Kickoffs

[Trojanmp52]

Should they change the kickoff rule?I know I like the way it is but here is a few changes I thought about.

1. No automatic touch back it the balls goes into the end zone theycan bring it out

2 Fair catch inside the 20, if the receiving team called for a fair change and successful does just that they get the ball at the 20:just like a touch back

3 Go crazy and change it to the way the nfl does it, I know a lot of people do not like but, it has grown on me.  Just not sure it need to be in high school level

4 Do nothing leave it the way it is

[Sparty]

4

NFL rule is absolutely RIDICULOUS.

[wabashalwaysfights]

16 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Should they change the kickoff rule?I know I like the way it is but here is a few changes I thought about.

1. No automatic touch back it the balls goes into the end zone theycan bring it out

2 Fair catch inside the 20, if the receiving team called for a fair change and successful does just that they get the ball at the 20:just like a touch back

3 Go crazy and change it to the way the nfl does it, I know a lot of people do not like but, it has grown on me.  Just not sure it need to be in high school level

4 Do nothing leave it the way it is

At the 1A level especially, the NFL rule is DOA. Kickers at that level tend to be very inconsistent from year to year. Personally, I've coached kids ranging in ability from 5 yards and in to can barely keep a basic squib kick in bounds. Not that I dislike the NFL rules, I agree with you that it has grown on me, but this one is just not possible. 

 

Your first two proposals are fine I suppose, but I have a completely separate issue on kickoffs altogether which honestly makes me a bit apathetic about the original post and that is this: can that state please, please clarify the "pop-up" kickoff rules? I believe I have sought explanation on this issue here before, but that is not what I seek here. In this case, I just want the IHSAA to clarify the rule and put it in language that is easier for officials to convey. Since this rule was put into place some 7 or so years ago, I have asked about 10-15 officials to clarify it for me and I have gotten as many explanations back, including, hilariously enough, multiple explanations from the same officiating crews. Personally, I have never come across a question where I have not been able to find something resembling a consensus, and honestly, it's hugely frustrating.

Apologies: I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it's kickoff related and has driven me nuts for years at this point.

[RegionFBFan]

4

In high school, most kick offs are returnable meaning outside of endzone which makes it exciting. And for those schools that have kickers that can put them in the endzone, what a weapon. Make teams start from 20. 

[Flyingangel]

On 6/27/2025 at 7:25 PM, Trojanmp52 said:

Should they change the kickoff rule?I know I like the way it is but here is a few changes I thought about.

1. No automatic touch back it the balls goes into the end zone theycan bring it out

2 Fair catch inside the 20, if the receiving team called for a fair change and successful does just that they get the ball at the 20:just like a touch back

3 Go crazy and change it to the way the nfl does it, I know a lot of people do not like but, it has grown on me.  Just not sure it need to be in high school level

4 Do nothing leave it the way it is

I love the nfl new kickoff. I think we need to adopt that for these kids. Makes the returns more exciting 

[Sparty]

With the new NFL KO, it eliminates the surprise on side kick.  

[JustRules]

On 6/28/2025 at 1:21 PM, wabashalwaysfights said:

At the 1A level especially, the NFL rule is DOA. Kickers at that level tend to be very inconsistent from year to year. Personally, I've coached kids ranging in ability from 5 yards and in to can barely keep a basic squib kick in bounds. Not that I dislike the NFL rules, I agree with you that it has grown on me, but this one is just not possible. 

 

Your first two proposals are fine I suppose, but I have a completely separate issue on kickoffs altogether which honestly makes me a bit apathetic about the original post and that is this: can that state please, please clarify the "pop-up" kickoff rules? I believe I have sought explanation on this issue here before, but that is not what I seek here. In this case, I just want the IHSAA to clarify the rule and put it in language that is easier for officials to convey. Since this rule was put into place some 7 or so years ago, I have asked about 10-15 officials to clarify it for me and I have gotten as many explanations back, including, hilariously enough, multiple explanations from the same officiating crews. Personally, I have never come across a question where I have not been able to find something resembling a consensus, and honestly, it's hugely frustrating.

Apologies: I don't mean to hijack this thread, but it's kickoff related and has driven me nuts for years at this point.

Not sure why you would be getting different rules from officials. It's pretty straightforward. A ball kicked immediately into the ground and then bounces high in the air is a dead ball and a foul for an illegal pop-up kick. There is some judgement in terms what what is high in the air. A good guideline I've heard is well over the head of the player's head. Another guideline is if the ball will not come down before the kicking team gets there, it's a pop-up kick. This allows for the kick that maybe 6-7 feet off the ground but still mostly a line drive and reach the receiving team before the kicking team is a couple yards beyond their free kick line. The intent of the rule is to protect the front line returners who could be looking up to catch the ball while getting blasted by the kicking team.

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, JustRules said:

The intent of the rule is to protect the front line returners who could be looking up to catch the ball while getting blasted by the kicking team.

This is the rule book definition of a defenseless player. The rules makers don’t want a play which, by its very nature, generates defenseless players. It’s all about risk minimization.

[oldtimeqb]

On 6/29/2025 at 12:36 AM, Flyingangel said:

I love the nfl new kickoff. I think we need to adopt that for these kids. Makes the returns more exciting 

I agree that I like the new NFL rule. Get rid of surprise onsides and 40 yard sprints just to run into another player. The idea of a ‘landing zone’ for a HS kicker is where I think the modification needs to be made. I’ve seen plenty of kickers at the varsity and lower levels who have no idea where it will go when they kick it.

I also love the 4th and 15 instead of the obvious onside. I would rather have defensive players out there rather than every WR, RB, and maybe even QB trying to field a kick to preserve a win. 

[Sparty]

By taking out the surprise on side kick eliminates potential momentum shifts (see New Orleans vs Indy SB).  If I were a betting person, I’d say the old kick offs will be returning sooner rather than later.  

Push the kicking team back to the 20 on kick offs.  

[Sparty]

With how strong these kicker’s legs have become, you will still have touchbacks (saving players from “running into each other”——which is a vital part of football we need not forget), more kick returns and have the ability to surprise on side, but with more “penalty” should you not recover.  

[Flyingangel]

3 hours ago, Sparty said:

By taking out the surprise on side kick eliminates potential momentum shifts (see New Orleans vs Indy SB).  If I were a betting person, I’d say the old kick offs will be returning sooner rather than later.  

Push the kicking team back to the 20 on kick offs.  

It’s highly unlikely as they changed this to allow more kickoff returns and returns are up over 60%! 
 

also the owners and a lot of players are said to love the new kickoff as it allows for more chance to return for a TD. 

[Sparty]

1 hour ago, Flyingangel said:

It’s highly unlikely as they changed this to allow more kickoff returns and returns are up over 60%! 
 

also the owners and a lot of players are said to love the new kickoff as it allows for more chance to return for a TD. 

Interesting.  I didn’t see a single KO return for a TD with the new rules and A LOT of touchbacks 

[Flyingangel]

1 hour ago, Sparty said:

Interesting.  I didn’t see a single KO return for a TD with the new rules and A LOT of touchbacks 

There were 7 last season compared to 4 the year prior.

 

touchback rating in 2023 was 74%. Which was a record high for nfl
 

compared to 2024 it was 61% lowest in last decade almost. 
 

avg return 

2023: 23 yards a kick return 

2024: 29 yards a return or something like that. 
 

the new kickoff works in every aspect they wanted it to work. And they are considering now penalizing teams for putting it in end zone. It was a rule discussed this offseason but was tabled for December???

[wabashalwaysfights]

On 6/29/2025 at 2:50 PM, JustRules said:

Not sure why you would be getting different rules from officials. It's pretty straightforward. A ball kicked immediately into the ground and then bounces high in the air is a dead ball and a foul for an illegal pop-up kick. There is some judgement in terms what what is high in the air. A good guideline I've heard is well over the head of the player's head. Another guideline is if the ball will not come down before the kicking team gets there, it's a pop-up kick. This allows for the kick that maybe 6-7 feet off the ground but still mostly a line drive and reach the receiving team before the kicking team is a couple yards beyond their free kick line. The intent of the rule is to protect the front line returners who could be looking up to catch the ball while getting blasted by the kicking team.

 

On 6/29/2025 at 4:18 PM, Bobref said:

This is the rule book definition of a defenseless player. The rules makers don’t want a play which, by its very nature, generates defenseless players. It’s all about risk minimization.

I always want to keep kids safe on the field and understand the intent of the rule completely. That said, what we called a "sky kick" did not involve bouncing the ball off the turf at all. Bear in mind, we were really only able to do this effectively for a few years when we had a solid kicker, but the set up looked something like this: the kicker would kick the ball as high in the air as he could, aiming for approximately the opposite 40 yardline, aiming for somewhere between the numbers and the sideline. Again I emphasize, he would not bounce the ball off the turf, just kick it straight up in the air off the tee. The purpose was to either catch a team bailing early and cover the ball, force them to botch the fielding of the kick and generate a turnoved that way, or force the opponent to fair catch the ball and we just take the field position hit. It was high risk for us because of the likelihood of a kick our of bounds (which did happen some) and the field position we would give up. And it was pretty good for us: we forced a few turnovers and forced teams to game plan out kick off team more, which was kind of the point. We even saw several teams in our conference copy cat us, which since imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, I took as a compliment. We even had a team beat us at our own game twice in one game on the same kid: frustrating for us, but good on them. 

When the new rule got put in place, I asked why we were not allowed to perform that type of kick and I was actually told by that crew the exact opposite of what has been relayed here. He said, if your kicked one hops it and it goes that high you're good. We tried that later in the year (not nearly as effective by the way) and was told what has been relayed here, much to my great confusion. We took it out of the playbook at that point, but I have continued to chat officials up about it just as a curiosity. I've had guys tell me that this type of kick is illegal under any circumstance, bounce or no bounce, I've had guys tell me it has to travel a certain distance down the field, I've had guys tell me it is 100% a judgement call, I've had guys tell me that it technically doesn't break the rule but violates the "spirit of the rule." 

And here's the thing: I'm good either way, I just want to know whether it's legal or not. It seems to me that the "spirit" of the rule, as Bobref indicates, is "this type of kick (bounce or no) is too dangerous, so we want it out." That's fine, I disagree, but that's fine. Then just do what the UFL does: NFL style kickoffs and 4th and whatever to retain possession in the 4th quarter only. As I've said, the NFL style kickoff is difficult at the 1A level, but I suppose some kind of adjustment could be made. 

[btownqbcoach1]

On 6/30/2025 at 2:40 PM, Sparty said:

Interesting.  I didn’t see a single KO return for a TD with the new rules and A LOT of touchbacks 

You didn't pay attention. Plus considerably less TBs. 

Either way, dont need the rule in HS, but for the NFL its fantastic and better than the alternative (which was no KOs at all)

[Sparty]

29 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

You didn't pay attention. Plus considerably less TBs. 

Either way, dont need the rule in HS, but for the NFL its fantastic and better than the alternative (which was no KOs at all)

I paid as much attention as I could.  I will admit I was busy giving back to the future HS FB players on most Sundays.  
 

Your opinion is yours.  As mine is mine.  
 

Have a good one

32 minutes ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

You didn't pay attention. Plus considerably less TBs. 

Either way, dont need the rule in HS, but for the NFL its fantastic and better than the alternative (which was no KOs at all)

How do you address taking out surprise onside kicks in the NFL?

[Flyingangel]

1 hour ago, btownqbcoach1 said:

You didn't pay attention. Plus considerably less TBs. 

Either way, dont need the rule in HS, but for the NFL its fantastic and better than the alternative (which was no KOs at all)

It makes allot of sense to bring it to high school especially if college adopts it. Personally hate all kickoffs and think it should be taken out the game 

[tango]

I hate that the surprise onside KO is gone from the NFL. It added a little bit of intrigue. And heck, the solo one against the Texans in 2014 is easily Pat McAfee's greatest  contribution to football, not counting the drunken BR canal swim, I guess...

[Jays]

3 minutes ago, tango said:

I hate that the surprise onside KO is gone from the NFL. It added a little bit of intrigue. And heck, the solo one against the Texans in 2014 is easily Pat McAfee's greatest  contribution to football, not counting the drunken BR canal swim, I guess...

Alleged swim

[foxbat]

On 6/30/2025 at 8:12 PM, wabashalwaysfights said:

 

I always want to keep kids safe on the field and understand the intent of the rule completely. That said, what we called a "sky kick" did not involve bouncing the ball off the turf at all. Bear in mind, we were really only able to do this effectively for a few years when we had a solid kicker, but the set up looked something like this: the kicker would kick the ball as high in the air as he could, aiming for approximately the opposite 40 yardline, aiming for somewhere between the numbers and the sideline. Again I emphasize, he would not bounce the ball off the turf, just kick it straight up in the air off the tee.

...

When the new rule got put in place, I asked why we were not allowed to perform that type of kick and I was actually told by that crew the exact opposite of what has been relayed here. He said, if your kicked one hops it and it goes that high you're good. We tried that later in the year (not nearly as effective by the way) and was told what has been relayed here, much to my great confusion. We took it out of the playbook at that point, but I have continued to chat officials up about it just as a curiosity. I've had guys tell me that this type of kick is illegal under any circumstance, bounce or no bounce, I've had guys tell me it has to travel a certain distance down the field, I've had guys tell me it is 100% a judgement call, I've had guys tell me that it technically doesn't break the rule but violates the "spirit of the rule." 

 

My son pulled off one of these flawlessly about three seasons back, but the only provision on the sky kick is that it had to either touch a player after the minimum 10-yard travel or had to touch the ground before the kicking team could touch the ball.  Unfortunately for my son's team, the gunner on the opposite side of the field got overly excited and jumped up and plucked the ball out of the air, after it had traveled about 12 yards, but before it touched a receiving player or the ground.  Result was receiving team possession and a costly 15-yard penalty tacked on. 

2 hours ago, Flyingangel said:

It makes allot of sense to bring it to high school especially if college adopts it. Personally hate all kickoffs and think it should be taken out the game 

Absolutely love them, but might be biased a bit as my son was a kicker.  Loved the opportunities on both side of the ball to swing momentum in a lightening strike.  Whether it was a receiving team taking it back to the house, watching a well-placed kick that helped pin a receiving team on the sideline, or the kicking team executing a perfect onside kick ... including seeing a kicker recover his own onside kick, by design.

[Sparty]

Good topic.  Good discussions.  

[wabashalwaysfights]

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

My son pulled off one of these flawlessly about three seasons back, but the only provision on the sky kick is that it had to either touch a player after the minimum 10-yard travel or had to touch the ground before the kicking team could touch the ball.  Unfortunately for my son's team, the gunner on the opposite side of the field got overly excited and jumped up and plucked the ball out of the air, after it had traveled about 12 yards, but before it touched a receiving player or the ground.  Result was receiving team possession and a costly 15-yard penalty tacked on.

High risk, high reward. We pulled if off flawlessly once, and I do mean exact to the way I installed it, possession on the opponents 40. We did however get several botched fielding attempts that we recovered. But, teams caught on and coached their kids up; touché.

[burgboyww]

Think it is just fine the way we have it.

I could almost be convinced of that fair catch tweak, take it at the 20 when inside the 20. Player safety and all that, eliminate trying to field a ball that you thought was going out for a TB and dies at the two. Oh sh*t moment right there and potentially dangerous because of the surprise and distance/speed/force after defenders sprinting  50+ yards 

Still rewards the weapon of a kicker you have, a lot of high school teams struggle to go 80 yards on a drive. Hell I’d put it in the stat book as a TB is called. 

[JustRules]

On 6/29/2025 at 4:18 PM, Bobref said:

This is the rule book definition of a defenseless player. The rules makers don’t want a play which, by its very nature, generates defenseless players. It’s all about risk minimization.

He could still be hit hard with a legal wrap up tackle. The better way to treat this is for the pop-up kick to be the same as a pooch kick that never hit the ground. The return team could still signal for a fair catch. They would be protected from being hit until the ball is caught just like any other kick. If the kicking team catches it in flight, it would be KCI. It saves time from having to stop the game for penalty enforcement and lining up for a new kick.