BTF Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 This is getting comical. After an unimpressive win against conference weakling Dwenger, the Spartans drop from 8th to 27th in the Sagarin Ratings. One week later they beat lowly Snider and drop from 27th to 56th. Fifty five teams in the State of Indiana that are better than Homestead according to this poll. Shouldn't the Sagarin Ratings be at least semi-accurate after 5 weeks? I know, it's just a poll.............bla, bla, bla. I'm just disappointed because I thought after 5 weeks it would be at least somewhat accurate. South Adams over Homestead Eastbrook over Snider Western Boone over Dwenger Rensselaer over Carroll If Sagarin is right, the SAC is in an absolute state of disarray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakone Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I don't want to hear that garbage that they only play teams in their own conference. How many teams that rose above Homestead played an in conference game? At least I can finally say I'm smarter than a computer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKnights7 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Can you imagine if South Adams and homestead matched up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BLKnights7 said: Can you imagine if South Adams and homestead matched up I have a lot of respect for South Adams. Pound for pound one of the best teams in the state this year. But the 1A school wouldn't have a morsel of a chance against 6A Homestead. Edited September 21, 2019 by BTF spelling 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKnights7 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 47 minutes ago, BTF said: I have a lot of respect for South Adams. Pound for pound one of the best teams in the state this year. But the 1A school wouldn't have a morsel of a chance against 6A Homestead. Have family that live in Berne and played for South Adams in past they have a solid program down there. Look good this year in 1a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) SAC is a beast this year. Suburb schools Carroll and Homestead really stepping up their game SAC-MIC-HCC Gap is closing fast Edited September 21, 2019 by DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted September 21, 2019 Author Share Posted September 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, DT said: SAC is a beast this year. Suburb schools Carroll and Homestead really stepping up their game SAC-MIC-HCC Gap is closing fast Is this just a wave of talent going through those two schools? Will they both go another decade without beating Snider and Dwenger after the 2019 and 2020 seasons? (Btw, both teams will be very good next year.) Personally, I think both programs are closing the gap as a result of leaving the NHC in 2015 and joining the SAC. Every week is a fight now instead of a guaranteed undefeated season (Homestead) and a guaranteed early round exit in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staxawax Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 3 hours ago, DT said: SAC is a beast this year. Suburb schools Carroll and Homestead really stepping up their game SAC-MIC-HCC Gap is closing fast Yes, you ARE hurt by only playing a full conference schedule. At least by Sagarin. HCC was that way for years and couldn't prove anything until tournament time. The SAC has 4 quality teams and 6 bottom feeders. Unfortunately everyone plays everyone, so the bottom feeders are going to hold down your strength of schedule. Nobody believes that any of the top four in the SAC couldn't beat Noblesville or Pike, the two last place teams in the other leagues, but their rating is boosted because of oppositions SOS. Come sectional time someone is going to get the chance to beat up on Noblesville and then the sectional winner will get either Carmel or one of 3 HCC teams in the regional. You'll have to wait until then to prove your point. I personally don't think you can put the entire league on par with the other two, but the top 4....... certainly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Bring Dinan on baby!!! 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakone Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Staxawax said: Yes, you ARE hurt by only playing a full conference schedule. At least by Sagarin. HCC was that way for years and couldn't prove anything until tournament time. The SAC has 4 quality teams and 6 bottom feeders. Unfortunately everyone plays everyone, so the bottom feeders are going to hold down your strength of schedule. Nobody believes that any of the top four in the SAC couldn't beat Noblesville or Pike, the two last place teams in the other leagues, but their rating is boosted because of oppositions SOS. Come sectional time someone is going to get the chance to beat up on Noblesville and then the sectional winner will get either Carmel or one of 3 HCC teams in the regional. You'll have to wait until then to prove your point. I personally don't think you can put the entire league on par with the other two, but the top 4....... certainly! Again I repeat which one of the schools that blew by them in the rankings played a team out of conference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staxawax Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, jakone said: Again I repeat which one of the schools that blew by them in the rankings played a team out of conference? Your question is somewhat irrelevant. The rankings are based on not only who you played last, but what your past opponents also did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Staxawax said: Yes, you ARE hurt by only playing a full conference schedule. At least by Sagarin. HCC was that way for years and couldn't prove anything until tournament time. The SAC has 4 quality teams and 6 bottom feeders. Unfortunately everyone plays everyone, so the bottom feeders are going to hold down your strength of schedule. Nobody believes that any of the top four in the SAC couldn't beat Noblesville or Pike, the two last place teams in the other leagues, but their rating is boosted because of oppositions SOS. Come sectional time someone is going to get the chance to beat up on Noblesville and then the sectional winner will get either Carmel or one of 3 HCC teams in the regional. You'll have to wait until then to prove your point. I personally don't think you can put the entire league on par with the other two, but the top 4....... certainly! It’ll be a bad look if Noblesville (regarded as the bottom feeder in the HCC) holds their own against one of the three SAC schools). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonio Browns Alter Ego Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 10 hours ago, BTF said: This is getting comical. After an unimpressive win against conference weakling Dwenger, the Spartans drop from 8th to 27th in the Sagarin Ratings. One week later they beat lowly Snider and drop from 27th to 56th. Fifty five teams in the State of Indiana that are better than Homestead according to this poll. Shouldn't the Sagarin Ratings be at least semi-accurate after 5 weeks? I know, it's just a poll.............bla, bla, bla. I'm just disappointed because I thought after 5 weeks it would be at least somewhat accurate. South Adams over Homestead Eastbrook over Snider Western Boone over Dwenger Rensselaer over Carroll If Sagarin is right, the SAC is in an absolute state of disarray. Not a single 1a or 2a school beats Homestead, Snider, Dwenger or Carroll. Those ratings are bad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoopsCoach Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Sagarin rankings are a mathematical formula, not a poll. There are no votes cast to determine the rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 An absolute embarrassment that 1a schools are being ranked anywhere other than 'should not be playing football', let alone over homestead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boilernation Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Temptation said: It’ll be a bad look if Noblesville (regarded as the bottom feeder in the HCC) holds their own against one of the three SAC schools). Noblesville possibly will, but I don’t think it’s a bad look in the SAC. The HCC is a conference full of Homestead’s and Carroll’s. Noblesville doesn’t get an off week with North, South, Wayne, Northrop, or smaller private schools. I’ve seen quite a lot of Homestead on Summit City Sports. IMO, they have the offense that could possibly ruin the MIC party on Thanksgiving weekend. They are huge offensively with good skill in the passing game. I don’t have their line size, but the skills are: 6’6 QB, 6’0 205 WR, 6’4 WR, and a 6’3 230 TE has committed to Bowling Green. The QB is an Iowa basketball recruit who isn’t a stiff. That TE is a monster who seemingly catches everything thrown to him across the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Let me get this logic straight. Fact 1: 10 high school playing schools out of roughly 320 in Indiana have organized themselves in such a fashion that they ONLY play each other for the first 8 weeks of the season. They do not play any other teams in the State of Indiana......PERIOD. In other words, for the first 8 weeks of the football season these schools might as well be playing all of their games in Zimbabwe. Fact 2: A computer program is developed to compare and contrast teams in a given geographic area and predict just where those teams stand in relation with one another. Said program or some form of it is used throughout the country as a means to rank teams in multiple sports nationally at every level of play. The basis of the program is making connections between teams as they play one another and extending those connections throughout all the various hundreds of teams throughout the State. Fact 3: Certain persons from said teams think the rating system is “dumb”, “stooopid” or something along those lines because it cannot properly rank their relative standing among the other 310 teams in the State because they refuse to play ANY OF THE OTHER 320 teams. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staxawax Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 They actually play all 9 weeks in conference. The HCC did this from ‘06 - ‘13. It makes it impossible for the algorithm to rate teams until tournament play. Sagarin continues all the way through to the championship, so remaining teams each week continue to be rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Boilernation said: Noblesville possibly will, but I don’t think it’s a bad look in the SAC. The HCC is a conference full of Homestead’s and Carroll’s. Noblesville doesn’t get an off week with North, South, Wayne, Northrop, or smaller private schools. I’ve seen quite a lot of Homestead on Summit City Sports. IMO, they have the offense that could possibly ruin the MIC party on Thanksgiving weekend. They are huge offensively with good skill in the passing game. I don’t have their line size, but the skills are: 6’6 QB, 6’0 205 WR, 6’4 WR, and a 6’3 230 TE has committed to Bowling Green. The QB is an Iowa basketball recruit who isn’t a stiff. That TE is a monster who seemingly catches everything thrown to him across the middle. I’ve heard this before. I was just responding to DT’s comment that the “gap is closing fast”...I don’t agree with that part and think Noblesville could be competitive in the sectional, which IS A bad look for the SAC...no other way to slice it. Edited September 22, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 52 minutes ago, Temptation said: I’ve heard this before. I was just responding to DT’s comment that the “gap is closing fast”...I don’t agree with that part and think Noblesville could be competitive in the sectional, which IS A bad look for the SAC...no other way to slice it. Wish in one hand, sh_t in the other. See which one fills up faster. Noblesville would finish somewhere between 6-8 in the SAC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 8 hours ago, Staxawax said: They actually play all 9 weeks in conference. The HCC did this from ‘06 - ‘13. It makes it impossible for the algorithm to rate teams until tournament play. Sagarin continues all the way through to the championship, so remaining teams each week continue to be rated. I mistyped 9 weeks and couldn’t edit. My point was that because of the conference schedule it’s impossible for the algorithm to rate teams until playoffs. And because of the SAC schedule taking up the entire regular season there is no way for the teams to be ranked until the playoff run. That said, it’s not the fault of Sagarin. Neither is the algorithm faulty, computers stupid (or similar description), etc. Any algorithm is going to require “connections”. In playing a completely internalized regular season schedule (which is fine) by definition you effectively don’t participate in the analysis/algorithm My point is and was don’t whine about a system not ranking your team that can’t possibly analyze/evaluate your teams at this point because of the decision your team(s) made by their scheduling to effectively not participate in said analysis/algorithm UNTIL the post season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 11 hours ago, Rodney said: An absolute embarrassment that 1a schools are being ranked anywhere other than 'should not be playing football', let alone over homestead Tell that to the Kiser kid who is playing at ND now. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 23 minutes ago, BTF said: Wish in one hand, sh_t in the other. See which one fills up faster. Noblesville would finish somewhere between 6-8 in the SAC. I don’t have to do either. This will be played out in a few weeks. You seem pretty confident. The way Carroll, Snider and Homestead are rolling the “6-8” teams in the SAC means you’re willing to give me Noblesville +35 I assume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Adding one more thing before I am accused of regional bias... I want it known that I think highly of the top three 6a teams in the SAC as I ranked Homestead 7th in my GID submission whereas Snider and Carroll are just outside of my top ten (easily top 15). I think all three would be favorites over Noblesville but not by a wide margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 4 hours ago, Temptation said: Adding one more thing before I am accused of regional bias... I want it known that I think highly of the top three 6a teams in the SAC as I ranked Homestead 7th in my GID submission whereas Snider and Carroll are just outside of my top ten (easily top 15). I think all three would be favorites over Noblesville but not by a wide margin. Very kind of you to put Snider in your Top 15. Thank you. So Fishers, Westfield, and Zionsville are capable of beating Noblesville by a wide margin, but not Snider, Carroll, or Homestead? Sorry, but...........................regional bias. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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