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Bobref

What We Can Learn from MLB

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Big changes to the MLB playoff process are being proposed now. What does that have to do with Indiana high school football? It just confirms something that some of us have been saying for years.

If you want to make the regular season games more exciting, ignite fan interest, keep people and teams engaged to the greatest extent possible, you take steps to make those regular season games more meaningful with respect to post-season opportunity. MLB has obviously realized that changing the playoff protocol is a legitimate and effective way to do that. In order to make regular season games more meaningful, they are proposing changes that would keep more teams fighting for more playoff spots. It would increase playoff participation from 10 to 14 teams. The stated purpose is to make the stakes for regular season games higher, to make for more competitive games, greater "buzz" and, of course, the increased revenue that flows from that. 

This teaches us that the most sophisticated minds in sports see using the playoff structure as a way to improve the regular season … just what we should be doing in Indiana with at least playoff seeding, and better still, a playoff qualification format.

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4 hours ago, Bobref said:

Big changes to the MLB playoff process are being proposed now. What does that have to do with Indiana high school football? It just confirms something that some of us have been saying for years.

If you want to make the regular season games more exciting, ignite fan interest, keep people and teams engaged to the greatest extent possible, you take steps to make those regular season games more meaningful with respect to post-season opportunity. MLB has obviously realized that changing the playoff protocol is a legitimate and effective way to do that. In order to make regular season games more meaningful, they are proposing changes that would keep more teams fighting for more playoff spots. It would increase playoff participation from 10 to 14 teams. The stated purpose is to make the stakes for regular season games higher, to make for more competitive games, greater "buzz" and, of course, the increased revenue that flows from that. 

This teaches us that the most sophisticated minds in sports see using the playoff structure as a way to improve the regular season … just what we should be doing in Indiana with at least playoff seeding, and better still, a playoff qualification format.

I briefly heard a bit about this today. 

Just for MLB, did they mention anything about shortening the regular season?

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5 hours ago, Bobref said:

Big changes to the MLB playoff process are being proposed now. What does that have to do with Indiana high school football? It just confirms something that some of us have been saying for years.

If you want to make the regular season games more exciting, ignite fan interest, keep people and teams engaged to the greatest extent possible, you take steps to make those regular season games more meaningful with respect to post-season opportunity. MLB has obviously realized that changing the playoff protocol is a legitimate and effective way to do that. In order to make regular season games more meaningful, they are proposing changes that would keep more teams fighting for more playoff spots. It would increase playoff participation from 10 to 14 teams. The stated purpose is to make the stakes for regular season games higher, to make for more competitive games, greater "buzz" and, of course, the increased revenue that flows from that. 

This teaches us that the most sophisticated minds in sports see using the playoff structure as a way to improve the regular season … just what we should be doing in Indiana with at least playoff seeding, and better still, a playoff qualification format.

So just to make sure I am following along I want to make sure I understand your post. You are saying that the MLB proposal of increasing the amount of teams that make the playoffs teaches us that we should reduce the amount of teams that make the playoffs in high school football.

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6 hours ago, Bobref said:

Big changes to the MLB playoff process are being proposed now. What does that have to do with Indiana high school football? It just confirms something that some of us have been saying for years.

If you want to make the regular season games more exciting, ignite fan interest, keep people and teams engaged to the greatest extent possible, you take steps to make those regular season games more meaningful with respect to post-season opportunity. MLB has obviously realized that changing the playoff protocol is a legitimate and effective way to do that. In order to make regular season games more meaningful, they are proposing changes that would keep more teams fighting for more playoff spots. It would increase playoff participation from 10 to 14 teams. The stated purpose is to make the stakes for regular season games higher, to make for more competitive games, greater "buzz" and, of course, the increased revenue that flows from that. 

This teaches us that the most sophisticated minds in sports see using the playoff structure as a way to improve the regular season … just what we should be doing in Indiana with at least playoff seeding, and better still, a playoff qualification format.

I have to respect that somewhere you have a valid point because I know how intelligent you are but trying to make a correlation between mlb and high school football doesn’t make any sense in my opinion. MLB is trying to keep as many teams in the playoff picture as long as possible hoping that not only does it generate more attendance sales in September but also makes the people who already paid for tickets attend the games and spend money. Also teams want more playoff games because of that extra income. 

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12 hours ago, Bobref said:

. . . The stated purpose is to make the stakes for regular season games higher, to make for more competitive games, greater "buzz" and, of course, the increased revenue that flows from that. 

 

Wouldn't it be a zero-sum game where as the 'stakes' and interest increase for one team or a group of teams moving toward qualifying, they would necessarily decrease for teams moving away from qualifying?

Also, how exactly would this make for more competitive games? 

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7 minutes ago, Bullhorn99 said:

Wouldn't it be a zero-sum game where as the 'stakes' and interest increase for one team or a group of teams moving toward qualifying, they would necessarily decrease for teams moving away from qualifying?

Also, how exactly would this make for more competitive games? 

MLB certainly doesn’t think so, and you can bet they’ve done a lot of sophisticated market research before they reached that conclusion. 

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6 hours ago, sr1 said:

So just to make sure I am following along I want to make sure I understand your post. You are saying that the MLB proposal of increasing the amount of teams that make the playoffs teaches us that we should reduce the amount of teams that make the playoffs in high school football.

You can’t possibly be that unaware. Currently, 1 out of 3 MLB teams make the playoffs. This proposal would expand that to just under 50% (14 out of 30) and, thus, keep more teams in contention for the postseason longer, resulting in a better and more competitive regular season. An all-in format doesn’t have any teams “in contention,” because they all make it. Surely you can see the difference?

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When I first read this thread title, the words "Astros" and "Beltran" came to mind.   Bobref took it in a different direction

Major League baseball post season play used to be sacrosanct

There was one division per league, and winning the grueling 154 game schedule won you a league pennant  and a trip to the World Series

When baseball expanded to two divisions per league, still only the four division winners advanced to the post season

Now we have 3 division winners per league, two league wild cards, and it's still not enough

BULL

Hockey and basketball expanded due to popularity.  Baseball grew out of pure demand.  The two are not the same

There is too much roster manipulation that goes on in baseball today, where a mediocre team that is not playoff worthy advances to postseason play because they have two flamethrowers in this era of uber strikeouts

75% of all major League teams were still within playoff contention in the last month of the season.  

Isn't that enough Bob?

These Major League boys celebrate every win like they've just won the Little League World series.  How many Gatorade showers and Jersey tearoffs do we really need to see Bob?

 

I'm reminded of the famous line from Tom Hanks character  as he is shot and dying during the battle with the German tank brigade on the French front.  "Earn it" is what Hanks says to young Daniel Patrick Ryan as he takes his last breath

If we continue to expand and allow more marginal teams in, are they truly "earning" it?

 

 

 

Edited by DT
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4 hours ago, Bobref said:

MLB certainly doesn’t think so, and you can bet they’ve done a lot of sophisticated market research before they reached that conclusion. 

Well, that does respond to either of my questions at all. 

Regardless of what MLB is doing (BIG difference--increasing the number of playoff teams rather that reducing the number of tournament teams), after week six for example, wouldn't a team sitting at 4-2 experience roughly the same amount of increase in 'stakes' and interest as a team sitting at 2-4 a decrease in 'stakes' and interest? 

And if these two teams faced each other in week 7, how would this bring about a more competitive regular season game?

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3 hours ago, DT said:

 

I'm reminded of the famous line from Tom Hanks character  as he is shot and dying during the battle with the German tank brigade on the French front.  "Earn it" is what Hanks says to young Daniel Patrick Ryan as he takes his last breath

If we continue to expand and allow more marginal teams in, are they truly "earning" it?

 

 

 

You of course meant James Francis Ryan. Daniel Patrick was one of his brothers that were killed, I believe. 

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16 hours ago, sr1 said:

So just to make sure I am following along I want to make sure I understand your post. You are saying that the MLB proposal of increasing the amount of teams that make the playoffs teaches us that we should reduce the amount of teams that make the playoffs in high school football.

Yes, and include seeding.  Will make regular season games actually mean something.

 

1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

It's impossible to make 162 games relevant. 

But is it possible to make 9?

 

Edited by Muda69

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5 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

But is it possible to make 9?

I thought your deal was to do away with government schools and their associated sports programs?

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Just now, Impartial_Observer said:

I thought your deal was to do away with government schools and their associated sports programs?

That is the ultimate goal, yes.

Are you going to answer my question or not?

 

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42 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

That is the ultimate goal, yes.

Are you going to answer my question or not?

 

You honestly expect me to say winning doesn't matter?

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16 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

You honestly expect me to say winning doesn't matter?

That seems to be what you are saying with your "162 games" comment.

 

Edited by Muda69

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I am still waiting on long lost Coach G to get me my winnings from like 2008, when I told him why Whitesox would win more games then his Tigers.........   thought I had Free BWS coming my way!!  what's the Juice on that after all these year?? 😎

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25 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

192-9/ pro-HS sure it's the same thing. 

Hey Chief, you made the comment.  Not I.

 

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On 2/12/2020 at 10:24 AM, Garman54 said:

You of course meant James Francis Ryan. Daniel Patrick was one of his brothers that were killed, I believe. 

from Iowa....do you know him?

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I thought conference affiliation did a pretty good job of making regular season games mean something.

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Some people are missing the point. This thread is not about the wisdom of the changes MLB is contemplating. It’s about the fact that a multi-billion dollar organization decided that an effective way to bring more meaning to their regular season is to manipulate the playoff format to make more regular season games have meaningful consequences for the post season. As long as we have an all-in, unseeded tournament, we are denying ourselves the use of the tool that MLB has decided is the most effective way to generate greater interest and excitement in the regular season. A shame that people on here ostensibly to promote the game of high school football don’t — or won’t — recognize the real opportunity cost of the present system.

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13 hours ago, Bobref said:

Some people are missing the point. This thread is not about the wisdom of the changes MLB is contemplating. It’s about the fact that a multi-billion dollar organization decided that an effective way to bring more meaning to their regular season is to manipulate the playoff format to make more regular season games have meaningful consequences for the post season. As long as we have an all-in, unseeded tournament, we are denying ourselves the use of the tool that MLB has decided is the most effective way to generate greater interest and excitement in the regular season. A shame that people on here ostensibly to promote the game of high school football don’t — or won’t — recognize the real opportunity cost of the present system.

I'm scratching my head following your logic a little Bob.  The regular season has always been critical for MLB.  If you didn't have have one of the best records, a team didn't qualify.  So now there will be more teams making it....which many purist believes it dilutes the game.  It will become even easier to make the playoffs and worse records are awarded.

To me, this is more about increasing revenue through more playoff games....games that cost more to attend and TV ratings.  I'm not sure adding more teams to the playoffs makes your argument any more stronger than the old MLB format.

Almost half of the teams makes the playoffs?  On the way to an all-in tournament.......😉

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On 2/11/2020 at 5:05 PM, Bobref said:

Big changes to the MLB playoff process are being proposed now. What does that have to do with Indiana high school football? It just confirms something that some of us have been saying for years.

If you want to make the regular season games more exciting, ignite fan interest, keep people and teams engaged to the greatest extent possible, you take steps to make those regular season games more meaningful with respect to post-season opportunity. MLB has obviously realized that changing the playoff protocol is a legitimate and effective way to do that. In order to make regular season games more meaningful, they are proposing changes that would keep more teams fighting for more playoff spots. It would increase playoff participation from 10 to 14 teams. The stated purpose is to make the stakes for regular season games higher, to make for more competitive games, greater "buzz" and, of course, the increased revenue that flows from that. 

This teaches us that the most sophisticated minds in sports see using the playoff structure as a way to improve the regular season … just what we should be doing in Indiana with at least playoff seeding, and better still, a playoff qualification format.

I get what you're saying, more teams having meaningful games late in the year, instead of the usual 2-3 teams vying for that last playoff spot. But the bottom line is always money isn't it, more playoff ticket sales, more concessions, more advertising at the local venues, and of course the big ticket item, more TV $$$$.  

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