End of game

[Trojanmp52]

This a question I been what to ask and if the call was right then I would tell my team to do it if needed cg vs wc end of the half. Wc is stoped sort or the of the line to gain on 3rd down time is run out they line and spike the ball to stop it but it 4th down turn offer on downs, but flag on play eligible pro on wc. The move the ball back 5 yards and wc get 4th down again is that right call and if so I would do that ever time I need to get one more play on a drive late in the half or game 

 

Edited September 11, 2025 by Trojanmp52

[JustRules]

I have no idea was play eligible pro is. Whatever it is though, the offended team has the option to start the clock on the snap. If this is a dead ball foul no time would come off the clock. If it was a live ball foul and they spiked it, 1 or 2 seconds may come off. If the crew determines the team is doing this intentionally, they have the ability to apply any penalty they felt appropriate. Bottom line, whatever foul you are referring to would not allow a team to continually foul to burn significant clock time.

[US31]

10 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

This a question I been what to ask and if the call was right then I would tell my team to do it if needed cg vs wc end of the half. Wc is stoped sort or the of the line to gain on 3rd down time is run out they line and spike the ball to stop it but it 4th down turn offer on downs, but flag on play eligible pro on wc. The move the ball back 5 yards and wc get 4th down again is that right call and if so I would do that ever time I need to get one more play on a drive late in the half or game 

 

I don't know how many times I've read this...I still can't follow whats going on.

[tango]

1 hour ago, US31 said:

I don't know how many times I've read this...I still can't follow whats going on.

Me neither.

[Donnie Baker]

Not even Donnie Baker could butcher a post like that. I gotta go 

[First_Backer_Inside]

I think he's going for illegal procedure is maybe what he's going for?

[Trojanmp52]

Sorry it late and of lack of sleep let me rephrase 

end of half team one has the ball on 3rd and fails to get a first down as time is running down the line to run, but instead of running a play they spike the ball on 4th down with should have been turnover on down.  But a flag was throw for penalty on the offense. So instead of turn over on downs it lost of 5 yards and they keep the ball to run another play. One is that the right call and 2 if that is the right call that is a heck of a cheat code

[Trojanmp52]

4 minutes ago, First_Backer_Inside said:

I think he's going for illegal procedure is maybe what he's going for?

 

1 hour ago, Donnie Baker said:

Not even Donnie Baker could butcher a post like that. I gotta go 

 

1 hour ago, tango said:

Me neither.

 

3 hours ago, US31 said:

I don't know how many times I've read this...I still can't follow whats going on.

 

13 hours ago, JustRules said:

I have no idea was play eligible pro is. Whatever it is though, the offended team has the option to start the clock on the snap. If this is a dead ball foul no time would come off the clock. If it was a live ball foul and they spiked it, 1 or 2 seconds may come off. If the crew determines the team is doing this intentionally, they have the ability to apply any penalty they felt appropriate. Bottom line, whatever foul you are referring to would not allow a team to continually foul to burn significant clock time.

Sorry it was late and lack of sleep thank your trying to understand me and how my brian works some times

[5GetsYou1]

I believe this is the series of plays being discussed, in case the timestamp doesn't work it is at 1:12:27.

From what I see, this is what happened:

• Warren Central was stopped short of the goal line on 3rd Down, running clock
• Warren Central tries to spike the ball on 4th down
• False Start is called on Warren Central
• During discussion Personal Foul is called on Center Grove
• They put 1.5 seconds on the clock and play 4th down with a dead clock

I have no idea what the discussion on the filed was, but this is for sure an odd sequence. 

 

 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Sorry it late and of lack of sleep let me rephrase 

end of half team one has the ball on 3rd and fails to get a first down as time is running down the line to run, but instead of running a play they spike the ball on 4th down with should have been turnover on down.  But a flag was throw for penalty on the offense. So instead of turn over on downs it lost of 5 yards and they keep the ball to run another play. One is that the right call and 2 if that is the right call that is a heck of a cheat code

I’m still not sure what your question is. Are you asking whether it was, in fact, a false start? Or are you asking whether the ball should have gone over on downs?

[Trojanmp52]

Sorry my neurological thinks at this point of testing and showing nothing that I might cte. In my head it sounds right and looking even reading my self it does as well so sorry if does not come across well. I am ask one if it should  not just been turn over on downs and second if it is the correct call then that is a loophole in the rules. 

[Bobref]

18 minutes ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Sorry my neurological thinks at this point of testing and showing nothing that I might cte. In my head it sounds right and looking even reading my self it does as well so sorry if does not come across well. I am ask one if it should  not just been turn over on downs and second if it is the correct call then that is a loophole in the rules. 

I certainly wouldn’t call it a loophole. A false start is a dead ball foul, so anything that happened after the false start is meaningless. It can’t be a turnover on downs, because they haven’t yet played 4th down. Having said that, there are a few things I don’t understand yet, and which could represent fairly significant officiating errors.

They announced a false start against the offense, and a personal foul against the defense. Since a false start is a dead ball foul, the ball never became alive. So, the personal foul on the defense must have also been a dead ball foul. It appears that they offset the two fouls. However, dead ball fouls are not combined to make a double foul. They are enforced separately and in the order they occurred. In this case, they should have gone back 5 yds. for the false start, and then enforced the personal foul against the defense half the distance. It would be fourth down there.

Perhaps more significantly, they put 1.5 sec. back on the clock, which was correct. But the Referee should have started the clock on his ready for play signal not on the snap. The last play ended up with the runner down inbounds and the clock running. Therefore, after the penalty was enforced the Referee should have wound the clock after marking the ball ready for play. With only 1.5 sec. on the clock, that’s a major error.

Disclaimer: There’s a lot video doesn’t show, and there may be things not shown which might affect the above analysis.

[JustRules]

I agree with Bobref and had typed a similar response until I saw he replied. If they false started before they were able to get everyone set, they did find a loophole there. This type of play is exactly why the NFL and NCAA have a 10-second runoff at the end of each half. That would have applied here and unless WC had a time out left (I assume they didn't since they didn't use it after the runner was tackled in bounds), the half would be over. I'm not sure if the NFHS rules will be updated to something similar, but it's not relevant today.

I believe the reason the game clock didn't start on the signal was because the second foul was against the defense. That gives the offense the option to start a live clock on the snap. CG had the option on the clock because of the false start. But then due to the CG foul, that gave WC the clock option. I assume they chose snap. Very strange situation, but it's possible the crew got it right. It just took some time because of the complexity. 

[Trojanmp52]

The reason I say it is a loophole is the offense has time to call a play or like in this situation get there kicking team out there during the time it takes to get the call made and ball moved ready for play.  I believe in the nfl if this would happen there is a 10 second runoff not sure about college. The plenty on CG was a coach on the sideline talking to the official or should say he probably was yelling, not sure what was said. 

[Irishman]

4 hours ago, 5GetsYou1 said:

I believe this is the series of plays being discussed, in case the timestamp doesn't work it is at 1:12:27.

From what I see, this is what happened:

• Warren Central was stopped short of the goal line on 3rd Down, running clock
• Warren Central tries to spike the ball on 4th down
• False Start is called on Warren Central
• During discussion Personal Foul is called on Center Grove
• They put 1.5 seconds on the clock and play 4th down with a dead clock

I have no idea what the discussion on the filed was, but this is for sure an odd sequence. 

 

 

Looks like a flag was thrown for something on the CG sideline. My only guess is a player did not get off the field? Because the ball is moved back to the original spot. Here is the flag near the CG sideline. 

[Bobref]

13 hours ago, JustRules said:

I agree with Bobref and had typed a similar response until I saw he replied. If they false started before they were able to get everyone set, they did find a loophole there. This type of play is exactly why the NFL and NCAA have a 10-second runoff at the end of each half. That would have applied here and unless WC had a time out left (I assume they didn't since they didn't use it after the runner was tackled in bounds), the half would be over. I'm not sure if the NFHS rules will be updated to something similar, but it's not relevant today.

I believe the reason the game clock didn't start on the signal was because the second foul was against the defense. That gives the offense the option to start a live clock on the snap. CG had the option on the clock because of the false start. But then due to the CG foul, that gave WC the clock option. I assume they chose snap. Very strange situation, but it's possible the crew got it right. It just took some time because of the complexity. 

Since we have incomplete information, it is possible they got it right. But I’m racking my brain for a way to reconcile what they did enforcement-wise, since the 2 penalties announced were false start on the offense, and personal foul on the defense. If true, there is no way those penalties offset one another, yet there appeared to be no yardage enforcement. As I said, the video doesn’t show everything, and we are missing some information.

[1st_and_10]

13 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

The reason I say it is a loophole is the offense has time to call a play or like in this situation get there kicking team out there during the time it takes to get the call made and ball moved ready for play.  I believe in the nfl if this would happen there is a 10 second runoff not sure about college. The plenty on CG was a coach on the sideline talking to the official or should say he probably was yelling, not sure what was said. 

If there wasn't a defensive penalty, the clock would have started right after placing the ball 5 yards back because the ball carrier was tackled in bounds.  The ONLY reason the clock stopped and was started on the snap was due to the defensive penalty.  

[5GetsYou1]

3 hours ago, Bobref said:

Since we have incomplete information, it is possible they got it right. But I’m racking my brain for a way to reconcile what they did enforcement-wise, since the 2 penalties announced were false start on the offense, and personal foul on the defense. If true, there is no way those penalties offset one another, yet there appeared to be no yardage enforcement. As I said, the video doesn’t show everything, and we are missing some information.

This was my thinking as well, and as @Irishman pointed out, the flag was by Center Grove's sideline. Which makes it even stranger, this would suggest a sideline warning, illegal substitution, or unsportsmanlike conduct over a personal foul on a dead ball foul about 20 yards away from the line of scrimmage. 

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, 5GetsYou1 said:

This was my thinking as well, and as @Irishman pointed out, the flag was by Center Grove's sideline. Which makes it even stranger, this would suggest a sideline warning, illegal substitution, or unsportsmanlike conduct over a personal foul on a dead ball foul about 20 yards away from the line of scrimmage. 

I count 11 on defense, so it’s probably not illegal substitution. And if it were UNS, then it would have to be enforced. So, my money is on a sideline warning. But it would have to be their 2nd, since they need a distance enforcement to offset the false start yardage.

[Irishman]

3 hours ago, Bobref said:

I count 11 on defense, so it’s probably not illegal substitution. And if it were UNS, then it would have to be enforced. So, my money is on a sideline warning. But it would have to be their 2nd, since they need a distance enforcement to offset the false start yardage.

My other thought was that...and that maybe they just marked it off half the distance?? 

[Bobref]

1 hour ago, Irishman said:

My other thought was that...and that maybe they just marked it off half the distance?? 

They should have done that, but the numbers don’t quite add up. If that’s what they did, they were about a yard off.

[JustRules]

15 hours ago, Bobref said:

Since we have incomplete information, it is possible they got it right. But I’m racking my brain for a way to reconcile what they did enforcement-wise, since the 2 penalties announced were false start on the offense, and personal foul on the defense. If true, there is no way those penalties offset one another, yet there appeared to be no yardage enforcement. As I said, the video doesn’t show everything, and we are missing some information.

They didn't offset. They went back 5 yards from the 6 to the 11 and then half the distance the other way to the 5.5. The announcers said they offset which was incorrect.