart as you or I? Well, in my case, I would say they are. I'll let you decide about you for yourself. You are deflecting by focusing on the language. Once again, the Yeast decision is an apples to oranges comparison here. Russ was a finalist because the current rules were not in place. Don’t get me started on “voters.” This should be a slam dunk for Hansen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said: Question for you? Does every Heisman winning RB always lead the nation in rushing and TD's? Same for the Doak Walker award? Does every Heisman winning QB always lead the nation in passing yardage, passing TD's, etc.? Same for the Davey O'Brien award? Is it truly only about pure stats? If it were, it would make it very simple and it would take any guess out of the award. We could throw out different levels of competition, impact to the team, etc. Just stats....nothing else. Sounds a tad boring and also not an accurate assessment of the best player at the position...but to each his own. I am going to say this again...I think they are both terrific players that had terrific years. I have been disappointed before when it comes to awards. As I continue to age, I realize that awards don't define anyone and I bet both young men would give them up in a New York minute to wear that blue medal around their neck. Congratulations to both young men....they are both more than worthy of the award. No, just like this award the Heisman has become the best player on the best team. Or should I say the player with the highest star rating. Stetson Bennett won’t win it which bucks this trend a bit but him getting invited to NYC over guys like Hooker and Corum is also a TRAVESTY (yeah I said it again). Edited December 6, 2022 by temptation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 4 minutes ago, temptation said: Once again, the Yeast decision is an apples to oranges comparison here. Russ was a finalist because the current rules were not in place. I have no idea what rules were in place with Yeast was a senior. He did win the RB position award. Was it required to be Mr. Football? You tell me.... Love your passion....well, kind of.... 2 minutes ago, temptation said: No, just like this award the Heisman has become the best player on the best team. Stetson Bennett won’t win it which bucks this trend a bit but him getting invited to NYC over guys like Hooker and Corum is also a TRAVESTY (yeah I said it again). You are an emotional fella...will give you that..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share Posted December 6, 2022 1 minute ago, Bash Riprock said: I have no idea what rules were in place with Yeast was a senior. He did win the RB position award. Was it required to be Mr. Football? You tell me.... Love your passion....well, kind of.... I believe they were separate and not reliant upon one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Riprock Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 1 minute ago, Bash Riprock said: I have no idea what rules were in place with Yeast was a senior. He did win the RB position award. Was it required to be Mr. Football? You tell me.... Love your passion....well, kind of.... You are an emotional fella...will give you that.....and the obvious expert when it comes to deserving recognition.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptation Posted December 6, 2022 Author Share Posted December 6, 2022 Just now, Bash Riprock said: Flip Hansen and Bowen’s schedules and tell me how things play out… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarab527 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 12 minutes ago, temptation said: Flip Hansen and Bowen’s schedules and tell me how things play out… Flip Hansen and Bowen's lines and tell me how things play out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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