Sectional Draw 2023

[BLACKGOLD2007]

1 minute ago, Gipper said:

I agree, shouldn't be happening. but in the IHSAA's tried and true format, it's a cross we must bear.  But in a weird way, Lowell can almost breeze their way to their Sectional final.

Back when they formatted the 6A class, the DAC was littered with 6A schools. Penn for like the first 4 or 5 years was a near lock for Semi-State each year because sectionals 1 and 2 were weak compared to the rest of the class. 

[Boilernation]

14 hours ago, npcougar15 said:

4A sectional 17 championship is week 1. Hobart @ New Prairie. 

By far the 2 best teams square off in the first round. Bottom half of the bracket features arguably 4 of the 5 worst teams. Lowell was given a gift. 

 

Yep. But on the flip side the winner of New Prairie and Hobart gets 2 weeks to regroup and heal. I think it's safe to say both squads could get away with not using all starters for 4 quarters throughout the remainder of Sectionals if they play their cards right.

 

[Gipper]

55 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Yep. But on the flip side the winner of New Prairie and Hobart gets 2 weeks to regroup and heal. I think it's safe to say both squads could get away with not using all starters for 4 quarters throughout the remainder of Sectionals if they play their cards right.

 

Basically as both Hobart and NP obliterated Lowell this season.

[Footballking16]

1 hour ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I personally would prefer a fully seeded playoffs, idc how you seed it, but this nonsense of who gets homefield based on who played away or didnt....better seeded teams should be playing at home.  That is the benefit of playing a tough schedule and winning.

They won't fully seed the playoffs because the next logical step is a qualifier. The all-in blind draw keeps the mythical "Cinderella" story alive regardless of how much it screws deserving teams along the way. It's also the IHSAA's only way of justifying unnecessary blowouts in a postseason format.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

They won't fully seed the playoffs because the next logical step is a qualifier. The all-in blind draw keeps the mythical "Cinderella" story alive regardless of how much it screws deserving teams along the way. It's also the IHSAA's only way of justifying unnecessary blowouts in a postseason format.

I know, just wishful thinking. 

So, question, is Cathedral likely to stay in 6A or are they going to be success factored back to 5A?

[Basementbias]

9 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

They won't fully seed the playoffs because the next logical step is a qualifier. The all-in blind draw keeps the mythical "Cinderella" story alive regardless of how much it screws deserving teams along the way. It's also the IHSAA's only way of justifying unnecessary blowouts in a postseason format.

Say it every year, just COMPROMISE! Seed the top half of each sectional using what ever factors & systems and random draw the rest. Seeded teams host first round and then better seed hosts from there. Regional & semi states be neutral sites. Keep the all in format & no qualifiers.

[Gipper]

1 hour ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Back when they formatted the 6A class, the DAC was littered with 6A schools. Penn for like the first 4 or 5 years was a near lock for Semi-State each year because sectionals 1 and 2 were weak compared to the rest of the class. 

As I perused the bracket, I noticed that the winner of the Hobart-New Prairie game will face the winner of the Gary West-Kankakee Valley Kougars (with a K) game who happen to be coached by none other than, wait for it:

 

KIRK (I OWN NWI FOOTBALL) KENNEDY

 

No, that shouldn't change things all that much, just makes them more interesting.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Gipper

[Footballking16]

5 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

I know, just wishful thinking. 

So, question, is Cathedral likely to stay in 6A or are they going to be success factored back to 5A?

I believe they need a sectional win to accumulate the necessary points to stay in 6A. Lawrence North will be a battle.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

This would be interesting to see, it also would not in any way be approved.

Do away with success factor and go to yearly relegation system.

Bottom 5 move down a class while the top 5 move up a class. You can base this on two ways: 1) purely Sagarin ratings. 2)the final four move up plus the best Sagarin rated team remaining.

If the season were to end right now, the bottom 5 6A schools are Portage, Northrup, Southport, Indy Tech. and Jeffersonville. The top 5 5A schools are Bloomington South, Valpo, FW Snider, Mishawaka and Merrillville. 

This would give the 6A north a huge expansion at the top of state, but also push some of the HCC schools back into the south to balance out the state. 

Beyond this I haven't given this much thought about how it will effect each program, but it would be more interesting from year to year. 

3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I believe they need a sectional win to accumulate the necessary points to stay in 6A. Lawrence North will be a battle.

If they don't get the points, can Cathedral elect to stay in 6A or is that not an option. 

[Footballking16]

4 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

If they don't get the points, can Cathedral elect to stay in 6A or is that not an option.

They can of course petition to remain in 6A although that won't happen. 

[scarab527]

Unpopular opinion: It doesn’t matter what round teams play each other in sectionals. The cream will always rise. This is a semantic issue more than anything. 

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

They can of course petition to remain in 6A although that won't happen. 

By the way I believe they have already secured their spot in 6A for the next cycle. Only need 2 points instead of 3 I just read. 

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

Unpopular opinion: It doesn’t matter what round teams play each other in sectionals. The cream will always rise. This is a semantic issue more than anything. 

While it is an opinion true, you are correct that cream always rises to the top. However it completely renders the regular season meaningless in the process.

[BLACKGOLD2007]

1 minute ago, scarab527 said:

Unpopular opinion: It doesn’t matter what round teams play each other in sectionals. The cream will always rise. This is a semantic issue more than anything. 

Sure, but when two of the three best teams in 6A south are playing game 1, it makes the overall tournament less interesting. 

But, you are correct, the best teams will typically be standing in the end.  

[scarab527]

9 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

While it is an opinion true, you are correct that cream always rises to the top. However it completely renders the regular season meaningless in the process.

See I always hear this refrain about the regular season not mattering, but is that actually how coaches/players feel? I don’t remember any coach or player I played under/with ever saying “the regular season doesn’t matter”. That’s literally only something I started hearing when I got on this board. Is it a case of the regular season actually not mattering or does it just not matter to us pundits? 
 

[scarab527]

9 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Sure, but when two of the three best teams in 6A south are playing game 1, it makes the overall tournament less interesting. 

But, you are correct, the best teams will typically be standing in the end.  

I agree that Brownsburg and Ben Davis playing in round 1 does kinda suck, but is it really that big of a tragedy that they’re playing round 1 instead of round 2? I would support seeding if the tournament were like Illinois/Indiana where not every team makes it, but with the all-in format basically necessitating that sectionals be divided up geographically, I don’t really see the need for seeding. The best team in that area will win the sectional no matter what order of teams they play.  

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

See I always hear this refrain about the regular season not mattering, but is that actually how coaches/players feel? I don’t remember any coach or player I played under/with ever saying “the regular season doesn’t matter”. That’s literally only something I started hearing when I got on this board. Is it a case of the regular season actually not mattering or does it just not matter to us pundits? 
 

Can't imagine Brownsburg thinks the regular season means much after going undefeated in the hardest conference in the state and drawing the #2 team in the state in the first round while 1-8 Pike and 0-9 Tech play on the opposite side of the bracket.

Coaches and players might not come out and say it publicly but every single one of them knows it's total bush league. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

4 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

I agree that Brownsburg and Ben Davis playing in round 1 does kinda suck, but is it really that big of a tragedy that they’re playing round 1 instead of round 2? I would support seeding if the tournament were like Illinois/Indiana where not every team makes it, but with the all-in format basically necessitating that sectionals be divided up geographically, I don’t really see the need for seeding. The best team in that area will win the sectional no matter what order of teams they play.  

Oh the bigger tragedy is that they would be playing in either week 1 or 2. You are correct 100%. I just hate seeing teams that have dominated all season long, not get a chance to compete for a "championship"

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Oh the bigger tragedy is that they would be playing in either week 1 or 2. You are correct 100%. I just hate seeing teams that have dominated all season long, not get a chance to compete for a "championship"

And 5A and 6A you could easily do away with sectionals and regionals and seed North and South appropriately.

[WWFan]

26 minutes ago, BLACKGOLD2007 said:

Sure, but when two of the three best teams in 6A south are playing game 1, it makes the overall tournament less interesting. 

But, you are correct, the best teams will typically be standing in the end.  

Regardless of class I've never heard a team celebrating sectional runner up. While I get it sucks for fans who may wanna go I don't get why it matters if they play rd 1, 2 or 3. Win sectional. That's all that counts. 

[BLACKGOLD2007]

8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

And 5A and 6A you could easily do away with sectionals and regionals and seed North and South appropriately.

Agreed. The very northern part of 6A is so thin, that no matter what travel is inevitable. in Sectional 2, we have Penn and Elkhart (the two closest teams) and Warsaw and Carroll. No matter what teams are going to travel at least an hour at some point to play in a sectional game. 

[scarab527]

25 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Can't imagine Brownsburg thinks the regular season means much after going undefeated in the hardest conference in the state and drawing the #2 team in the state in the first round while 1-8 Pike and 0-9 Tech play on the opposite side of the bracket.

Coaches and players might not come out and say it publicly but every single one of them knows it's total bush league. 

What a tragedy they have to play a team one week earlier than they otherwise would’ve. 

13 minutes ago, WWFan said:

Regardless of class I've never heard a team celebrating sectional runner up. While I get it sucks for fans who may wanna go I don't get why it matters if they play rd 1, 2 or 3. Win sectional. That's all that counts. 

Exactly. Don’t think teams care whether they lost round 1 or in the sectional title game. 

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

What a tragedy they have to play a team one week earlier than they otherwise would’ve. 

One of these teams isn't even going to get the chance to play for a sectional title, let alone anything past that. It isn't a tragedy, it's just ineptness from the IHSAA. 

It's a simple fix.

[JQWL]

6 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

What a tragedy they have to play a team one week earlier than they otherwise would’ve. 

Exactly. Don’t think teams care whether they lost round 1 or in the sectional title game. 

I agree I don't think teams care if they lost in round 1 or in a sectional title game but that's not the point. You get very few games in football. The teams that are better, should be rewarded with more games. Those freshmen and sophomores that may not play a lot of varsity but those extra weeks of practice that teams get when they advance are a huge advantage for those kids and their development.

[WestfieldRocks]

40 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

What a tragedy they have to play a team one week earlier than they otherwise would’ve. 

Exactly. Don’t think teams care whether they lost round 1 or in the sectional title game. 

So don't put them in the same sectional. Why do sectionals have to be predetermined prior to the regular season anyway? Seed the sectionals, then go from there.

[scarab527]

35 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

One of these teams isn't even going to get the chance to play for a sectional title, let alone anything past that. It isn't a tragedy, it's just ineptness from the IHSAA. 

It's a simple fix.

If you're playing the other best team in your Sectional, isn't that the de facto Sectional Championship? Again, seems like its really only a semantic issue. If a team is that shook up about losing in the de facto Sectional Championship as opposed to the official Sectional Championship, I think they've got their priorities in the wrong place. 

 

33 minutes ago, JQWL said:

I agree I don't think teams care if they lost in round 1 or in a sectional title game but that's not the point. You get very few games in football. The teams that are better, should be rewarded with more games. Those freshmen and sophomores that may not play a lot of varsity but those extra weeks of practice that teams get when they advance are a huge advantage for those kids and their development.

Is it the IHSAA's responsibility to ensure more reps for Freshmen/Sophomores, or is it the coach's? The IHSAA's responsibility in this is to run a football tournament in the most expedient way possible.