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R.I.P. Munster Football - Never thought I'd see the day


Guest DT

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Munster football, the pride and glory of countless Munster Mustang former players who have worn the red and white over the past 50 years , is DOA.

The Stangs hit rock bottom Friday night,  getting blasted by Hammond Morton 69-7.  This Munster football team is simply uncompetitive.  The Mustangs are 0-4 and outscored 162-14 on the season.

Jason Grunewald, who took over for Hall of Famer Leroy Marsh, is 2-12 in his second season at the helm.

Munster football, while never in the picture on the statewide season, is a blueblood in Northwest Indiana, considered one of the top programs along with Merrillville, Hobart, Griffith and Lowell over the years.  Munster combined the best of toughness, booksmarts, execution and skill and was always competitive, even while competing generally against much larger schools.

Munster played in arguably the biggest regular season game in NWI history when the Mustangs hosted defending state champ Merrillville in 1977.  10000 fans jammed the stadium and thousands more watched from outside the gates as the two region titans went toe to toe , with Merrillville pulling away late for the win.

It wasn't long ago that the Munster football coaching job was still considered a prime target.  Those days appear to be over.  Munster is to NWI as Carmel is to Indy.  What happened to Munster football.  Can it be saved?

As a Highland guy, we hated Munster, but we respected Munster.  Tough as nails, extreme competitiveness, and a haughty hubris that comes with wealth and privilege

I hope they get it figured out, but Im not sure it can be fixed.  Munster is a bastion of higher education, and athletics have been marginalized, and football seems to have been abandoned.   Its a real shame to see what has happened to this once proud program.

 

 

 

 

Edited by DT
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@DT

I’m not much of a guy when it comes to knowing anything about Northern Indiana football....but I think I highlighted the issue.

 

The best coaches always bring out the best in their players. Idk anything about the new coach or schemes or the numbers they have but at least on paper/your post...just think you answered your own concern here. Replacing a great coach is always a tall task 

F8B89C68-DF8B-471F-B326-D6C2540E7970.jpeg

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1 minute ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

@DT

I’m not much of a guy when it comes to knowing anything about Northern Indiana football....but I think I highlighted the issue.

 

The best coaches always bring out the best in their players. Idk anything about the new coach or schemes or the numbers they have but at least on paper/your post...just think you answered your own concern here. Replacing a great coach is always a tall task 

F8B89C68-DF8B-471F-B326-D6C2540E7970.jpeg

It goes way beyond that

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The program has been on a steady decline for several years.  The current level of decline is much steeper.  Never thought it would get this bad.  They've always had talent and good numbers.  Now they appear to have neither.  Goods are choosing to do other things now.  More studies.  Less contact sports.  More travel.  Munster is probably more impacted by this than most schools due to their ultra high economic profile.

 

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1 hour ago, DumfriesYMCA said:

@DT

I’m not much of a guy when it comes to knowing anything about Northern Indiana football....but I think I highlighted the issue.

 

The best coaches always bring out the best in their players. Idk anything about the new coach or schemes or the numbers they have but at least on paper/your post...just think you answered your own concern here. Replacing a great coach is always a tall task 

F8B89C68-DF8B-471F-B326-D6C2540E7970.jpeg

Looks to me like DT copied this article verbatim.

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5 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Munster did not have a JV team last year:   Legit, no JV team


Wouldn't that put them on the contraction watch ? :classic_rolleyes:

Off topic but 3A Pike Central has no JV team this season. Varsity  roster lists 24 players 8 Freshman, 6 Sophomores, 5 Juniors and 5 Seniors.

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2 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Munster did not have a JV team last year:   Legit, no JV team


Wouldn't that put them on the contraction watch ? :classic_rolleyes:

In a school with their tradition, and an enrollment of over 1,500, they couldn’t field a JV team. And I say that as a proud alumnus of Munster Football.

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3 hours ago, Bobref said:

In this case, you’re killing the messenger.

I understand the parameters. DT should offer solutions not messages, depending on his motives. If the goal is to preserve HS football, there are options like co-oping or not playing 11s. However, to label DT as merely a messenger is naive and above you. 

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16 minutes ago, hhpatriot04 said:

I understand the parameters. DT should offer solutions not messages, depending on his motives. If the goal is to preserve HS football, there are options like co-oping or not playing 11s. However, to label DT as merely a messenger is naive and above you. 

He’s just reciting facts on this issue. Not like his contraction mantra.

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53 minutes ago, Bobref said:

He’s just reciting facts on this issue. Not like his contraction mantra.

It's insinuated and as a person of the law you should see he's introducing evidence to bolster his contraction argument. Would you not object on irrelevance? I can counter with programs like Gibson Southern which could have been contracted 10 years ago but rebounded. Until DT provides some comprehensive data, he's simply picking and choosing when it meets his goal... Whatever that is. 

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1 hour ago, hhpatriot04 said:

It's insinuated and as a person of the law you should see he's introducing evidence to bolster his contraction argument. Would you not object on irrelevance? I can counter with programs like Gibson Southern which could have been contracted 10 years ago but rebounded. Until DT provides some comprehensive data, he's simply picking and choosing when it meets his goal... Whatever that is. 

The primary goal of the contraction initiative is to improve overall competitive balance by eliminating the extreme bottom feeders who neither have the will nor the resources to compete at a sufficient level.

As numbers continue to decline, more programs will contract after completing a thorough cost-benefit analysis to determine competitive viability.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, DT said:

The primary goal of the contraction initiative is to improve overall competitive balance by eliminating the extreme bottom feeders who neither have the will nor the resources to compete at a sufficient level.

As numbers continue to decline, more programs will contract after completing a thorough cost-benefit analysis to determine competitive viability.

 

 

 

Can you quantify "sufficient level" and "cost" and "benefit?" These seem like arbitrary terms. Should there be statewide criteria or at the school corporation or at the athletics' department level? If bounds are not set, then people with alterior motives can end football programs for "little Bobby not starting at QB" ... I've seen a Hall of Fame basketball coach fired for as much. It's a bit of a transitive argument, but I'm sure it could happen with contracting as well given the right circumstances.

 

Co-oping, similiar to Illinois, makes much sense. Although, I'm not sure if that falls into your contraction mission. Schools like Barr-Reeve and Loogootee have a different times been perennial powers in basketball, but never had football programs (Northeast Dubois, Orleans as well). Surely there are some Amish farm boys in those school districts who would find playing time at surrounding schools. 

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1 hour ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Can you quantify "sufficient level" and "cost" and "benefit?" These seem like arbitrary terms. Should there be statewide criteria or at the school corporation or at the athletics' department level? If bounds are not set, then people with alterior motives can end football programs for "little Bobby not starting at QB" ... I've seen a Hall of Fame basketball coach fired for as much. It's a bit of a transitive argument, but I'm sure it could happen with contracting as well given the right circumstances.

 

Co-oping, similiar to Illinois, makes much sense. Although, I'm not sure if that falls into your contraction mission. Schools like Barr-Reeve and Loogootee have a different times been perennial powers in basketball, but never had football programs (Northeast Dubois, Orleans as well). Surely there are some Amish farm boys in those school districts who would find playing time at surrounding schools. 

i am strongly in favor of the IHSAA implementing Minimum Participation Standards (MPS) by class, which is primarily a mechanism to insure player safety and a reasonable level of competitive capability

Teams must practice. daily in order to compete at even a minimal level on Friday night's.  Daily practice requires bodies.  The IHSAA must also attempt to minimize the need for full time 2 way players

My MPS proposal requires the following roster minimums by class :

1A - 22

2A  - 26

3A  - 30

4A  - 35

5A - 40

6A - 45

Schools who cannot meet these roster minimums must cancel their season and perform an internal cost - benefit analysis to determine if football is a viable extra curricular activity for their particular school.  The IHSAA would determine if reinstatement is appropriate. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Can you quantify "sufficient level" and "cost" and "benefit?" These seem like arbitrary terms. Should there be statewide criteria or at the school corporation or at the athletics' department level? If bounds are not set, then people with alterior motives can end football programs for "little Bobby not starting at QB" ... I've seen a Hall of Fame basketball coach fired for as much. It's a bit of a transitive argument, but I'm sure it could happen with contracting as well given the right circumstances.

 

Co-oping, similiar to Illinois, makes much sense. Although, I'm not sure if that falls into your contraction mission. Schools like Barr-Reeve and Loogootee have a different times been perennial powers in basketball, but never had football programs (Northeast Dubois, Orleans as well). Surely there are some Amish farm boys in those school districts who would find playing time at surrounding schools. 

I'm sure Carroll (Flora), Frankfort, Clinton Central, Clinton Prairie, etc. would love to have the OMG! football athletes roaming the halls at Rossville, just looking for someone to tackle.

 

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